All borders to reopen.

[Nulli Secundus]

Mattyj.......'vaccines don't stop transmissions or infection' - except in those people where it did.

As for freedom is paid for in blood, are you prepared to put on the public record that that will be your blood? Ready to take one for the team, from the team? Or, is it easier for you to process your proposed solution if you don't know the names of the sacrificed, the family and friends of the sacrificed, their photos, their life plans, their wonderful contributions to our community, their beautiful potential........ you get the picture.

And what is this civilisation you talk of?

[43Inches]

And what is this civilisation you talk of?

By the indications of sacrifices and such I suspect maybe he's a representative of the Mayans or Aztecs.

[mattyj]

I pray my family is spared but you’re all just delaying the inevitable

[Xeptu]

This conversation is playing out in the medical world as we speak. There are quite a number of pre vaccine infected staff who don't want to be infected a second time, vaccinated or not.

As a consequence of that, there are just as many that don't want to be infected for the first time either, yet that is what's expected in a post vaccinated environment. It's a dilemma and one that's causing quite a bit of distress. For pilots, having personally witnessed a Long Covid Breathlessness episode, whilst you will be able to deny your way through a medical, the first time an episode occurs in the workplace will no doubt be the last time you fly. I can't see that being acceptable for a class one medical certificate.

What do we do, how do we address this before it happens.

[common cents]

Originally Posted by mattyj

Freedom is paid for in blood..this has been demonstrated time and time again in history..the vaccines don’t stop transmission or infection, they reduce hospitalisation risk for about 6 months depending on what flavour you get..eventually if we want a civilisation everyone will have to get Covid whether vaccinated or not. People will die, sacrifices have to be made for freedom as always.

A fair assessment of the reality of Covid IMHO.
CDC latest info states the fact that many vaccinated people are still carrying viral loads similar to unvaccinated and are able to transmit the virus.
If anyone doubts the CDC just look at real world data from Singapore,Israel,or the UK.
However the vaccines are still considered to be very effective at reducing serious disease.
So any argument about saving everyone from becoming infected by vaccinating is rapidly loosing credibility.
Ultimately for those that seek maximum disease protection go and get jabbed but don’t push that on others for the sake of humanity because it simply doesn’t work that way. At least according to the CDC and real world experience.
Best of luck to all.

[machtuk]

Will people who aren't vaxed be able to post on here? Asking for a friend-)

[Zeta_Reticuli]

Originally Posted by machtuk

Will people who aren't vaxed be able to post on here? Asking for a friend-)

No you need to be vaccinated to have an opinion! Get with the times...

[Obba]

What trickery is this....?

A QR Code for International Travel...!!

The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age today, Wednesday, are running with a story on the lines of;

If you are vaccinated and you are inked with your MyGov account, you (we), can fly international.

It's behind a Paywall (for me anyway), so I have no idea as to when this will happen or any nitty gritty details.

Maybe this is a ray of hope?

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...03-p58fda.html

[Australopithecus]

The story covers the fledgling technological possibilities and that national cabinet is aiming to implement a plan for such proof of vaccination for quarantine free international travel. The story goes on to say that a few of the usual Lib Nat suspects are against making it a requirement for domestic travel, or at all elsewhere.

If such a scheme can work, you can bet that a couple of state Premiers will mandate it, meaning that it will become a defacto requirement.

The digital wallet technology is based on an ICAO development, and the government has already received help from Apple and Google to add such a proof of vax to their phone wallet apps.

[43Inches]

All of this vaccine "privileges" means nothing as the vaccines are proven not to stop infection and spread of the virus. They do however significantly slow the rate of serious symptoms and death. The real message should be, "get vaccinated because in 6 months we will open up, if you don't have protection, too bad so sad..." If you are stupid enough to be a vaccine denier, you will be Darwinised for the greater community.

[mattyj]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti...nt_enhancement

some new science for you vaccine sycophants.
if you aren’t familiar with this term, you will be soon.

[Gnadenburg]

I've asked the reluctant vaxers before and was ignored.

1) Did COVID cost you your job?

2) Have you taken money from the Government?

OK, here's a third question.

3) Will you vaccinate if it is a requirement to keep your flying position?

[Gnadenburg]

Originally Posted by common cents

A fair assessment of the reality of Covid IMHO.
CDC latest info states the fact that many vaccinated people are still carrying viral loads similar to unvaccinated and are able to transmit the virus.
If anyone doubts the CDC just look at real world data from Singapore,Israel,or the UK.
However the vaccines are still considered to be very effective at reducing serious disease.
So any argument about saving everyone from becoming infected by vaccinating is rapidly loosing credibility.
Ultimately for those that seek maximum disease protection go and get jabbed but don’t push that on others for the sake of humanity because it simply doesn’t work that way. At least according to the CDC and real world experience.
Best of luck to all.

