All borders to reopen.
Ok, then let's look at the Seppo's: 6,587,971 total cases & 196,303 deaths against a population of 328,200,000. 2.00% infected and 0.06% dying from it. If you don't like the Seppo's, pick any country you like and run the same numbers. Here's the UK too: 358,138 Cases, 41,608 deaths against a population of 66,650,000. 0.54% Infected, 0.06% of their population died "from COVID". Maybe another "random-big numbers country" might help seal the deal: Brazil: 4,239,763 cases, 129,575 deaths against a population of 212,559,000. 1.99% infected, 0.06% dying from it. Or WITH COVID might be a more appropriate moniker.
That 0.06% Of Australian's would be 15,300 deaths. Yep, for a notional "average working Aussie". Except the problem is, most of those dying from COVID are not "normal working Aussies", they are "elderly, retired Aussies with Co-Morbidities" and as such, would be "valued" at less, thereby rendering the opening of the economy even more important on a cost/benefit ratio.
EDIT: Just found a newly-released guidance note from the Dept of PM & Cabinet, it's now $4.9M, but also $213,000 per "life year". If someone want's to plug the average age of our COVID fatalities into Excel vs the Average age of death in Australia you might be alarmed at the cost/benefit ratio. IT makes CASA's reasoning to AD's etc look like the Gold-standard!
That 0.06% Of Australian's would be 15,300 deaths. Yep, for a notional "average working Aussie". Except the problem is, most of those dying from COVID are not "normal working Aussies", they are "elderly, retired Aussies with Co-Morbidities" and as such, would be "valued" at less, thereby rendering the opening of the economy even more important on a cost/benefit ratio.
EDIT: Just found a newly-released guidance note from the Dept of PM & Cabinet, it's now $4.9M, but also $213,000 per "life year". If someone want's to plug the average age of our COVID fatalities into Excel vs the Average age of death in Australia you might be alarmed at the cost/benefit ratio. IT makes CASA's reasoning to AD's etc look like the Gold-standard!
All your examples have restrictions in place (that keep numbers lower).
The British government backed a series of measures on Wednesday it hopes will stem a worrying increase in new coronavirus cases, particularly among young adults, including a legally enforced ban on any social gatherings of more than six people in England.
In the biggest reversal of the months-long easing of the lockdown, it said social gatherings in England will be limited to a maximum of six people, either inside or outside of the home. The new limit will be in place from Monday and police will be able to fine, and even arrest, anyone breaching the rules.
Among other measures, Prime Minister Boris Johnson said "COVID-secure marshals" will be introduced to help ensure social distancing in city centres.
Months after it was tabled due to COVID-19, indoor dining is coming back to New York City.
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced on Wednesday that restaurants can resume indoor service on Sept. 30 at 25% capacity and with other safety precautions in place.
With the Covid-19 pandemic in near constant fluctuation in the United States, the 50 states are having to adapt rapidly with their rules and regulations.
If you're planning a family vacation or simply wish to travel to another state, it is important to be updated on the latest statewide regulations. While some US states have no restrictions, all their sites have important Covid-19 safety information, including possible face mask mandates in public setting.
The Brazilian authorities extended the restriction on foreign nationals entering Brazil for 30 more days until September 26. They have also imposed new rules on foreign nationals who come for business/tourism purposes for short stays (up to 90 days) -- they must present proof of medical insurance meeting certain minimum requirements. The Brazilian government has updated the list of locations that can’t receive international flights.
Is ok don't worry about it. I only raised it because it happened over in the QF Group thread but because I didn't entirely disagree didn't bother with it, Then hellfire rained down upon me for daring to suggest that seniority won't play a role in redundancies on this occasion.
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How is NSW not successful? NSW is the only state that is. Its very hard for you accept NSW superiority with the handling of this pandemic. We all know WA would be on their knees borders full open if it were not for the resources sector. No resource in NSW that is comparable to WA but we are coping fine. QLD they are gong down the hole of oblivion without a plan its actually very amusing watching the train wreck that is QLD now.
