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Old 8th Sep 2020, 02:26
  #1381 (permalink)  
 
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Dr Dre, I have nothing against migrants, I’m the child of two. I have nothing against the tower folk either, you are correct that infection control in such an environment is problematic.

‘’Incompetence: putting a millennial, probably with an arts degree, in charge of developing and executing the security guard program and using the criteria of “diversity” and “inclusion “ in the hiring, furthermore, the contractors were allowed to sub contract the work to body shops who then hired your proverbial low paid barely literate immigrants as security guards - and then she commissioned a celebratory video???. As for a night manager being the source of the entire outbreak that’s not proven. Doesn’t anybody in government understand that quarantine is unpleasant and that coercion might be needed as well as infection control? Didn’t they understand that police or prison experience was needed in designing the program? This cannot be argued!!

’My advice is that there was a connection between an underpaid guy and a ‘cousin” who. happened to belong to “the family from hell” a lebanese crime family who spread it far and wide in northern melbourne suburbs. It then made its way through a certain community who do not give a rats for man made law, causing an outbreak of 100+ cases here:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-...ioned/12452266

‘’The really stupid part Dr Dre, is that the government and public service were so politically correct that they couldn’t even name the groups most at risk which meant they couldn’t target those same groups for special messaging because it might have offended!!!

Te virus is now ensconced in low paid workers who have only casual low paid jobs with no leave so they have to work. It is also in the bogan Australian community who aren’t law abiding and in the migrant community. -All because no one wanted to call a spade a spade. The nursing homes are killing grounds because they too employ the cheapest labor they can find.

As for Aspen skiers, yes. However those people are not the source now.

So the irony is that at the same time the government was using sign language to get the message out, there was nothing for example in arabic or other languages.

For the avoidance of doubt, it is not the fault of the ethnic groups that they got over represented in covid cases and they probably aren’t now anyway. What I am ranting about is a government so precious it can’t do a competent job!

Last edited by Sunfish; 8th Sep 2020 at 02:52.
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 02:57
  #1382 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Stickshift3000 View Post
I spent close to 10 years in state public service; I agree entirely with this comment. Incompetence appears to even be rewarded.
I have a similar length of service in the VPS and this is so true.

A typical day starts at 09:30-10 ish, off for a coffee, check emails, a smoke if you're so inclined. Off to the gym around 11, back at 12 to go for lunch, 13:00 check some emails, 13:30 off to a 2 hour lecture about diversity in the workplace. Afternoon coffee break, maybe a meeting or "catch up" as they're called, to discuss the week ahead, 17:00 check some more emails & start to wind up the day. Good effort everyone.

And its these people who believe they "get" the real world. As an example, all the Govt. Lawyers wouldn't last 5 mins in a real Legal firm where they have to account for every 5 minute block in order to "bill" the clients. I can only imagine the Medical expertise that's determining our 'incarceration' at the moment.
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 03:24
  #1383 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
IHow about no one. It’s a very contagious virus, it spreads quickly and eventually someone coming into contact with a lot of carriers (like a Hotel night manager in Melbourne which was taking a high proportion of international returnees) was going to inadvertently contract it through no fault of their own. Eventually, one way or another, it was going to break out.
Tell that to WA. According to them - and Qld - it's all the fault of Victoria & NSW. If they'd 'done the job right' the borders would be open! Never mind the fact that proportinally, WA isn't carrying their share of the incoming traveller load. And Queensland is less than half of WA on a per-capita basis. WA even claimed in the Palmer trial that they could open the borders "in as little as 28 days". Now while this is technically "true", it doesn't reflect the reality that it can break out, and probably will do so again. Look at NZ for example. Nothing for 3 months, then bang! 100 cases in less than a week. And they still don't know where it came from!
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 04:01
  #1384 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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If I recall correctly , Dr Dre, the claim that it was the night manager who was first infected was spruiked by Andrew Probyn on the 7.30 Report and faithfully parroted the next day in The Age. This claim was then “corrected” by the CMO who advised that the information could not in fact be verified at all! The Age then ran a very small piece a few days later admitting that it was not verifiable. The litany of screwups by this State Government has been writ large in the daily goings on in the Inquiry.. take some time to explore the submissions so far. How anyone can honestly defend the quarantine handling beggars belief.
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 04:27
  #1385 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post

‘’Incompetence: putting a millennial, probably with an arts degree, in charge of developing and executing the security guard program and using the criteria of “diversity” and “inclusion “ in the hiring, furthermore, the contractors were allowed to sub contract the work to body shops who then hired your proverbial low paid barely literate immigrants as security guards - and then she commissioned a celebratory video???. As for a night manager being the source of the entire outbreak that’s not proven. Doesn’t anybody in government understand that quarantine is unpleasant and that coercion might be needed as well as infection control? Didn’t they understand that police or prison experience was needed in designing the program? This cannot be argued!!

