Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

All borders to reopen.

Old 1st Aug 2021, 03:43
  #6741 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,937
Received 474 Likes on 264 Posts
Wartime powers can mean anything. In WW2 the Federal Government used the emergency powers to snatch more control from the states because of the disjointed state of the nation. So if you think the current iteration lacks control, think about how much less power they had pre WW2. Federation could quite easily have been several separate countries within Australia rather than one nation. The larger states governed as independent nations effectively, with their own separate armed forces and governance pre 1901. Victoria had its own navy, ships were HMVS (His Majesties Victorian Ship), including a coastal battleship, infantry, artillery and mounted horse regiments etc. This is why Australian states wield the power they do.

You would have to have much higher death rates going on for any emergency powers to be enacted against the states in a pandemic. There would have to be proof of an undeniable threat to the public that would warrant it.
43Inches is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 03:49
  #6742 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Asia
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Dutton would be a better war time prime minister , anti war protestors locked up and online chat sites banned for national security reasons . Getting a covid vaccination or not would bring a smile to your face as you stood in line for compulsory conscription injections . Pressure ramping up this week on getting vaccinations!
Torukmacto is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 04:49
  #6743 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 5,421
Received 498 Likes on 253 Posts
Originally Posted by MickG0105
The only reason that I hadn't responded to that is that it is as utterly inane as the nationhood power you were touting. The notion that a Federal government is going to coerce state compliance during a public health crisis via withholding funding is ridiculous. For starters it would fail to pass the Senate, you know that arm of the legislature known as 'the States' House'. Same applies to Section 96.

It's just another version of a unicorn, very pretty in imagination but does not exist in the real world.

That sort of nonsense would only get a run in the sort of authoritarian state that most rail against. Or are you happy with authoritarianism just so long as those in authority do what you want?
It’s so telling when the self-proclaimed “numbers” person drifts into politics and starts using words like “utterly inane” and “nonsense” to describe matters other than statistics.

We are living in an authoritarian state, now. If you could get your head out of the numbers for a moment, you’d see that many Australian are being told, on pain of criminal liability, that they can’t visit their families and friends and can’t travel more than a specified number of kilometres from home. There are police and ADF members on the streets enforcing those restrictions. It suits Scotty that a lot of the consequent ‘blowback’ hits the state premiers rather than him.

The Commonwealth coerces the states, financially, all the time. And the government doesn’t need to make a law that can be stopped by the Senate, to achieve the outcome. And a spending bill that originates in the Senate can be blocked by the government in the House.

The Commonwealth has enough power to take over and run the response on a nationally consistent basis. Its failure to do so is a political decision, plain and simple. It’s probably a blessing in disguise though, because we can only speculate what a clusterf*ck it would be if Scotty or what’s-his-name on the other ‘side’ stepped up.
Lead Balloon is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 04:59
  #6744 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,937
Received 474 Likes on 264 Posts
The Commonwealth has enough power to take over and run the response on a nationally consistent basis. Its failure to do so is a political decision, plain and simple. It’s probably a blessing in disguise though, because we can only speculate what a clusterf*ck it would be if Scotty or what’s-his-name on the other ‘side’ stepped up.
They had only recently taken control of aged care for national consistency. They could not even run a consistent approach to protect those from Covid. The first outbreak in Sydney saw the vulnerabilities in aged care and then the same vulnerabilities were exposed in Melbourne as if no-one had learned a thing. They finally got the message when it started spreading in Melbourne again this year and increased the vaccination rates. Luckily Victorias state government had their act together by then to soften the spread to them while they acted.
43Inches is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 06:09
  #6745 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 5,421
Received 498 Likes on 253 Posts
We need to separate the question whether it may be done constitutionally, in principle, on the one hand, and the question whether a government has the requisite competence to do it on the other.

Federal governments have been pretty mediocre for quite a long time. And they'll happily remain that way whilever most of the public accept (or give up in frustration while watching) the blame-shifting games. Just look at quarantine.

But be in no doubt: A pandemic is the paradigm example of a matter that falls squarely within the nationhood power and, even if it didn't, the Commonwealth has more than enough power to 'encourage' the states to implement what the Commonwealth wants (e.g. some semblance of 'order' in the aged care sector). It's a political choice and - I'll say it - political cowardice not to.
Lead Balloon is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 07:14
  #6746 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,914
Received 201 Likes on 68 Posts
Another question. What has happened to the AHPPC? In the beginning we heard about them all the time.. but lately it is like they don’t exist.
SOPS is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 07:36
  #6747 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: GMT
Age: 53
Posts: 2,128
Received 208 Likes on 82 Posts
Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
It’s so telling when the self-proclaimed “numbers” person drifts into politics and starts using words like “utterly inane” and “nonsense” to describe matters other than statistics.

We are living in an authoritarian state, now. If you could get your head out of the numbers for a moment, you’d see that many Australian are being told, on pain of criminal liability, that they can’t visit their families and friends and can’t travel more than a specified number of kilometres from home. There are police and ADF members on the streets enforcing those restrictions. It suits Scotty that a lot of the consequent ‘blowback’ hits the state premiers rather than him.

