All borders to reopen.
McGowen and Palachook are now reneging on their national cabinet agreement (again)
Saying that it was agreed before the NSW outbreak and now needs to be revised. I’m not sure what these two want, are they really that stupid to think you can eradicate covid yeah we had a good run but now it’s over. What do they expect in 5yrs time, expecting UK and US be at zero before allowing those travelers into their state?
Makes no sense their expectations moving forward.
Saying that it was agreed before the NSW outbreak and now needs to be revised. I’m not sure what these two want, are they really that stupid to think you can eradicate covid yeah we had a good run but now it’s over. What do they expect in 5yrs time, expecting UK and US be at zero before allowing those travelers into their state?
Makes no sense their expectations moving forward.
Unfortunately all the premiers will come up with an excuse not to open . The vaccine will not change anything . If it does open the majority of people will catch COVID , even the vaccinated will become ill , may lose medical etc , we are heading into very dangerous territory as pilots and it appears there is no solution, only the strong will survive .
You'll know they are in trouble when they call for help and it won't be there like it was for VIC, our staff don't want to do it again, our states know that and are doing everything they can to assure that doesn't happen. We don't have an endless supply of ICU staff. NSW knew that too and it didn't seem to matter to them.
You promote fear and insularism; with more than a little parochial smugness. What an ordinary Australian attitude.
McGowen and Palachook are now reneging on their national cabinet agreement (again)
Saying that it was agreed before the NSW outbreak and now needs to be revised. I’m not sure what these two want, are they really that stupid to think you can eradicate covid yeah we had a good run but now it’s over. What do they expect in 5yrs time, expecting UK and US be at zero before allowing those travelers into their state?
Makes no sense their expectations moving forward.
Saying that it was agreed before the NSW outbreak and now needs to be revised. I’m not sure what these two want, are they really that stupid to think you can eradicate covid yeah we had a good run but now it’s over. What do they expect in 5yrs time, expecting UK and US be at zero before allowing those travelers into their state?
Makes no sense their expectations moving forward.
What damage??
The only “damage” that will be inflicted by opening up AFTER +80% of people have been vaccinated, will come from Premiers like McGowan forcing lockdowns for no reason.
People WANT to travel. People WANT to go and an spend money on dinner/movies/AFL/etc. People WANT to live their lives, you only have to look to Europe and the USA to see the massive rebound in demand when vaccinations are at a high level and restrictions are removed.
If the vaccines work as the evidence suggests (high 90% reduction in hospitalisations), the health system will be able to cope with the expected cases in ICU.
There is NO excuse for a lockdown or border restrictions if the WA/QLD health system is able to cope with the expected number of hospitalisations. NONE.
”oh but what about Echo/Foxtrot/Gulf variant?!”
NOPE!
We have a vaccine that can be modified, we have a testing regime to identify cases and new variants, we have had 18 months to prepare medical facilities to deal with this, when we get to 80% vaccinated, the government should basically get out of the way and let people get on with their lives.
If Covid is going to be a long term, endemic issue, then the various state health departments will have to adjust their resources to deal with a change in requirements. Same as dealing with any other disease. That may mean more ICU places, or more staff trained to deal with respiratory disease etc.
In NSW the % of patients in ICU with COVID is still well under 10%. Numerous medical professionals have stated they are busier but nowhere near stretched. They could triple the numbers in ICU with Covid and still be ok.
The only “damage” that will be inflicted by opening up AFTER +80% of people have been vaccinated, will come from Premiers like McGowan forcing lockdowns for no reason.
People WANT to travel. People WANT to go and an spend money on dinner/movies/AFL/etc. People WANT to live their lives, you only have to look to Europe and the USA to see the massive rebound in demand when vaccinations are at a high level and restrictions are removed.
If the vaccines work as the evidence suggests (high 90% reduction in hospitalisations), the health system will be able to cope with the expected cases in ICU.
There is NO excuse for a lockdown or border restrictions if the WA/QLD health system is able to cope with the expected number of hospitalisations. NONE.
