All borders to reopen.
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another high spike in cases and subsequent economic/business ramifications will ultimately spell doom for the current government. My views are not aligned with any political party, just seeing it how it is.
In Mongolia, a couple died of bubonic plague on May 1 after reportedly hunting marmots, large rodents that can harbor
the bacterium that causes the disease, and eating the animal's raw meat and kidneys – which some Mongolians believe is good for their health.
Exfocx sounds appetising. Hmm I wonder if the WHO approve of this new Mongolian franchise. Do you want chips with that. you said that the BP was no longer around, that it was DEAD!
Spanish Flu (Not a Covid) your correct is a H1 N1 strain caused by thousands of soldiers having poor hygiene and eating poorly during the war in freezing cold conditions. Yeah, that would bring a flu on. No problem. It wasn't caused by what you claim. "The war may also have reduced people's resistance to the virus. Some speculate the soldiers' immune systems were weakened by malnourishment, as well as the stresses of combat and chemical attacks, increasing their susceptibility." REDUCED their resistance!
When the war finished they transported the strain everywhere. what, just like cv! Yeah, mass transportation.
"Scientists offer several possible explanations for the high mortality rate of the 1918 influenza pandemic. Some analyses have shown the virus to be particularly deadly because it triggers a cytokine storm, which ravages the stronger immune system of young adults.[6]Oh, that doesn't coincide with your statement?
Note the word "POSSIBLE". So there not really sure. Leave that at that. Oh! a lot of evidence around that good old Vit D can protect you from a cytokine storm. I reckon the soldiers were very very D deficient and when that happens your susceptible to anything. Then what caused otherwise healthy people to die, people with no immune issues?
Viruses are dead cells out in the open until they infiltrate you, agreed. When you sneeze they only live for about 30sec in the open. where did you get this idea from. CV can survive on the surface of different materials from hrs up 3 days.
That's why infection is low in the open and contagious indoors. not for the reasons you give and it depends on the density of people, sports event and your claim is rubbish.
As I said before lockdowns prolong the virus thanks for the discussion There is no evidence AT ALL that supports that!.
the bacterium that causes the disease, and eating the animal's raw meat and kidneys – which some Mongolians believe is good for their health.
Exfocx sounds appetising. Hmm I wonder if the WHO approve of this new Mongolian franchise. Do you want chips with that. you said that the BP was no longer around, that it was DEAD!
Spanish Flu (Not a Covid) your correct is a H1 N1 strain caused by thousands of soldiers having poor hygiene and eating poorly during the war in freezing cold conditions. Yeah, that would bring a flu on. No problem. It wasn't caused by what you claim. "The war may also have reduced people's resistance to the virus. Some speculate the soldiers' immune systems were weakened by malnourishment, as well as the stresses of combat and chemical attacks, increasing their susceptibility." REDUCED their resistance!
When the war finished they transported the strain everywhere. what, just like cv! Yeah, mass transportation.
"Scientists offer several possible explanations for the high mortality rate of the 1918 influenza pandemic. Some analyses have shown the virus to be particularly deadly because it triggers a cytokine storm, which ravages the stronger immune system of young adults.[6]Oh, that doesn't coincide with your statement?
Note the word "POSSIBLE". So there not really sure. Leave that at that. Oh! a lot of evidence around that good old Vit D can protect you from a cytokine storm. I reckon the soldiers were very very D deficient and when that happens your susceptible to anything. Then what caused otherwise healthy people to die, people with no immune issues?
Viruses are dead cells out in the open until they infiltrate you, agreed. When you sneeze they only live for about 30sec in the open. where did you get this idea from. CV can survive on the surface of different materials from hrs up 3 days.
That's why infection is low in the open and contagious indoors. not for the reasons you give and it depends on the density of people, sports event and your claim is rubbish.
As I said before lockdowns prolong the virus thanks for the discussion There is no evidence AT ALL that supports that!.
Last edited by exfocx; 17th Sep 2020 at 00:45. Reason: move a sentence
You’re leaving out a very important part of those predictions, which said the death toll would be huge if we didn’t take any precautions. Australians ended up taking it seriously (most anyway).
Have a look at the US where they took a half assed approach. Average flu year usually has a toll of 12,000-61,000 dead. The Covid toll so far is almost 200,000 after less than 6 months, and outside of the traditional flu season. Half the country isn’t taking it seriously. And their economy is in the toilet too, and society divided.
Have a look at the US where they took a half assed approach. Average flu year usually has a toll of 12,000-61,000 dead. The Covid toll so far is almost 200,000 after less than 6 months, and outside of the traditional flu season. Half the country isn’t taking it seriously. And their economy is in the toilet too, and society divided.