However, when Australia opens up and open up it must do eventually, an unvaccinated society will see strain and possible paralysis in areas of the medical system and economy. I can't see sensible alternatives to vaccinating society as quickly and as best you can and then opening up the borders gradually.

[Australopithecus]

Originally Posted by mattyj

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti...nt_enhancement

some new science for you vaccine sycophants.
if you aren’t familiar with this term, you will be soon.

Wikipedia. Pfffft! Why do we even have The Lancet, or The New England Journal of Medicine, to name but two of the many actual sober medical journals. But at least Wiki does attach this caution:

This article needs more medical references for verification or relies too heavily on primary sources.(December 2020)

[KRviator]

Originally Posted by Gnadenburg

I've asked the reluctant vaxers before and was ignored.

1) Did COVID cost you your job?
2) Have you taken money from the Government?

OK, here's a third question.

3) Will you vaccinate if it is a requirement to keep your flying position?

I do believe I answered it, but it may not have been you that asked, so...
1: In all but name. I have a job, but I cannot get there, and am on indefinite LWOP until McGoose reopens the border. Probably upto $120K in the hole so far since February 2020..
2: No. I have asked, and been told I am ineligible - despite 11 months off work last year and it'll probably be at least 6-7 months this year. Not entitled to so much as a brass razoo from anyone apparently.
3: Yes, though under protest. I am yet to be convinced even 80% of all eligible citizens vaccinated will be sufficient for McGoose to reopen WA to interstate travelers, however have scheduled our Pfizer vaccinations for later this week as I don't think we have a choice! We either reach the target as a nation, or we might as well subdivide Australia into the separate states for the foreseeable future.

[Fonz121]

So many people ragging on the Gladys approach. If they do go ahead with their plan to loosen restrictions without eliminating community transmission, it'll be a huge step moving forward in this country.

[43Inches]

A fair assessment of the reality of Covid IMHO.
CDC latest info states the fact that many vaccinated people are still carrying viral loads similar to unvaccinated and are able to transmit the virus.
If anyone doubts the CDC just look at real world data from Singapore,Israel,or the UK.
However the vaccines are still considered to be very effective at reducing serious disease.
So any argument about saving everyone from becoming infected by vaccinating is rapidly loosing credibility.
Ultimately for those that seek maximum disease protection go and get jabbed but don’t push that on others for the sake of humanity because it simply doesn’t work that way. At least according to the CDC and real world experience.
Best of luck to all.

I have absolutely no issue with people choosing not to get vaccinated, however in a years time when you are suffering the after effects of the virus because the world moved on without you, please accept my tsk tsk... Similar to when a sad mother mourns the loss of her child to whooping cough, cause she thought the vaccine caused autism, sad but that gene pool probably was too dumb to survive. There is no need to sacrifice you or your loved ones, a simple jab will solve this, therefore it is not a sacrifice as the loss of life is avoidable, you just became a proof of Darwinism, by proving you were not intelligent enough to survive in the real world. A sacrifice would be a soldier giving their life to defend your freedoms.

[StudentInDebt]

Originally Posted by KRviator

I do believe I answered it, but it may not have been you that asked, so...
1: In all but name. I have a job, but I cannot get there, and am on indefinite LWOP until McGoose reopens the border. Probably upto $120K in the hole so far since February 2020..
2: No. I have asked, and been told I am ineligible - despite 11 months off work last year and it'll probably be at least 6-7 months this year. Not entitled to so much as a brass razoo from anyone apparently.
3: Yes, though under protest. I am yet to be convinced even 80% of all eligible citizens vaccinated will be sufficient for McGoose to reopen WA to interstate travelers, however have scheduled our Pfizer vaccinations for later this week as I don't think we have a choice! We either reach the target as a nation, or we might as well subdivide Australia into the separate states for the foreseeable future.

Your job is in WA but you live in a state that is currently restricted under the border directions? Was there a pressing reason why, when there were no border restrictions earlier in the year, you didn’t move to WA?

[KRviator]

Originally Posted by StudentInDebt

Your job is in WA but you live in a state that is currently restricted under the border directions? Was there a pressing reason why, when there were no border restrictions earlier in the year, you didn’t move to WA?

Yes.

Extra characters to satisfy the forum software...

[Potsie Weber]

Originally Posted by Fonz121

So many people ragging on the Gladys approach. If they do go ahead with their plan to loosen restrictions without eliminating community transmission, it'll be a huge step moving forward in this country.

NSW will be the litmus test of whether suppression rather than elimination is possible, but it will be on its own. The other states are not going to budge on elimination for a very long time. I would guarantee that even if WA had 80% of 16+ vaccinated, McClown will lockdown at a single case in the community. He will shut the border to any state that has any community transmission. The population have been scared into total submission.

We are going to be a divided hermit nation for years to come.