’My advice is that there was a connection between an underpaid guy and a ‘cousin” who. happened to belong to “the family from hell” a lebanese crime family who spread it far and wide in northern melbourne suburbs. It then made its way through a certain community who do not give a rats for man made law, causing an outbreak of 100+ cases here:
Nah mate that’s just stuff you’ve pulled out of thin air. I asked for some credible links or evidence and all you’ve offered up is rumour and bias. It just confirms your own beliefs. “Lebanese cousin” “Arabs don’t follow our laws” “my advice (without evidence)” “a millennial with an arts degree” Could’ve written those sentences for any issue people like you rant about over last ten years really.

“I’m telling the truth, I’m telling it as it is, I expose the truth even if it’s politcially incorrect” nah mate you’re just plain incorrect.

Complex issues require complex investigations and answers by people who have plenty of experience, knowledge and temperament. Have a think when you see a professor, an epidemiologist, and public health specialist (like the ones I linked to in my response) etc why they don’t rant angrily non stop about the talking points you’re bringing up that seem more suited to a Pauline Hanson rant on Facebook than (what I assume are) a group of professionals trying to deal with how best to manage a critical health crisis so our industry is bought back to normality. Even if they see factors that do involve migrant communities they try to investigate the real causes (poor housing and lack of employee rights for migrants) rather than emotional assumptions (ethnic migrants are naturally law breaking scum who hate our country).

Last edited by dr dre; 8th Sep 2020 at 04:40.
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 04:42
  #1386 (permalink)  
 
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poor housing and lack of employee rights for migrants
Compared to which country? China? Central African Republic? Saudi Arabia?
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 05:02
  #1387 (permalink)  
 
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Were their not, 500-600 doctors including some well know epidemiologists advising the government, their are better ways going about this.
No gathering reviewing other people's recommendations.
Instead lets go straight to the supercomputer, and whatever it says we will do. This so called supercomputer is the answer to all problems.
No brain power required.
How come the other states are not advertising about these supercomputers? I take it Apple have these in their stores though I can't get to one.
Can't argue the science and data. I suppose we are not allowed too. Love to know what junk they fed the supercomputer.
Anyway one result it came up with was the new police badge. It did say serve & protect they will have to include, fear & intimidate.
Governments are supposed to hide their corruption though this is now brazenly obvious.
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 06:04
  #1388 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turnleft080 View Post
Were their not, 500-600 doctors including some well know epidemiologists advising the government, their are better ways going about this.
Where is that? I can only find one letter by 13 doctors, not 5-600, and only one specialising in public health, and none in infectious diseases. No doubt there are plenty of other medical professionals supporting the increase in lockdown, the Australian Medical Association for instance.

Here’s another article from PhD qualified researchers in population health and epidemiology from Uni of Melbourne explaining their support for the lockdown:

‘Slow and steady’ exit from lockdown as Victorian government sets sights on ‘COVID-normal’ Christmas
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 06:23
  #1389 (permalink)  
 
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For a bit of levity lest we all get too serious:

Dan Andrews slammed for listening to medical experts instead of former AFL players
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 06:24
  #1390 (permalink)  
 
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I posted earlier a link to the Victorian Births Deaths and Marriages website, where they publish monthly totals for the total number of deaths in the State for the previous 12 months. Interestingly, they’ve just updated it to include the total number of deaths in August of this year. Usually they include the previous 12 months so you can compare it to the same time period of the previous year, but conveniently now they’ve included August 2020 figures, but removed the August 2019 figures. Interesting because there was 200 more deaths in Victoria in August 2019 than there was in August 2020, in the midst of pandemic.

This is a screen grab I took a few days ago prior to the update showing the figures up to July 2020, and you’ll notice the July 2019 figures (and August 2019 too - 3892).


And here is a link to the updated August 2020 figures, with the August 2019 figures very conspicuous in their absence, which you can see in the screenshot above.