You’re leaving out a very important part of those predictions, which said the death toll would be huge if we didn’t take any precautions..................................
Have a look at the US where they took a half assed approach. Average flu year usually has a toll of 12,000-61,000 dead. The Covid toll so far is almost 200,000 after less than 6 months, and outside of the traditional flu season. Half the country isn’t taking it seriously. And their economy is in the toilet too, and society divided.
Have a look at the US where they took a half assed approach. Average flu year usually has a toll of 12,000-61,000 dead. The Covid toll so far is almost 200,000 after less than 6 months, and outside of the traditional flu season. Half the country isn’t taking it seriously. And their economy is in the toilet too, and society divided.
Exactly! Everyone who argues the point always seem to conveniently leave this out.
Although the 'roadmap' out of Vic restrictions is based on the best available scientific models, I personally believe that many of the restrictions have been ultra-conservative for political reasons.
Another high spike in cases and subsequent economic/business ramifications will ultimately spell doom for the current government. My views are not aligned with any political party, just seeing it how it is.
Another high spike in cases and subsequent economic/business ramifications will ultimately spell doom for the current government. My views are not aligned with any political party, just seeing it how it is.
Have a look at the US where they took a half assed approach. Average flu year usually has a toll of 12,000-61,000 dead. The Covid toll so far is almost 200,000 after less than 6 months, and outside of the traditional flu season. Half the country isn’t taking it seriously. And their economy is in the toilet too, and society divided.
But you will acknowledge that most 'flu deaths are never diagnosed. No one goes around nursing homes doing nasal PCR for 'flu - so all those people died of "old age" or "dementia", or something else. Thousands of people die from the 'flu each year and are never included in the stats.
The most honest data is total deaths. There has been a spike in total deaths, and this is due to COVID. But the harder we have looked for COVID, the more we have seen it.
True. Partially.
But you will acknowledge that most 'flu deaths are never diagnosed. No one goes around nursing homes doing nasal PCR for 'flu - so all those people died of "old age" or "dementia", or something else. Thousands of people die from the 'flu each year and are never included in the stats.
The most honest data is total deaths. There has been a spike in total deaths, and this is due to COVID. But the harder we have looked for COVID, the more we have seen it.
But you will acknowledge that most 'flu deaths are never diagnosed. No one goes around nursing homes doing nasal PCR for 'flu - so all those people died of "old age" or "dementia", or something else. Thousands of people die from the 'flu each year and are never included in the stats.
The most honest data is total deaths. There has been a spike in total deaths, and this is due to COVID. But the harder we have looked for COVID, the more we have seen it.
I wouldn't acknowledge that most flu deaths are never diagnosed. I very certain you haven't had anyone close, like your mother for instance, where you would have spent a reasonable amount of time in an aged care home, otherwise you'd know they are VERY aware of flu as a killer of the residents. Talk to any Dr caring for residents in an aged care home and that's what they will tell you.
Now, you say the most honest data is totally deaths etc etc etc. And your public health credentials in data analysis is what again? I'm pretty certain that public health officials have been doing this for a bit longer than anyone on here.
So what you're saying is they subscribed death to anything but flu, they go to all the trouble to to give a cause of death, but for some reason, they ignore the actual cause of death! Really?
I wouldn't acknowledge that most flu deaths are never diagnosed.
I very certain you haven't had anyone close, like your mother for instance, where you would have spent a reasonable amount of time in an aged care home, otherwise you'd know they are VERY aware of flu as a killer of the residents. Talk to any Dr caring for residents in an aged care home and that's what they will tell you.
I don't have to talk to a doctor - I look after patients in nursing homes. I tell the relatives that 'flu was a likely / possible cause of death, but could also have been aspiration, heart attack, stroke, pulmonary embolism - and that I can't be sure without testing.
Official 'flu data for Australia only counts lab confirmed cases. Again, this does not happen in nursing homes.
Have you ever previously seen teams of clinicians swabbing everyone in nursing homes? No, nor have I.
30+ years as a clinician, with some post-grad training in public health
So what you're saying is they subscribed death to anything but flu, they go to all the trouble to to give a cause of death, but for some reason, they ignore the actual cause of death! Really?
I wouldn't acknowledge that most flu deaths are never diagnosed. I very certain you haven't had anyone close, like your mother for instance, where you would have spent a reasonable amount of time in an aged care home, otherwise you'd know they are VERY aware of flu as a killer of the residents. Talk to any Dr caring for residents in an aged care home and that's what they will tell you.
Now, you say the most honest data is totally deaths etc etc etc. And your public health credentials in data analysis is what again? I'm pretty certain that public health officials have been doing this for a bit longer than anyone on here.
