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Old 7th Jul 2021, 07:35
  #5681 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Perth
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
The problem is how the other States will react if NSW just let it go. That is going to cause major headaches for the airlines.

The States went to Canberra and agreed that lockdowns were the last resort. McGowan walked out and said that his definition was different so WA will be carrying on as they were and locking down early. We could very easily be at gridlock again if the country can't agree on a strategy.
The premiers agreed to lockdowns being the last resort as of "Phase 3 or 4" of scotty's cunning plan. Essentially when vaccination has reached that magic number (which is yet to be disclosed).....we are nowhere near that at the moment.

I cant see any other state doing anything other than covid zero until that point. The economic damage would be too great (greater than that of a lockdown anyhow).
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 08:22
  #5682 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the detent
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
And for the “Covid isn’t really that bad” brigade:

347 cases in this NSW outbreak
37 in hospital (over 10%)
14 of those under 55 (40%)
7 in the ICU, one of those in their 30s.
oh totally - 347 is an amazing data set to back that position and invalidate all the rest of the data collected around the world that says otherwise.
Maybe you'd like to expand on the metabolic health of these people who've been struck down with this plague to end all plagues. Or didn't news.com.au go into that?



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Old 7th Jul 2021, 08:46
  #5683 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: melbourne
Posts: 568
Originally Posted by SOPS View Post
Gladys and NSW was the Gold Standard that the rest of us should follow… until it wasn’t. She has lost control of this.

It really appears that lots of Sydney is just not listening and/or just don’t understand what lockdown means. (Especially in some ‘multi cultural’ areas.)

This could go on for weeks.

(I for one, think that Mark has done a good job.)
What you describe has been the problem almost everywhere,the minority(in most cases) that thumb their noses at requests to stay home yet complain the loudest when things get worse or the ones who say they dont understand yet have no issues undetstanding how to apply for benefits.
She probably should have imposed a harsher lockdown but as i have said before,governments are dammed if they do & dammed if they dont.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 09:42
  #5684 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: back to the land of small pay and big bills
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Telling people to stay home or shelter in place is worthless and a waste of time..if you’re going to declare some people “essential workers” and require them to work..then they are exposed. Also they’re usually the poor and minorities filling those jobs, delivering your food, stacking toilet paper on shelves, driving the bus..

​​​​​….usually once their shifts are finished they go back to the most crowded, poorest ventilated and most unhealthy accommodation with their extended families where all respiratory viruses hide.

a half arsed lockdown is worse than no lockdown
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 11:56
  #5685 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NQLD
Age: 35
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Originally Posted by mattyj View Post
Telling people to stay home or shelter in place is worthless and a waste of time..if you’re going to declare some people “essential workers” and require them to work..then they are exposed. Also they’re usually the poor and minorities filling those jobs, delivering your food, stacking toilet paper on shelves, driving the bus..

​​​​​….usually once their shifts are finished they go back to the most crowded, poorest ventilated and most unhealthy accommodation with their extended families where all respiratory viruses hide.

a half arsed lockdown is worse than no lockdown
What you have just described is why “the advice” pre 2019 was “lockdowns are a last resort”. Because multiple pre-pandemic studies (Eg done with a clear mind), had overwhelming shown lockdowns are bad for poor people every time.

That’s also why countries like Indonesia can not follow the same steps as say Australia to combat the virus.

Even in Australia, there is plenty of evidence starting to show up that the majority of people affected by lockdowns are poor/lower middle class, generally in casual or part time employment, in hospitality, retail or other “people” industries (ie shut during lockdowns).

People on higher income are generally more able to WFH, hence they’re happy to continue lockdowns.

Lockdowns are a bad policy. Especially “snap” or “circuit breaker” lockdowns that contribute to business uncertainty.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 12:17
  #5686 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Balikpapan, INDONESIA
Age: 69
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Originally Posted by aviation_enthus View Post
Lockdowns are a bad policy. Especially “snap” or “circuit breaker” lockdowns that contribute to business uncertainty.
And yet, business confidence in W.A. is the highest seen for decades.
Maybe not in tatoo parlours and gyms but businesses that actually produce something.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 12:20
  #5687 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NQLD
Age: 35
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Originally Posted by WingNut60 View Post
And yet, business confidence in W.A. is the highest seen for decades.
WA had what, 180 odd days without a case after April 2020? You can hardly link WA with evidence against lockdowns. The effects on WA will be more like a slow burn, inflation, lack of skilled workers etc.