”oh but what about Echo/Foxtrot/Gulf variant?!”
NOPE!
We have a vaccine that can be modified, we have a testing regime to identify cases and new variants, we have had 18 months to prepare medical facilities to deal with this, when we get to 80% vaccinated, the government should basically get out of the way and let people get on with their lives.
If Covid is going to be a long term, endemic issue, then the various state health departments will have to adjust their resources to deal with a change in requirements. Same as dealing with any other disease. That may mean more ICU places, or more staff trained to deal with respiratory disease etc.
In NSW the % of patients in ICU with COVID is still well under 10%. Numerous medical professionals have stated they are busier but nowhere near stretched. They could triple the numbers in ICU with Covid and still be ok.
NSW has the largest ICU capability in the nation, double the capacity of any other state. That's important to remember. NSW Health despite what they say that they have planned and ready for, are not. Nothing can prepare them for what's coming and the "few" of their staff that served alongside our staff in VIC know it.
By late September we expect NSW to be calling for help, by mid October the scenes in the media won't be pleasant and that will continue for at least a month well into November.
With that forecast in mind what are the chances of any of the other states following their lead and even think about opening borders.
Delta will hit these places because an Underground Railway of sorts will form easily with porous borders.
Civil disobedience will spill out with no hope in sight. There are desperate people irrationally locked out, away from their livelihoods and loved ones. Everyday the hardship and hard luck stories are on the increase. A destructive political and social showdown is looming. How terribly sad.
The protesting minority is less than 0.1% of the population, strangely enough you are more likely to die of covid than attend a protest on "freedom". That said these individuals are having no real impact on lockdowns, and are just causing trouble and most likely pushing authorities to further restrictions, hence why most of the public think they are fools. The only effect they may actually have is make restrictions worse, mass protests and rioting just results in martial law.
The protests in Melbourne were an anarchists perfect dream, thugs rushing police, kids involved and getting sprayed, remember those setting these things up revel in that. Not whether you are free.
Unfortunately all the premiers will come up with an excuse not to open . The vaccine will not change anything . If it does open the majority of people will catch COVID , even the vaccinated will become ill , may lose medical etc , we are heading into very dangerous territory as pilots and it appears there is no solution, only the strong will survive .
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The average australian is increasingly accepting that when we get to a point where all those who can/will are vaccinated then the validity of lockdowns become increasingly questionable.
The average australian is also increasingly accepting that at some stage we have to live with this and accept a level of sickness, hospitalisation, ICU and death; being vaccinated will lessen the effects of Covid, Covid cannot be eliminated.
The timeline is nominally end of this year, the Feds will make it clear - they already are - there will be no hope for financial assistance to lockdown states after this time; there'll probably be assistance/infrastructure grants available for states who won't lockdown.
I would hope and expect there will always be assistance at the ground level for any states that require it.
ScoMo will run a February campaign on the basis of as far as possible everything being open by Easter school holidays.
Labor will have trouble balancing their support for Comrade Dictators Vs the peoples reasonable expectations that "we're vaccinated, lets go": ScoMo will win (whether you think he should or not's irrelevant).
The average australian may wear lockdowns for now, once all are vaccinated they won't because common sense says it's no longer a valid (or as valid) approach.
The average australian is also increasingly accepting that at some stage we have to live with this and accept a level of sickness, hospitalisation, ICU and death; being vaccinated will lessen the effects of Covid, Covid cannot be eliminated.
The timeline is nominally end of this year, the Feds will make it clear - they already are - there will be no hope for financial assistance to lockdown states after this time; there'll probably be assistance/infrastructure grants available for states who won't lockdown.
I would hope and expect there will always be assistance at the ground level for any states that require it.
ScoMo will run a February campaign on the basis of as far as possible everything being open by Easter school holidays.
Labor will have trouble balancing their support for Comrade Dictators Vs the peoples reasonable expectations that "we're vaccinated, lets go": ScoMo will win (whether you think he should or not's irrelevant).