NSW is the only state that has learned to live with suppress it the original goal agreed by all. All the other states and territories are so $hit scared of not being able to match the capabilities of NSW they choose to close off. QLD still getting cases they should be zero by now but no they still getting covid cases.
NSW is the only state that has learned to live with suppress it the original goal agreed by all. All the other states and territories are so $hit scared of not being able to match the capabilities of NSW they choose to close off. QLD still getting cases they should be zero by now but no they still getting covid cases.
So, I found a few figures and the number's are genuinely scary...As at yesterday, for COVID:
If you assume (I know, I know), the "average" age at death in Australia is (78.9+84.8)/2 = 81.85, then there is zero value to be "saved" in the "statistical value of life" calculations, as those who died with COVID have already passed the "notional date of death" that would be used in that application. From the available data, it looks to me that those dying from COVID are, by and large, those who would die from anything if they were to catch it, influenza, pneumonia, even a common cold.
- The median age of all cases is 37 years (range: 0 to 106 years).
- The median age of deaths is 86 years (range: 30 to 106 years).
- Source
- Median age at death was 78.9 years for males and 84.8 years for females.
- Source
If you assume (I know, I know), the "average" age at death in Australia is (78.9+84.8)/2 = 81.85, then there is zero value to be "saved" in the "statistical value of life" calculations, as those who died with COVID have already passed the "notional date of death" that would be used in that application. From the available data, it looks to me that those dying from COVID are, by and large, those who would die from anything if they were to catch it, influenza, pneumonia, even a common cold.
How is NSW not successful? NSW is the only state that is. Its very hard for you accept NSW superiority with the handling of this pandemic. We all know WA would be on their knees borders full open if it were not for the resources sector. No resource in NSW that is comparable to WA but we are coping fine. QLD they are gong down the hole of oblivion without a plan its actually very amusing watching the train wreck that is QLD now.
NSW is the only state that has learned to live with suppress it the original goal agreed by all. All the other states and territories are so $hit scared of not being able to match the capabilities of NSW they choose to close off. QLD still getting cases they should be zero by now but no they still getting covid cases.
NSW is the only state that has learned to live with suppress it the original goal agreed by all. All the other states and territories are so $hit scared of not being able to match the capabilities of NSW they choose to close off. QLD still getting cases they should be zero by now but no they still getting covid cases.
The next bridge to cross is that even if NSW is deemed successful, will the unaffected states decide to do the same. Personally I think not. Life in those states is pretty much back to normal and people are willing to wait for either a quick test to better manage border closures or a vaccine. Without doubt, Travel and Tourism is deeply impacted, but in terms of state by state, it's still a small percentage and a small number of individuals impacted against the population of the state. Is this something the population is willing to sacrifice in the short term ( say 2 years) I would think "yes".
P.S, You are pitching your arguments towards the Medical Industry, who are deeply impacted and lost a good number of their own.
P.S, You are pitching your arguments towards the Medical Industry, who are deeply impacted and lost a good number of their own.
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Well your ideas of success is the opposite to mine so we will just leave it at that.
Yes I am optimistic unlike yourself who seem to want the worst to happen and take joy in seeing it happen I you would be a hoot to be around.
NT has an end date for the injunction on SY, 9th October that’s a positive step.
Yes I am optimistic unlike yourself who seem to want the worst to happen and take joy in seeing it happen I you would be a hoot to be around.
NT has an end date for the injunction on SY, 9th October that’s a positive step.
Well your ideas of success is the opposite to mine so we will just leave it at that.
Yes I am optimistic unlike yourself who seem to want the worst to happen and take joy in seeing it happen I you would be a hoot to be around.
NT has an end date for the injunction on SY, 9th October that’s a positive step.
Yes I am optimistic unlike yourself who seem to want the worst to happen and take joy in seeing it happen I you would be a hoot to be around.
