All borders to reopen.

[wheels_down]

It’s clear we need to cycle the Vaccine 1.0 this year and lower the cases.

Next year Vaccine 2.0 and continue to push the herd immunity card. Many countries will get there and the trialing of opening up countries to each other will commence.

2023 onwards we can start pulling the walls down across the world.

December 2023 the majority of the world can open up. The hard work has been done.

It will die off throughout the years of 2024/25. Those poverty stricken countries will finally catch up.

[Dannyboy39]

I really wouldn’t want to tell Aussies how to run their country, but this is total insanity isn’t it?

[SOPS]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy39

I really wouldn’t want to tell Aussies how to run their country, but this is total insanity isn’t it?

I would actually call over 100000 dead in the UK total insanity.

[Foxxster]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy39

I really wouldn’t want to tell Aussies how to run their country, but this is total insanity isn’t it?

speaking of insanity, this whole thing has been insane ..Nearly a quarter of registered Covid-19 deaths are now people who are not being killed by the virus, new official figures show as Boris Johnson comes under renewed pressure from Tory backbenchers to end the third lockdown sooner than planned.

The latest data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) reveals that 23 per cent of coronavirus deaths which are registered are now people who have died 'with' the disease rather than 'from' an infection.

This means that the person who has died will have tested positive for Covid-19 at some point, but that the disease was not recorded as the victim's primary cause of death on their death certificate.

[jrfsp]

I think the UKs open border let it rip policy was total insanity. Even now the UK Gov is not committing to when it will allow overseas travel.

Australia's & NZs closed border has been politically and economically hugely successful in comparison to just about anywhere else.

[Dannyboy39]

Originally Posted by SOPS

I would actually call over 100000 dead in the UK total insanity.

This always seems to be the comeback. A tragedy yes, but only 1 in 5 deaths last year were caused by Covid - not that this is of any solace. We are now below our average death rate. Some people would’ve died last year anyway, not that I’m attempting to justify these numbers of course.

But this policy that Australia is following is reliant on the likes of Bolsonaro actually taking Covid seriously, otherwise Brazil will just become a hotbed for variants. Africa will probably never become fully vaccinated. India will probably only vaccinated a quarter of their huge population this year. China and their vaccine diplomacy seems to have totally tanked. Russia and it’s questionable vaccine supplies.

If Australia goes down this road, they will never reopen - and news flash, there won’t be the need for any long haul pilots anymore. This smacks of scare tactics - the same messages of vaccinations not the only answer coming out of other countries in the last 1-2 days too.

[ruprecht]

Originally Posted by Foxxster

Meanwhile the federal health minister says this, as per the link posted in the post above. Got a smart arse response to that.

Yes, back in post #4344... keep up old boy.

As for Deloitte, I think they have a vested interest in a pessimistic outlook, given that they also provide consultancy services on how to manage COVID-19.

“We had a focus group with Deloitte, they recommended more focus groups...”

That being said, I can’t recall the federal govt using the term ‘Zero Covid Strategy’ before this announcement. It appears as if the election campaign has begun.

[Dannyboy39]

Originally Posted by jrfsp

I think the UKs open border let it rip policy was total insanity. Even now the UK Gov is not committing to when it will allow overseas travel.

Australia's & NZs closed border has been politically and economically hugely successful in comparison to just about anywhere else.

To a point you are correct, but it was also Hobson’s choice. In early March 2020, probably around 4-5 million UK citizens were overseas working or living outside the country (including myself working). Testing was also poor in every country outside China and no one had much of an idea what they were dealing with.

The UK is one of the most densely populated countries in Europe and has one of the most densely populated aviation systems in the world in London. Closing the border to all and sundry would not have prevented the virus coming in, just slowed it down by 24 hours (those words a direct quote from our CMO).

If they had just slammed the door shut, what would’ve happened? Where would these people have gone (ah, do what Australia did).

[blubak]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy39

And the Australian people are putting up with this?

We have put up with a lot,particularly here in victoria so in reality i dont think its a great problem for the majority of aussies if they cant leave the country for a year or 2.
What is far more important in my opinion is that we can lead a pretty normal life,get the economy going again & do most things that we enjoy.
Being able to travel overseas for 2 or 3 weeks a year does not compensate in any way for being lockrd down for days,weeks or months.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Originally Posted by blubak

We have put up with a lot,particularly here in victoria so in reality i dont think its a great problem for the majority of aussies if they cant leave the country for a year or 2.
What is far more important in my opinion is that we can lead a pretty normal life,get the economy going again & do most things that we enjoy.
Being able to travel overseas for 2 or 3 weeks a year does not compensate in any way for being lockrd down for days,weeks or months.