I wouldn't acknowledge that most flu deaths are never diagnosed. I very certain you haven't had anyone close, like your mother for instance, where you would have spent a reasonable amount of time in an aged care home, otherwise you'd know they are VERY aware of flu as a killer of the residents. Talk to any Dr caring for residents in an aged care home and that's what they will tell you.
Now, you say the most honest data is totally deaths etc etc etc. And your public health credentials in data analysis is what again? I'm pretty certain that public health officials have been doing this for a bit longer than anyone on here.
I have seen so many "experts" on the media spreading fear with their huge death predictions that didn't come true that you can forgive me for being sceptical when they open their mouths again.
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Most locked down city in the world
Posts: 546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Next patient please.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oz
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are you chaps sure you aren't confusing influenza with pneumonia?
To date there have been 824 deaths attributed to Covid 19 in AUS.
Just saying,......
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oz
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BuzzBox,
not against many of the precautions that the various Governments have taken at all, and in no way a denier....just believe some of the internal Border “closures” and some of the restrictions are over the top and seem simply hardwired to the “statement” that the restrictions are there for the health of that particular States population. .
Take the NT, “closed” borders.....,until the election was over that is. Queensland has an election coming up so easier to hide behind the banner of keeping you safe, magically the $110 Billion State Debt is not an issue and the State Borders open once that election is over.
And what gets me, how can each State have a Chief Medical Officer, the Commonwealth having one as well and they all come up with different restrictions about the same Covid, not like its a Qld Covid vs a NSW Covid vs a WA Covid etc etc.
Sure, by all means the Covid pandemic must be taken seriously, but how about looking at other causes of death at the same time and consider all the issues.
And as I said.....Just saying and ......just having a viewpoint.
not against many of the precautions that the various Governments have taken at all, and in no way a denier....just believe some of the internal Border “closures” and some of the restrictions are over the top and seem simply hardwired to the “statement” that the restrictions are there for the health of that particular States population. .
Take the NT, “closed” borders.....,until the election was over that is. Queensland has an election coming up so easier to hide behind the banner of keeping you safe, magically the $110 Billion State Debt is not an issue and the State Borders open once that election is over.
And what gets me, how can each State have a Chief Medical Officer, the Commonwealth having one as well and they all come up with different restrictions about the same Covid, not like its a Qld Covid vs a NSW Covid vs a WA Covid etc etc.
Sure, by all means the Covid pandemic must be taken seriously, but how about looking at other causes of death at the same time and consider all the issues.
And as I said.....Just saying and ......just having a viewpoint.
This well written NYT may help
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www....erica.amp.html
So we don’t really know how many flu deaths a year - as most of those who are presumed to have died from a flu-related illness don’t get tested and are not reported in official figures.
We don’t know how many cases of COVID there have been in Australia - it likely lies between 70,000 (smh report yesterday) and 500,000 (NSW CHO estimate back in July). Either way, we have missed most infections.
It’s all a bit of a mess, but it is what it is. Things are not black or white. Biological systems are not aircraft, and public health is not CASA.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www....erica.amp.html
So we don’t really know how many flu deaths a year - as most of those who are presumed to have died from a flu-related illness don’t get tested and are not reported in official figures.
We don’t know how many cases of COVID there have been in Australia - it likely lies between 70,000 (smh report yesterday) and 500,000 (NSW CHO estimate back in July). Either way, we have missed most infections.
It’s all a bit of a mess, but it is what it is. Things are not black or white. Biological systems are not aircraft, and public health is not CASA.
This well written NYT may help
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www....erica.amp.html
So we don’t really know how many flu deaths a year - as most of those who are presumed to have died from a flu-related illness don’t get tested and are not reported in official figures.
We don’t know how many cases of COVID there have been in Australia - it likely lies between 70,000 (smh report yesterday) and 500,000 (NSW CHO estimate back in July). Either way, we have missed most infections.
It’s all a bit of a mess, but it is what it is. Things are not black or white. Biological systems are not aircraft, and public health is not CASA.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www....erica.amp.html
So we don’t really know how many flu deaths a year - as most of those who are presumed to have died from a flu-related illness don’t get tested and are not reported in official figures.
We don’t know how many cases of COVID there have been in Australia - it likely lies between 70,000 (smh report yesterday) and 500,000 (NSW CHO estimate back in July). Either way, we have missed most infections.
It’s all a bit of a mess, but it is what it is. Things are not black or white. Biological systems are not aircraft, and public health is not CASA.
Given lots of work places and sports groups have had mandatory testing since about the start - little to no (not aware of a single one) random cases have popped up.
But that is just my reasoning for not believing the estimates.