NT has an end date for the injunction on SY, 9th October that’s a positive step.
NT has an end date for the injunction on SY, 9th October that’s a positive step.
At one point in Vic.
47 persons were in ICU.
20's = 1
30-39 = 4
50-59 = 12
60-69 = 18
Only 2 were 80+
10 unknown.
Retirement age 67.
He said young, previously well patients with severe influenza who experience cytokine storm can end up with scarred lungs, so he believes the same may happen as a result of COVID-19.
‘I think the incidence of chronic lung disease in COVID-19 will probably turn out to be higher than what we see in influenza,’ he said.
‘And I think it’s because proportionally more are going to ICU [with COVID-19], and they do tend to intubated for a longer period of time.’
https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/cli...onary%20damage.
47 persons were in ICU.
20's = 1
30-39 = 4
50-59 = 12
60-69 = 18
Only 2 were 80+
10 unknown.
Retirement age 67.
He said young, previously well patients with severe influenza who experience cytokine storm can end up with scarred lungs, so he believes the same may happen as a result of COVID-19.
‘I think the incidence of chronic lung disease in COVID-19 will probably turn out to be higher than what we see in influenza,’ he said.
‘And I think it’s because proportionally more are going to ICU [with COVID-19], and they do tend to intubated for a longer period of time.’
https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/cli...onary%20damage.
Originally Posted by The ABC
Woman who breached WA coronavirus border by hiding on truck handed six-month jail sentence
A 28-year-old Perth woman who snuck across WA's hard border hidden on the back of a truck has received what is believed to be the toughest penalty handed down for breaching the state's quarantine laws.
Key points:
Asher Vander Sanden did have an exemption to fly into WA
But she instead entered WA by road and then went to her partner's house
She has been sentenced to six months in jail after pleading guilty
Asher Faye Vander Sanden, who had spent a month in coronavirus-hit Victoria, concealed herself from authorities at the border with South Australia by hiding in a car that was being transported by the truck.
She had been in Mildura, in regional Victoria, when she asked the driver to give her a lift to Perth.
The Perth Magistrates court was told Vander Sanden did have an exemption allowing her to fly to Perth, but was told that after she arrived she would have to quarantine in a hotel for 14 days at her own expense.
Police prosecutor Ian McDowall said after crossing the border, Vander Sanden was taken to a service station in Midland where she rang her partner and asked him to collect her.
Police tried to locate her, but Senior Constable McDowall said she failed to disclose her whereabouts. She was arrested at a unit in Scarborough about 10 days after her arrival in the state, and has spent the past fortnight in quarantine while in custody.
Vander Sanden 'self-quarantined': lawyer
Vander Sanden's lawyer, John Hammond, said his client had indicated from when she was first charged that she would plead guilty to the offence of failing to comply with a direction.
Vander Sanden was eventually found by police in her partner's unit in Scarborough. He said she had "self-quarantined" while she was in the Scarborough unit with her partner and had no contact with any "third party".
Mr Hammond said Vander Sanden had gone to Victoria to look after her sister who was unwell, but decided to return to Perth when she could not cope. He acknowledged Vander Sanden did have a criminal record, saying that was related to "a meth habit" but that she no longer used the drug.
Police condemn 'deceitful and dishonest' acts
Senior Constable McDowall argued an immediate jail term should be imposed, describing Vander Sanden as being "deceitful and dishonest" for no other reason than "selfishness". He said she had shown "a complete disregard" for the community and could have caused an outbreak of coronavirus and potentially further lockdowns in WA.
Magistrate Andrew Matthews described Vander Sanden's actions as "a very serious offence", saying they undermined what Western Australia had done to prevent community spread of "this hideous virus".
WA closed its borders in April for the first time in history in a bid to keep coronavirus out. e also said it was serious because she had travelled from Victoria, which he described as a "hotspot" for COVID-19.