The average australian may wear lockdowns for now, once all are vaccinated they won't because common sense says it's no longer a valid (or as valid) approach.
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Civil disobedience has started. This is just the beginning. It was inevitable. “When people lose everything, and have nothing left to lose, they lose it”. For many of us on here, we have a measure of wealth already. COVID does have an impact, but not to the extent that it will set us back 40 years. For other people, their $200 per week delivering junk mail is all that they have. Take that away and they have nothing. That’s why politicians are idiots. Sitting fat and happy on their own little rich bubbles with no concept of how the other 99% live. It will only get more volatile as the more desperate people become.
For other people, their $200 per week delivering junk mail is all that they have. Take that away and they have nothing.
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43In - you have an uncanny knack for picking one example and somehow proffering that as evidence that everything is ok. Paragraph377 was giving a general - realistic view of the economic hardship that is a bloody reality out there for tens of thousands. So maybe your local junk mail delivery fellow is still working (hard to see how delivering junk mail is essential) but the their are a hell of a lot of other people, in the arts, hospitality, tourism etc etc who have had a gut full. The protests will get bigger and bigger from now on.
The average australian is increasingly accepting that when we get to a point where all those who can/will are vaccinated then the validity of lockdowns become increasingly questionable.
The average australian is also increasingly accepting that at some stage we have to live with this and accept a level of sickness, hospitalisation, ICU and death; being vaccinated will lessen the effects of Covid, Covid cannot be eliminated.
The timeline is nominally end of this year, the Feds will make it clear - they already are - there will be no hope for financial assistance to lockdown states after this time; there'll probably be assistance/infrastructure grants available for states who won't lockdown.
The average australian is also increasingly accepting that at some stage we have to live with this and accept a level of sickness, hospitalisation, ICU and death; being vaccinated will lessen the effects of Covid, Covid cannot be eliminated.
The timeline is nominally end of this year, the Feds will make it clear - they already are - there will be no hope for financial assistance to lockdown states after this time; there'll probably be assistance/infrastructure grants available for states who won't lockdown.
I wouldn't read too much into what the leaders say nationally in the media, that's more about staying the path, what they actually do is quite different.
The virus does not know that "lockdown" and "border closure" are mere rhetorical flourishes. There have been a small number of circumstances in which the reality has come close to the rhetoric, and NSW moving a little closer in some LGAs, but the delta between the reality and the rhetoric is the primary cause of the spread (pun intended).
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43In - you have an uncanny knack for picking one example and somehow proffering that as evidence that everything is ok. Paragraph377 was giving a general - realistic view of the economic hardship that is a bloody reality out there for tens of thousands. So maybe your local junk mail delivery fellow is still working (hard to see how delivering junk mail is essential) but the their are a hell of a lot of other people, in the arts, hospitality, tourism etc etc who have had a gut full. The protests will get bigger and bigger from now on.
Then again, this is PPprune, a land where opinionated self serving pilots (and ex-pilots, including yours truly) inhabit and offer robust opinion, debate and argument on all manner of things from world politics and the theory of a universal deity to cooking truffle and goat cheese soufflé’s, to anal bleachings!
If you are going to use an example or analogy, make sure it's valid. Don't just spew opinions based on some thought, that you haven't thought through. I find that some of you are very removed from the reality of one, covid and two what low paid life is really like and are speaking for people you have little connection with. This really shows in your comments, hence why I have added I have friends on both sides of the fence both in big business and in low paid work, both sides are coping fine, but are suffering some stress (for various reasons). It's quite easy to spot what's going on when you actually engage with your community rather than sit and rummage through internet conspiracies about what might be happening to your neighbors. Get out and speak to them it's great for your mental health.
