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Old 9th Sep 2021, 03:55
  #8181 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist View Post
..................... - soon the rest will follow unless we get vaccines up high enough quick smart.
Is there any real-world example to show that a 70, 80 or 90 percent vaccination rate will actually curtail infection rates?
Is there any real-world example that clearly shows that vaccination rates, on their own, are having any recognisable effect on infection rates?
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 04:47
  #8182 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Most of us will get covid , getting vaccinated won’t stop infection .
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 05:04
  #8183 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Torukmacto View Post
Most of us will get covid , getting vaccinated won’t stop infection .
Thanks for the opinion but I was asking about real world examples.
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 05:34
  #8184 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Originally Posted by WingNut60 View Post
Is there any real-world example to show that a 70, 80 or 90 percent vaccination rate will actually curtail infection rates?
Is there any real-world example that clearly shows that vaccination rates, on their own, are having any recognisable effect on infection rates?
Certainly not in the U.K. where we are not far off 90%. There is chatter here that getting the virus once vaccinated in many cases could actually be slightly beneficial in giving enhanced immunity.
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 07:04
  #8185 (permalink)  
 
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McGowan now saying WA will remain 'closed' to the East Coast until April 2022
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 07:14
  #8186 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Agent_86 View Post
McGowan now saying WA will remain 'closed' to the East Coast until April 2022
Nothing to do with the federal election due around then…
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 07:18
  #8187 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by Agent_86 View Post
McGowan now saying WA will remain 'closed' to the East Coast until April 2022
That was a "maybe", a slowest case scenario used for budget estimates. Increased supplies of Pfizer and Moderna should push vaccination to 80-90% by November, and even with a grace period there is still a good chance of a reopening by Christmas.

Last year in early October budget documents assumed WA would remain closed to the rest of the country until April-Jun 2022. They actually opened up mid November.
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 08:51
  #8188 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
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Latest news by US Secretary of Airlines Association are that they might be accepting vaccinated tourists in November.
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 10:51
  #8189 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Originally Posted by WingNut60 View Post
Is there any real-world example to show that a 70, 80 or 90 percent vaccination rate will actually curtail infection rates?
Is there any real-world example that clearly shows that vaccination rates, on their own, are having any recognisable effect on infection rates?
Malta

And before anyone reaches for the UK as a key example, do not compare infection rates under restrictions at lower vax % with infection rates without restrictions at higher vax %

What will catch out the dumb buggers resisting the vax is that COVID can run asymptomatic or I-couldn't-give-a-rats mild-symptomatic through the responsible types and then polish off the nutters and self-important. Good frikkin riddance.

Last edited by unexplained blip; 9th Sep 2021 at 10:51. Reason: sp
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 23:17
  #8190 (permalink)  
 
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If the medical system breaks down, who gets the ICU bed? The vaccinated or unvaccinated? Will a medical triage system be influenced by politicians? Leaving the unvaccinated who chose in all likelihood, a preventable hospitalisation, to stomp up and down about their right to intensive care.

I get the feeling within the next six months, it could all become very ugly and even more divisive than closed State borders, if the medical system bursts at the seams.
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 23:59
  #8191 (permalink)  
 
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Supposedly the Vaccinated will be protected enough to not be in ICU. We will see.
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 00:18
  #8192 (permalink)  
 
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Supposedly the Vaccinated will be protected enough to not be in ICU. We will see.
The UK, USA, all of Europe and Israel have plenty of data over millions of cases that Vaccinations reduce severity of symptoms by up to 97% once fully administered. Some gain full immunity, while others will suffer no more than mild flu like symptoms, a small proportion of the vulnerable can get severe symptoms and even die, that is normal for any vaccine. Covid Vaccines have shown to be very effective as well as very safe compared to almost any other medicine, with very low severe side effects compared to even over the counter drugs like Aspirin or Panadol, considering the massive amount of doses administered so far. And don't bring up long term effects, if you take Panadol or Aspirin long term you will need to be regularly tested for kidney failure, the same with many other common drugs used to treat various common ailments. Why regular blood tests are required when on these medications long term.

You can still end up in ICU for a number of other reasons. That has always been the issue that covid patients chew up hospital resources that are needed for other things. That's why elective surgeries have been delayed to free up beds and staff.