Magistrate Matthews imposed a sentence of six months, backdated to August 12 when Vander Sanden was arrested.
The sentence is believed to be the harshest imposed among WA's series of COVID-19 quarantine breaches, which carry a maximum jail term of 12 months.
Outside the court, Vander Sanden's lawyer, John Hammond made only a brief comment.
"The magistrate sent a very clear message to people coming into Western Australia without quarantining, I can't say anything more than that."
Source
A 28-year-old Perth woman who snuck across WA's hard border hidden on the back of a truck has received what is believed to be the toughest penalty handed down for breaching the state's quarantine laws.
Key points:
Asher Vander Sanden did have an exemption to fly into WA
But she instead entered WA by road and then went to her partner's house
She has been sentenced to six months in jail after pleading guilty
Asher Faye Vander Sanden, who had spent a month in coronavirus-hit Victoria, concealed herself from authorities at the border with South Australia by hiding in a car that was being transported by the truck.
She had been in Mildura, in regional Victoria, when she asked the driver to give her a lift to Perth.
The Perth Magistrates court was told Vander Sanden did have an exemption allowing her to fly to Perth, but was told that after she arrived she would have to quarantine in a hotel for 14 days at her own expense.
Police prosecutor Ian McDowall said after crossing the border, Vander Sanden was taken to a service station in Midland where she rang her partner and asked him to collect her.
Police tried to locate her, but Senior Constable McDowall said she failed to disclose her whereabouts. She was arrested at a unit in Scarborough about 10 days after her arrival in the state, and has spent the past fortnight in quarantine while in custody.
Vander Sanden 'self-quarantined': lawyer
Vander Sanden's lawyer, John Hammond, said his client had indicated from when she was first charged that she would plead guilty to the offence of failing to comply with a direction.
Vander Sanden was eventually found by police in her partner's unit in Scarborough. He said she had "self-quarantined" while she was in the Scarborough unit with her partner and had no contact with any "third party".
Mr Hammond said Vander Sanden had gone to Victoria to look after her sister who was unwell, but decided to return to Perth when she could not cope. He acknowledged Vander Sanden did have a criminal record, saying that was related to "a meth habit" but that she no longer used the drug.
Police condemn 'deceitful and dishonest' acts
Senior Constable McDowall argued an immediate jail term should be imposed, describing Vander Sanden as being "deceitful and dishonest" for no other reason than "selfishness". He said she had shown "a complete disregard" for the community and could have caused an outbreak of coronavirus and potentially further lockdowns in WA.
Magistrate Andrew Matthews described Vander Sanden's actions as "a very serious offence", saying they undermined what Western Australia had done to prevent community spread of "this hideous virus".
WA closed its borders in April for the first time in history in a bid to keep coronavirus out. e also said it was serious because she had travelled from Victoria, which he described as a "hotspot" for COVID-19.
Magistrate Matthews imposed a sentence of six months, backdated to August 12 when Vander Sanden was arrested.
The sentence is believed to be the harshest imposed among WA's series of COVID-19 quarantine breaches, which carry a maximum jail term of 12 months.
Outside the court, Vander Sanden's lawyer, John Hammond made only a brief comment.
"The magistrate sent a very clear message to people coming into Western Australia without quarantining, I can't say anything more than that."
Source
Originally Posted by The ABC
Superyacht skipper fined for lying to get coronavirus border exemption for family of Mark Simonds
The skipper of a superyacht that sailed into Queensland from Victoria has defended his wealthy employer, saying they had nothing to do with the trail of lies used to get an exemption to cross the border.
Key points:
Greg Numa was fined $4,500 for breaching the Public Health Act with no conviction recorded
He set sail with businessman Mark Simonds and his family during the peak of the pandemic in Melbourne
The 64-year-old says the family had nothing to do with his decision to mislead officials
Greg Numa, 64, has pleaded guilty in the Southport Magistrates Court to providing false and misleading statements to an emergency officer under the Public Health Act and been fined $4,500.