The Commonwealth coerces the states, financially, all the time. And the government doesn’t need to make a law that can be stopped by the Senate, to achieve the outcome. And a spending bill that originates in the Senate can be blocked by the government in the House.

The Commonwealth has enough power to take over and run the response on a nationally consistent basis. Its failure to do so is a political decision, plain and simple. It’s probably a blessing in disguise though, because we can only speculate what a clusterf*ck it would be if Scotty or what’s-his-name on the other ‘side’ stepped up.
Sorry mate, I respectfully disagree and don’t ascribe that level of cunning to Scomo.

He has been weak as p1ss throughout; announcing National cabinet decisions only to have the state premiers walk them backwards as soon as they leave the room.

Sadly for Australians, the rest of Scomo’s cabinet are mediocre at best, the opposition is anything but, and the state premiers have been playing politics from the start and running rings around Scotty from Marketing.

There will be an enquiry or royal commission in due course, but as we saw with the Coate and Brereton enquires, the vigour with which they are pursued varies.

Before the inevitable #istandwithdan responses pour in, I don’t really care.
minigundiplomat is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 08:04
  #6748 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: All at sea
Posts: 2,218
Received 186 Likes on 117 Posts
Originally Posted by DHC8 Driver
I agree -

being a member of society is not optional just as paying tax is not optional. Similarly, not agreeing with the law does not exempt you from obeying it.

For those members of society (willing or reluctant) who choose to engage in civil disobedience as a means of protest, they should do so in the full knowledge that they will likely suffer consequences.

For any involved in aviation, they should be aware that those consequences may compromise their ASIC privilege.

https://www.asic.net.au/question/wha...riminal-record
Wise comment indeed.

The majority of society everywhere appears to want to be vaccinated so that life can return to something approaching normal. To those who say we can't reach the 80% that the current government says is the target, how come the Israelis and Brits are already close to achieving that? Our government's slow response to getting vaccines is certainly one reason why we are way behind the civilized world in this regard but surely we can achieve 80% by early next year.
As for the minority who oppose mandatory vaccination in certain jobs and in order to have certain privileges such as unrestricted travel, it will be interesting to see which wannabe government at the next election wins on such a platform.
Despite the rabble in our midst I think enough sensible Australians will just get the bloody vaccine to get on with life. They have had enough.
Mach E Avelli is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 08:23
  #6749 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 5,421
Received 498 Likes on 253 Posts
Sorry mate, I respectfully disagree and don’t ascribe that level of cunning to Scomo.
No need to apologise. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Nobody gets to where Scotty is without being as cunning as a sh*thouse rat.
Lead Balloon is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 09:48
  #6750 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 924
Received 33 Likes on 16 Posts
Originally Posted by Mach E Avelli
Wise comment indeed.

The majority of society everywhere appears to want to be vaccinated so that life can return to something approaching normal. To those who say we can't reach the 80% that the current government says is the target, how come the Israelis and Brits are already close to achieving that? Our government's slow response to getting vaccines is certainly one reason why we are way behind the civilized world in this regard but surely we can achieve 80% by early next year.
As for the minority who oppose mandatory vaccination in certain jobs and in order to have certain privileges such as unrestricted travel, it will be interesting to see which wannabe government at the next election wins on such a platform.
Despite the rabble in our midst I think enough sensible Australians will just get the bloody vaccine to get on with life. They have had enough.
Just over 66% of Israelis have received at least one dose of vaccine as of July 11. At the current pace, 70% would have been vaccinated by August 5.

In Israel the vaccination rate had plateaued in April as new COVID infections were on a months-long steady decline. But when the arrival of Delta brought a spike of cases in June, the government jumped in quickly with a new campaign urging teenagers to get the shot and parents to vaccinate their children aged 12 to 15.

They hit a wall in April and May. By May 29, the rate of daily new vaccinations had them on pace to hit 70% sometime in
autumn 2022.

https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH-...N/xklvyxrdgpg/

Bend alot is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 11:54
  #6751 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,138
Received 89 Likes on 53 Posts
Chances of a life threatening blood clot from the AZ vaccine 1 in 1,000,000
Chances of being struck by lightning 1 in 140,000

Sort of puts it into perspective doesn't it.
Xeptu is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 12:45
  #6752 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,914
Received 201 Likes on 68 Posts
Originally Posted by Xeptu
Chances of a life threatening blood clot from the AZ vaccine 1 in 1,000,000
Chances of being struck by lightning 1 in 140,000