Deaths registered per month

Last edited by wishiwasupthere; 8th Sep 2020 at 06:39.
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 06:46
  #1391 (permalink)  
 
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Here’s another article from PhD qualified researchers in population health and epidemiology from Uni of Melbourne explaining their support for the lockdown:

‘Slow and steady’ exit from lockdown as Victorian government sets sights on ‘COVID-normal’ Christmas


Well those PhD researchers would have to say that; wouldn't they. Melbourne Uni were the ones doing the modelling and recommendations, but I guess that's irrelevant!
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 06:58
  #1392 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Where is that? I can only find one letter by 13 doctors, not 5-600, and only one specialising in public health, and none in infectious diseases. No doubt there are plenty of other medical professionals supporting the increase in lockdown, the Australian Medical Association for instance.

Here’s another article from PhD qualified researchers in population health and epidemiology from Uni of Melbourne explaining their support for the lockdown:

‘Slow and steady’ exit from lockdown as Victorian government sets sights on ‘COVID-normal’ Christmas

It was a letter written to the premier about 2 weeks ago and I think it's been pulled by the media that's why you can't find it.
However found this
https://caldronpool.com/federal-mp-c...r-dan-andrews/
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 07:38
  #1393 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turnleft080 View Post
It was a letter written to the premier about 2 weeks ago and I think it's been pulled by the media that's why you can't find it.
However found this
https://caldronpool.com/federal-mp-c...r-dan-andrews/
What the heck was that? The article looks like it was written by an 11 year old and the only quote I can see is from MP from NSW and failed furniture salesman Craig Kelly.

So again, who are these 500-600 doctors?
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 08:21
  #1394 (permalink)  
 
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Several hundred doctors did write a letter calling on the Indian Government to reveal their post lockdown plan. The most I have seen band together in Australia is the 13 doctors in this article. Sure you haven't got the two mixed up?

Nevermind. Found it. IT's on Sky News reproduced below:
Victorian surgeon Dr Geoffrey Wells says a growing number of doctors in the state believe the lock-down is “causing more harm than good”.

Mr Wells is one of over 500 doctors in Victoria who have signed a letter to Premier Daniel Andrews concerning the controversial State of Emergency bill which he recently pushed through parliament with crossbench support. He said the doctors were yet to receive a reply from the Andrews government. “What we’re seeing is that the number of referrals from general practitioners to specialists has markedly decreased, it’s probably down about 70 per cent”.

Mr Wells also highlighted a study recently published in the Lanced which concluded there could be an increased death rate of about 4,000 people in the United Kingdom because of the delay in specialist medical support. Because patients are coming to see specialists at a later date, the disease is more likely to have progressed making it in turn more difficult to treat.

Mr Wells said he supported a “two-pronged approach” which protected the elderly while acknowledging those in the general community were at far less risk of suffering a fatal outcome from contracting the virus. “If you’re under 65 years of age, then the chance of dying from the virus is markedly decreased, it’s about one in 150,000”.
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 09:07
  #1395 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Xeptu View Post
My Tip, NSW will fall and the borders won't be open for Christmas.
And that’s either about to take off, or not. All eyes on the next fortnight.

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Old 8th Sep 2020, 10:09
  #1396 (permalink)  
 
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Dr Dre, and his/her ilk, unfortunately, are a big part of the problem in Melbourne.
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 10:19
  #1397 (permalink)  
 
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I really hope not, if it were a bush fire it's the same as running around trying to contain spot fires without actually putting any of them out. Fire fighters would know it's only a matter of time before they join up and that's when it gets away from you. Then it becomes a firestorm and that's a serious fire. In my view a pandemic behaves the same way. What are the odds of success.
To be closing down, sending everyone home, deep cleaning, opening up again is just as destructive to the economy and you still have an escalating health issue.
Personally I don't think it's going to end well, but that seems to be the favoured method in NSW, lets see how it goes.
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 10:35
  #1398 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flamingmoe View Post
Dr Dre, and his/her ilk, unfortunately, are a big part of the problem in Melbourne.
What do you suggest genius?!
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 10:43
  #1399 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flamingmoe View Post
Dr Dre, and his/her ilk, unfortunately, are a big part of the problem in Melbourne.
I very much doubt that Dr Dre is from MEL
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 10:49
  #1400 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KRviator View Post

Nevermind. Found it. IT's on Sky News reproduced below:
No, that’s just a vague line in an article (from a not so unbiased news source I might add),

Looking online I can only find a published copy of letter with no more than 13 names, a urologist being the lead spokesman, I haven’t seen any letter that a number approaching 500 doctors have put their names to. Doesn’t exist as far as I can see. If any can see it (with 500 names please) feel free to post it, until then I’ll remain skeptical.

Victorian Chief Health Officer’s qualifications and experience, lots of Communicable disease, infection control and epidemiology experience in there.
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