I watched a Psycologist from Cairns on the morning news talking about the effects of Lockdown on Sydney and Melbourne kids and sprouting that Dan is Covering up important information on teenage girls. Now I listened to what he had to say, but surely they could have got one of thousands of child psychologists in Melbourne or Sydney to talk about this, from an actual front line point of view. From an anecdotal point of view our parents group has mentioned a number of young girls who have gone to see the psych this year, because they are struggling with school, mainly bullying when its open, not lockdown. So context to the numbers in our area is nothing to do with lockdown at all, that could be different for different communities, but who knows.
I watched a Psycologist from Cairns on the morning news talking about the effects of Lockdown on Sydney and Melbourne kids and sprouting that Dan is Covering up important information on teenage girls. Now I listened to what he had to say, but surely they could have got one of thousands of child psychologists in Melbourne or Sydney to talk about this, from an actual front line point of view. From an anecdotal point of view our parents group has mentioned a number of young girls who have gone to see the psych this year, because they are struggling with school, mainly bullying when its open, not lockdown. So context to the numbers in our area is nothing to do with lockdown at all, that could be different for different communities, but who knows.
Last edited by 43Inches; 23rd Aug 2021 at 01:02.
China’s eyeing 50% cuts to their iron ore exports from Australia; about the only thing keeping the national economy afloat at the moment.
Whatever the plan, the deadbeats, misfits and wannabe dictators we’ve somehow elevated to power need to stop bickering and get the hell on with it.
Whatever the plan, the deadbeats, misfits and wannabe dictators we’ve somehow elevated to power need to stop bickering and get the hell on with it.
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Thank goodness someone understands my point.
Then again, this is PPprune, a land where opinionated self serving pilots (and ex-pilots, including yours truly) inhabit and offer robust opinion, debate and argument on all manner of things from world politics and the theory of a universal deity to cooking truffle and goat cheese soufflé’s, to anal bleachings!
Then again, this is PPprune, a land where opinionated self serving pilots (and ex-pilots, including yours truly) inhabit and offer robust opinion, debate and argument on all manner of things from world politics and the theory of a universal deity to cooking truffle and goat cheese soufflé’s, to anal bleachings!
When the draconian laws of the criminals in charge ramp up to the point where food parcels will be delivered then the push back will explode!
NSW are changing the narrative of the current marathon covid press conferences. I can see once 60% or the 70% target being reached Gladys will not report case numbers. It looks we are heading in just reporting vaccination levels and deaths.
Also, is it just me or BH and CMO KC are never in the same room since the inquest few weeks ago almost seems they can’t tolerate each other.
Also, is it just me or BH and CMO KC are never in the same room since the inquest few weeks ago almost seems they can’t tolerate each other.
One problem is the dip****s who refuse to acknowledge the existence of the virus.
Another problem is the selfish types who are only looking out for themselves - like the drug dealer from the country who drove to western Sydney, collected his drugs and a dose of Covid, and went back to the regional centres to sell his drugs and hand out a free dose of the disease. With any luck, it will only be the users who catch it, but sadly they will pass it on to the non-users and keep the rounds of lockdowns going.
Spare a crocodile tear for the Internet Influencer (Influenza?) who organises protests and somehow gets paid for it, got arrested 3 times, got bailed 3 times, told police he was homeless and couch surfing when he was really in a luxury hotel, at somebody else's expense. He finally gets caught again, the story unravels, and to poor little thing starts to cry about his misfortune as the conviction is draped around his neck.
Another problem is the selfish types who are only looking out for themselves - like the drug dealer from the country who drove to western Sydney, collected his drugs and a dose of Covid, and went back to the regional centres to sell his drugs and hand out a free dose of the disease. With any luck, it will only be the users who catch it, but sadly they will pass it on to the non-users and keep the rounds of lockdowns going.
Spare a crocodile tear for the Internet Influencer (Influenza?) who organises protests and somehow gets paid for it, got arrested 3 times, got bailed 3 times, told police he was homeless and couch surfing when he was really in a luxury hotel, at somebody else's expense. He finally gets caught again, the story unravels, and to poor little thing starts to cry about his misfortune as the conviction is draped around his neck.