Lock at the effect of the “circuit breaker” lockdown in Victoria for actual evidence.

WA is it’s own special place.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 13:45
  #5688 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Originally Posted by aviation_enthus View Post
.......................... You can hardly link WA with evidence against lockdowns. ..............
And yet, in the 5687 posts above yours, that is EXACTLY what has been asserted multiple times.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 17:30
  #5689 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 759
WA is a Lockout place NOT a Lockdown place.

The economy effects are more comparable to Australia's Lockout we have with the rest of the World. There have been some gang buster sectors in Australia's economy during our Lockout, but that depends on what glass you have been given.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 17:34
  #5690 (permalink)  
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https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...82ee6e8be1d844

Does not seem the message is getting through.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 17:36
  #5691 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
Age: 50
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Originally Posted by Fonz121 View Post
Personally I think it’s great that it’s out in the community bubbling along. Everyone needs to lose the elimination mindset, it’s not going to happen. The only way restrictions get relaxed is when the general public finally accept that a Covid case is not ‘Breaking News’.

Additionally, every single person in this country (over 18) has now had a chance to vaccinate. If you are that worried about getting Covid you can get the vaccine available. If not, you can have your own private lockdown where you work from home and get everything delivered.
Seriously? Every adult in Australia has been offered the vaccine? Yet only 8% of Australians are fully vaccinated? Either you are the world capitol of anti-vaxxers or I think you may be mistaken on your statement.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 17:43
  #5692 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NQLD
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Originally Posted by WingNut60 View Post
And yet, in the 5687 posts above yours, that is EXACTLY what has been asserted multiple times.
Lockdowns (Victoria/NSW)

NOT

Lockouts/border controls. (WA)

There is a massive difference between the two!!
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 22:35
  #5693 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 410
Seriously? Every adult in Australia has been offered the vaccine? Yet only 8% of Australians are fully vaccinated? Either you are the world capitol of anti-vaxxers or I think you may be mistaken on your statement.
Deadly serious. If you are motivated and don't believe everything Jeanette Young tells you, then you can book in right now for a vaccine. I did and I'm definitely on the younger side.


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Old 7th Jul 2021, 22:59
  #5694 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cab of a Freight Train
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Originally Posted by WingNut60 View Post
And yet, business confidence in W.A. is the highest seen for decades.
Maybe not in tatoo parlours and gyms but businesses that actually produce something.
But why is that? Because WA residents can't go to Bali for their holidays, they can't go interstate unless they want to risk McGowan closing the border while they're away, so they're forced to holiday intrastate. It isn't voluntary - as history shows... Not to mention WA has reaped the benefit of surging iron ore prices - which at almost $220USD a tonne are giving one hell of a topup to the state's coffers, with prices almost tripling from the start of the pandemic.

Equating state business confidence solely to the lack of lockdowns, without recognizing the role WA's border restrictions play is disingenuous and doesn't reflect the whole story...
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 23:35
  #5695 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Balikpapan, INDONESIA
Age: 69
Posts: 787
Originally Posted by KRviator View Post

Equating state business confidence solely to the lack of lockdown..........
Did I say that? I don't think so.
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Old 8th Jul 2021, 01:13
  #5696 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Eden Valley
Posts: 1,920
Originally Posted by KRviator View Post
You can think of it as being ignorant of those overseas or as it being unAustralian, but while I've always subscribed to the concept of 'doing the right thing', I don't believe it should be done 'at any cost'. That's what people are suggesting. "Reopen the borders, bring our people home, let them quarantine at home, it'll be fine!'

Except it won't be.The PPE for the staff to process you. The ongoing & repetitive cleaning of the vehicles used to transport you. The overtime and diversion of GD police to monitor the respective HQ sites. The salaries of the security guards who monitor the corridors, government-sponsored repatriation flights, if you can get one. And let's not forget, the hundreds of millions of dollars it costs your fellow Australian's whennot if it gets out of HQ again, because some asreclown of a driver of the flightcrew who brought you over wasn't vaccinated, caught it, and spread the love throughout the eastern suburbs, or an UberEats driver tarried in the corridor delivering someone's dinner.