The Lady Pamela, which is owned by Victorian millionaire Mark Simonds, left Melbourne on August 9 for a 15-day voyage with seven people on board, including Numa, Mr Simonds and his wife, their son Vallance and his girlfriend, Hannah Fox.
Police prosecutor Senior Sergeant Damian Summerfield said 83 emails had been exchanged between Numa and a Maritime Safety Queensland officer as part of an application for exemption from the Chief Health Officer.
A day after the group docked at Gold Coast City Marina the exemption was revoked and all seven were ordered into hotel quarantine, which ended on Tuesday. The court heard the Lady Pamela stopped at three locations along the New South Wales coast, a coronavirus hotspot, where Numa, Mr Simonds, his wife and others were seen leaving the yacht.
Senior Sergeant Summerfield said Numa, in multiple emails, claimed no-one had disembarked, and in one email exchange said: "We have had no contact with the outside world." "The integrity of the Fox family and the Simonds family remains. They had absolutely nothing to do with my decision," Numa said outside court.
"That was my decision and basically that winds it up."
"I want to thank Queensland Health, the Queensland Government, MSQ, the Queensland Police — they do an amazing job with dealing with people like myself who stepped over the line on this occasion. "I regret that and I've paid the price today."
Magistrate Grace Kahlert said it was a serious offence because of the risk to the community of coronavirus and that the sentence must denounce the conduct and deter others from doing the same.
A conviction was not recorded.
Source
The skipper of a superyacht that sailed into Queensland from Victoria has defended his wealthy employer, saying they had nothing to do with the trail of lies used to get an exemption to cross the border.
Key points:
Greg Numa was fined $4,500 for breaching the Public Health Act with no conviction recorded
He set sail with businessman Mark Simonds and his family during the peak of the pandemic in Melbourne
The 64-year-old says the family had nothing to do with his decision to mislead officials
Greg Numa, 64, has pleaded guilty in the Southport Magistrates Court to providing false and misleading statements to an emergency officer under the Public Health Act and been fined $4,500.
The Lady Pamela, which is owned by Victorian millionaire Mark Simonds, left Melbourne on August 9 for a 15-day voyage with seven people on board, including Numa, Mr Simonds and his wife, their son Vallance and his girlfriend, Hannah Fox.
Police prosecutor Senior Sergeant Damian Summerfield said 83 emails had been exchanged between Numa and a Maritime Safety Queensland officer as part of an application for exemption from the Chief Health Officer.
A day after the group docked at Gold Coast City Marina the exemption was revoked and all seven were ordered into hotel quarantine, which ended on Tuesday. The court heard the Lady Pamela stopped at three locations along the New South Wales coast, a coronavirus hotspot, where Numa, Mr Simonds, his wife and others were seen leaving the yacht.
Senior Sergeant Summerfield said Numa, in multiple emails, claimed no-one had disembarked, and in one email exchange said: "We have had no contact with the outside world." "The integrity of the Fox family and the Simonds family remains. They had absolutely nothing to do with my decision," Numa said outside court.
"That was my decision and basically that winds it up."
"I want to thank Queensland Health, the Queensland Government, MSQ, the Queensland Police — they do an amazing job with dealing with people like myself who stepped over the line on this occasion. "I regret that and I've paid the price today."
Magistrate Grace Kahlert said it was a serious offence because of the risk to the community of coronavirus and that the sentence must denounce the conduct and deter others from doing the same.
A conviction was not recorded.
Source
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From Bend alot
At one point in Vic.
47 persons were in ICU.
20's = 1
30-39 = 4
50-59 = 12
60-69 = 18
Only 2 were 80+
10 unknown.
Retirement age 67.
________________________
Speaking about ICU,
A study came out in Spain last week (the latest) on vit D or Calcifediol which is your liver converting vit D
I have supplied the study on here and conclusion.