A big Friday night on a long weekend can swamp a cities ICU capability, add 100 covid patients and then what.
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 00:41
  #8193 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
You can still end up in ICU for a number of other reasons. That has always been the issue that covid patients chew up hospital resources that are needed for other things.
I don’t think this point is fully appreciated by anyone without an understanding of how an ICU unit works when treating Covid patients. The resourcing needed and precautions that have to be taken dramatically reduce the capacity that a “Friday night” generates. This then knocks on to downstream units such as HDU, ED and surgery.
Saying they’ve had 18 months to prepare doesn’t mean the healthcare systems are actually in a position to cope, they’ve spent the time firefighting the other issues that are endemic in our underfunded, under resourced and understaffed hospitals.
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 00:50
  #8194 (permalink)  
 
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Saying they’ve had 18 months to prepare doesn’t mean the healthcare systems are actually in a position to cope, they’ve spent the time firefighting the other issues that are endemic in our underfunded, under resourced and understaffed hospitals.
The government always says they have provided beds, 100 more beds here, 800 more beds there. It's easy to build wings and add equipment, but you can not reach into a bag and pull out doctors and nurses without many years of lead time, we already import a huge amount of doctors due to the shortfall here. Add to that specialist doctors, surgeons and nurses who are actually useful in ICU. The idea is just to make em work longer and more isolated, all the while exposed to a virus that could incapacitate them for years, yeah, great for the health system.
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 00:54
  #8195 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Tthere is still a good chance of a reopening by Christmas
Highly unlikely given McGowan has been interviewed by several local WA News outlets and has stated the same rhetoric that the border opening to NSW, ACT & VIC will be months away. In the meantime WA is open to SA/TAS/NT & QLD (with Quarantine).
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 01:15
  #8196 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gnadenburg View Post
If the medical system breaks down, who gets the ICU bed?.
In NSW case they are still working on the document. I sail with some ER / Doctors and while we are not NSW the basics has been discussed by all states. The basics of the ER system as it stands is most serious case gets attention first. In the a case of a complete melt down of ICU system the reverse will be instigated. The case with the best chance of survival will be treated first also to a lessor extent the one that going to take less time in the ICU. The big difference is medical staff will also have the ability to withdraw care for anyone if their chances of survival get to low. Vacination helps with all of these things, so all other things being equal if the vacinated person has a better chance of survival they will get the bed. That will the consideration regardless of it being covid, car accident , drug overdose. They will be looking at the patients and treating the one with the best chance of survival

**edit** think the numbers have stabilised enough in NSW that it wont get to that point so its hopefully a moot conversation
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 03:45
  #8197 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Originally Posted by coaldemon View Post
Supposedly the Vaccinated will be protected enough to not be in ICU. We will see.
Fully vaxed patients in ICU has remained steady in NSW for sometime, as of today only 17% fully vax in ICU.
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 04:16
  #8198 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Originally Posted by SHVC View Post
Fully vaxed patients in ICU has remained steady in NSW for sometime, as of today only 17% fully vax in ICU.
I do believe the 36 figure isn't fully vaccinated, if I'm looking at the same figure you are (36) as it says it doesn't discriminate between one or both vaccinations. But you are still right, it has been static all week, despite a 20% increase in ICU Covid patients.

I'd be really interested in knowing if any of those 36 have significant co-morbidities. The KRviatrix and I both had our 2nd shots last week. Didn't bother me in the slightest, but it sat her on her asre for 2 days, in bed with the chills, then feverish, then the chills again and that made me wonder, if we were to both get Covid, without being vaccinated, would I be one of those to shrug it off and she'd wind up in ICU? I dunno?
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 04:29
  #8199 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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The Israeli study on Pfizer was pretty telling that in the two weeks after the first jab you were not much better off than those with none, but by day 24, which was double jab and 10 days you virtually had no chance of severe symptoms. So it's pretty critical to think of "fully vaccinated" as double dose plus 2 weeks.

Last edited by 43Inches; 10th Sep 2021 at 04:49.
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 04:55
  #8200 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Either one or two doses, the data is there. 1 dose is better than no dose.

WA not allowing NSW in at all for Xmas

QLD if I read it correctly are allowing essential workers into QLD.

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