More returnee's = more flightcrew = more chance of it getting out, even if you quarantine at home!. Going back to pre-Covid flight numbers, which some here seem to be suggesting happen, will likely result in a similar number of flight & cabin crew in HQ as we have returning citizens now. And as we've proven so many times, HQ can't keep it contained, and that being the case, where is the reward for the additional risk?

You say you can quarantine at home. Fat chance of that. We have seen far too many examples of returning citizens, or even interstate travelers breaking out of the HQ system, the old couple who was reported to have triggered the northern beaches outbreak after they decided to go for lunch at the RSL, HQ guards getting it on with 'inmates', the bird who climbed down two balconies and broke a door to get out.... Face facts - people cannot be trusted to do the right thing. Vaccinated or not. Home quarantine or not. Most people will play by the rules but there will always be those that don't! And that's probably why home quarantine isn't even on their radar. Because sooner or later, someone will decide home-quarantine isn't all its' cracked up to be, will go to the shops and will spread it through the community. Being vaccinated simply means there is less risk of it happening.

If I read that right, 5% of those in that chart were vaccinated of some description, and still caught, or had, the pestilence.

If you apply that to the so-called magic figure of 30,000 overseas citizens, that's still 1,500 people coming home, to suggested home quarantine, with the virus. Even reducing it to the 2% reported to be fully vaccinated still gives you 600 people coming home with it. Whether that number will stay static or reduce as time goes on, I can't say. If it doesn't though, the Government will be knowingly importing Covid at a rate of roughly 4 cases per aircraft (assuming 200 pax), with the core belief that every one of those people will not pass it on to their housemates or family while they are in home quarantine.....Until we reach herd immunity or the vaccination target, I can't see that happening...
Stop being sensationalist. Bringing home fellow Australians is as moral a debate as why shut down our economy to protect many who will be dead soon anyways? That's the line you have taken. The cost of it? Or more likely, the cost to you? Not very nation building in a century that's going to need strength and resolve.

Repatriating Australians stimulate the economy at a time when the economic panacea of immigration is on hold.

You have no idea what goes on in hotel quarantine! Uber drivers don't deliver. And why the hell aren't transport staff vaccinated? Just as quarantine staff must be. The Fox Footy channel wasn't working in my hotel and it took a week to find a vaccinated technician. Stop making stuff up!

This brings me back to what are the risks of a COVID tested and COVID vaccinated fellow Australian repatriating, passing on COVID, to a COVID vaccinated, daily COVID tested, hotel quarantine staff member in PPE equipment? What are now the chances of community spillage? Near zero.

Wow! There's a big problem solved. The caveat being repatriating Australians lying about their vaccination status. This may be the case in the positive cases of NSW vaccinated returnees and it is easily countered by presenting legitimate vaccination evidence. I had to offer my vaccination status to the Vic Government who mixed me up with returnees from high risk countries.

The most frightening issue with COVID, is the common sense solutions, lost on those who would rather live in irrational fear.




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Old 8th Jul 2021, 01:31
  #5697 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Posts: 1,010
Western Australia Premier @MarkMcGowanMP has threatened an indefinite border closure with New South Wales until the virus has been “crushed and killed”.

The others will follow. She will basically be her own state with spread and open to nobody. However the people of that state will be able to move about the state I guess.

Alan is going to need more cash soon.

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Old 8th Jul 2021, 01:39
  #5698 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 626
Originally Posted by PoppaJo View Post
Western Australia Premier @MarkMcGowanMP has threatened an indefinite border closure with New South Wales until the virus has been “crushed and killed”.

The others will follow. She will basically be her own state with spread and open to nobody. However the people of that state will be able to move about the state I guess.

Alan is going to need more cash soon.
I assume Mark McGowan would be happy for all available vaccines in the country to go to NSW at the moment?

NSW should concentrate on its own citizens now, including limiting repatriation to NSW residents only for the duration of this lockdown. If WA wishes to repatriate WA residents then they can make that decision.
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Old 8th Jul 2021, 01:50
  #5699 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 52
Controlling the masses with fear . Politics 101 . Take your life back , protect your family and friends and be part of the solution to get life back to a new normal . Get vaccinated!
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Old 8th Jul 2021, 01:51
  #5700 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 3,095
The most frightening issue with COVID, is the common sense solutions, lost on those who would rather live in irrational fear.
I think that summarises this thread very well.
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