Sort of puts it into perspective doesn't it.
Im fully done with AZ. My wife is having her second AZ tomorrow. I spent years flying across the North Pole. Getting radiated or taking the chance of diverting to some sxxt hole airport in the middle of nowhere. I’m happy to take my chances with AZ.
SOPS is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 13:38
  #6753 (permalink)  
601
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Age: 78
Posts: 1,493
Received 25 Likes on 19 Posts
Our government's slow response to getting vaccines is certainly one reason why we are way behind the civilized world
Where would we be, in your estimation, if we had received the 3 million AZ doses that did not turn up from Europe and the Pfizer withheld by Biden?
601 is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 15:17
  #6754 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Perth, WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Age: 72
Posts: 896
Received 32 Likes on 17 Posts
Originally Posted by SOPS
Im fully done with AZ. My wife is having her second AZ tomorrow. I spent years flying across the North Pole. Getting radiated or taking the chance of diverting to some sxxt hole airport in the middle of nowhere. I’m happy to take my chances with AZ.
There must be a significant wedge of us oldies just coming due for our second AZ.
Some may have taken up the chance to have their second dose a little earlier when the rules changed but many would have been content to wait out the 12 weeks.
I expect to see a spike in "fully vaccinated" this month.
WingNut60 is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 16:30
  #6755 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NQLD
Age: 38
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 1 Post
Originally Posted by 601
Where would we be, in your estimation, if we had received the 3 million AZ doses that did not turn up from Europe and the Pfizer withheld by Biden?
Unless you have something to back your claim, all the evidence I’ve seen (including a senate inquiry answer by relevant bureaucrats) says Pfizer is delivering to the planned schedule.

Scotty from marketing can’t PR his way out of not ordering enough early on!
aviation_enthus is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 19:05
  #6756 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 4,327
Received 159 Likes on 76 Posts
Originally Posted by 601
Where would we be, in your estimation, if we had received the 3 million AZ doses that did not turn up from Europe and the Pfizer withheld by Biden?
in the same place.

Regarding the AZ supply from Italy, from ABC on March 5:

“In a statement a spokesperson for the Health Minister Greg Hunt said the shipment that has already arrived in Australia would "take us through" to when it is made locally from the end of the month.
"[The Italy shipment] is one shipment from one country," they said.
"This shipment was not factored into our distribution plan for coming weeks.
"Domestic production starts with 1 million per week of deliveries from late March and is on track."

and one week later AZ was tarnished in this country.
compressor stall is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 19:24
  #6757 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Doomadgee
Posts: 287
Received 55 Likes on 30 Posts
Originally Posted by Xeptu
Chances of a life threatening blood clot from the AZ vaccine 1 in 1,000,000
Chances of being struck by lightning 1 in 140,000

Sort of puts it into perspective doesn't it.
From the CDC Lightning is one of the leading causes of weather-related fatalities. But the odds of being struck by lightning in a given year are only around 1 in 500,000. However, some factors can put you at greater risk for being struck. Regional, seasonal, and occupational differences affect your risk of being injured by lightning.

Last reports - Chance of getting a blood clot from AZ was 1 in 77000

Chance of Xeptu having no idea ... 1 in 1

Sort of puts it into perspective doesn't it.....

Capn Rex Havoc is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 21:24
  #6758 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: melbourne
Posts: 789
Received 71 Likes on 39 Posts
Originally Posted by WingNut60
There must be a significant wedge of us oldies just coming due for our second AZ.
Some may have taken up the chance to have their second dose a little earlier when the rules changed but many would have been content to wait out the 12 weeks.
I expect to see a spike in "fully vaccinated" this month.
Yes,i think you would be right,we are both due in next few weeks & in late may/early june when we got ours the walk in sites were booked out for at least a week in advance so as you say there will be lots due for their 2nd jab soon.
blubak is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 22:15
  #6759 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 617
Received 76 Likes on 31 Posts
Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc

Last reports - Chance of getting a blood clot from AZ was 1 in 77000

Chance of Xeptu having no idea ... 1 in 1
But chance of a fatal clot from AZ is more like 1 in 1000 000.
itsnotthatbloodyhard is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 22:20
  #6760 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Sydney
Posts: 467
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by aviation_enthus
Unless you have something to back your claim, all the evidence I’ve seen (including a senate inquiry answer by relevant bureaucrats) says Pfizer is delivering to the planned schedule.

Scotty from marketing can’t PR his way out of not ordering enough early on!

wrong in relation to AstraZeneca. Had we had those 3 million on time before the great big scare campaign we would be significantly ahead of where we are now. And if people remember we had a target of 4 million doses by the end of March, something that people jumped on Morrison for missing, notably the hopeless Labor party. Now you see why we missed that target.

AstraZeneca, which is producing the COVID-19 vaccine at cost for the duration of the pandemic, is facing global pressure to boost supply. It had planned to provide 180 million doses to the EU in the second quarter but will only deliver 40 million.

The British-Swedish company also told the Morrison government in January that it could only provide 1.2 million offshore doses in February and March instead of the expected 3.8 million. Only 717,000 doses – the ones from the UK – have arrived so far, leaving 3.1 million doses in the balance.
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/...07-p57hcl.html

Last edited by Foxxster; 1st Aug 2021 at 22:30.
Foxxster is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.