Basically 76 people with covid over 60s yo put in 2 groups, in hospital.
50 taking vit D -----------------------1 went to ICU only 2%----------------- No deaths.
26 not taking Vit D -----------------13 went to ICU only 50%---------------- 2 deathsConclusion
More research will be required to convince health ministers, again not a cure though this can be very helpful in preventing deaths.
However all the news over last week was on a hope of vaccine and vaccine hiccup. Nothing on D.
Of course, I know why. No money in it for the pharmaceutical companies. So just squash the idea.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7456194/
Also you can find a tube briefing on this by Dr John Campbell, Vitamin D first clinical trial.
At one point in Vic.
47 persons were in ICU.
20's = 1
30-39 = 4
50-59 = 12
60-69 = 18
Only 2 were 80+
10 unknown.
Retirement age 67.
________________________
Speaking about ICU,
A study came out in Spain last week (the latest) on vit D or Calcifediol which is your liver converting vit D
I have supplied the study on here and conclusion.
Basically 76 people with covid over 60s yo put in 2 groups, in hospital.
50 taking vit D -----------------------1 went to ICU only 2%----------------- No deaths.
26 not taking Vit D -----------------13 went to ICU only 50%---------------- 2 deaths
Conclusion
Our pilot study demonstrated that administration of a high dose of Calcifediol or 25-hydroxyvitamin D, a main metabolite of vitamin D endocrine system, significantly reduced the need for ICU treatment of patients requiring hospitalization due to proven COVID-19. Calcifediol seems to be able to reduce severity of the disease, but larger trials with groups properly matched will be required to show a definitive answer.
More research will be required to convince health ministers, again not a cure though this can be very helpful in preventing deaths.However all the news over last week was on a hope of vaccine and vaccine hiccup. Nothing on D.
Of course, I know why. No money in it for the pharmaceutical companies. So just squash the idea.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7456194/
Also you can find a tube briefing on this by Dr John Campbell, Vitamin D first clinical trial.
The % below 60 that require hospitalisation/ICU is the area that needs greater attention.
This is the work force and long term health impacts can restrict many things from jobs to travel/medical insurance premiums or availability for life.
The small Vic sample above is at least 17 of 47.
People may have to tick the COVID box just like "have you ever had TB" on many forms.
This is the work force and long term health impacts can restrict many things from jobs to travel/medical insurance premiums or availability for life.
The small Vic sample above is at least 17 of 47.
People may have to tick the COVID box just like "have you ever had TB" on many forms.
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Bendalot,
Probably because all the oldies carked it on that day, don’t take a single days statistic , it’s un representative.
You can’t deny on statistics that this thing kills overwhelmingly Oldies that would be taken out by influenza either way.
Sure there is some issues with ongoing lung problems up to 10 months later for middle aged sufferers, this is why the West
is about to be taken over by the East. If this was world war 2 we would have lost at the first battle. HR government minions have taken over the decision making Princess Palshay said it!, I have no say! Well if your the premier and have no say.....goodbye!
Probably because all the oldies carked it on that day, don’t take a single days statistic , it’s un representative.
You can’t deny on statistics that this thing kills overwhelmingly Oldies that would be taken out by influenza either way.
Sure there is some issues with ongoing lung problems up to 10 months later for middle aged sufferers, this is why the West
is about to be taken over by the East. If this was world war 2 we would have lost at the first battle. HR government minions have taken over the decision making Princess Palshay said it!, I have no say! Well if your the premier and have no say.....goodbye!
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If it gets to 5000 hospitalised I’d be mildly concerned, this crap is getting beyond a joke. VIC has historically ripped the guts out of the health care system starting with Kennet all those years ago, You can get away with it until something like a pandemic hits. The virus always exposes the weakest link, and it has proven true, Victoria has copped it because of all the privatisation loving State libs they’ve had since Kennet. You reap what you sow. Pay peanuts get virus.