I take it you’re not an international airline pilot then? Perhaps if your livelihood had been stripped you’d think differently?

[Keg]

Originally Posted by blubak

We have put up with a lot,particularly here in victoria so in reality i dont think its a great problem for the majority of aussies if they cant leave the country for a year or 2.

What Victorians went through is terrible. It should never have happened. However your fear of future lockdowns should not create an imposition on the rest of us who want to be able to travel without unreasonable restrictions. It is not right to keep people locked up in their own country when they’ve taken reasonable precautions and wish to travel.

[ozbiggles]

What are these reasonable precautions you are going to take that guarantees you won’t bring the virus back in the next say 6-12 months?
Has there been some announcement that the vaccine will prevent transmission and knowledge of how long it is effective for?

[ScepticalOptomist]

Originally Posted by ozbiggles

Has there been some announcement that the vaccine will prevent transmission and knowledge of how long it is effective for?

Yes. Preliminary data indicates the vaccines do prevent transmission as well as negating the effects of the disease. How long it’s effective for is yet to be determined, however the vaccines seem to be doing better than expected.

[neville_nobody]

Reality is the Liberal Party have nothing to lose federally by just using McGowans playbook with the International borders. If they were to open up and the virus gets into a Labor state they will just lock everyone up and blame the Federal Government. So they really have nothing to lose unless there is consensus from all the State governments on how to deal with international travellers importing the virus.

[Derfred]

Originally Posted by Keg

What Victorians went through is terrible. It should never have happened. However your fear of future lockdowns should not create an imposition on the rest of us who want to be able to travel without unreasonable restrictions. It is not right to keep people locked up in their own country when they’ve taken reasonable precautions and wish to travel.

What Victorians went through was an example of what happens when you let the virus into the wild. It only takes one or two unchecked to let it rip. About 800 people died.

Now you call for relaxation of international border restrictions.

I’m very interested in these reasonable precautions you speak of, and how exactly you intend to determine who amongst us will or won’t take these reasonable precautions.

The whole Sydney Northern Beaches outbreak was allegedly caused by certain “exempt” folks who were expected, or “trusted” to take reasonable precautions. And didn’t.

[601]

consensus from all the State governments

Another coffee spilling moment.

[blubak]

Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist

I take it you’re not an international airline pilot then? Perhaps if your livelihood had been stripped you’d think differently?

No,im not an international pilot & your comment is 100% correct-no argument there however is there an answer that suits everybody?
I see today there are 5 new cases in vic hotel quarantine so obviously theres lots of it outside our border.
Do you open up & ignore whats coming in?
What is acceptable?

[Foxxster]

Release from Qantas this morning.

https://cdn-api.markitdigital.com/ap...jW6FG0Biigg3B3

[aviation_enthus]

Originally Posted by ozbiggles

What are these reasonable precautions you are going to take that guarantees you won’t bring the virus back in the next say 6-12 months?
Has there been some announcement that the vaccine will prevent transmission and knowledge of how long it is effective for?

- wearing a mask in all public places (like pretty much every country outside of Aus/NZ requires)

- sanitising/washing hands frequently

- COVID tests on departure from overseas

- BEING VACCINATED

But if you want a 100% “gold standard” guarantee that no one will bring the virus back, it doesn’t exist.

But if you are seriously saying ZERO cases is the only solution for Australia, that’s completely unrealistic and a massive overreaction to the threat.

IF, the effectiveness of vaccines drives down the rates of hospitalisation and mortality to the point it’s close to a normal influenza outbreak, isn’t that good enough to get back to normal?!!

Current real world data (in Israel and soon to follow USA/UK) shows these vaccines work. Dramatically lower rates of hospitalisation and mortality means the vast majority of people are safe from COVID.

But expecting ZERO cases to be the end goal, is just utterly ridiculous.

[aviation_enthus]

“Travellers”

Just to add...

- 1/3rd of Australians are born overseas.

- in a normal year, up to 1 Million Australians live overseas.

The issues with the border closure has NEVER been about going to Bali or skiing in NZ. Honestly we can all survive for 12-24 months without that.

But what it does affect is the millions of Australians with family on another side of the closed border. This policy has been poorly handled from the start. There are many examples of better quarantine systems (Taiwan, Singapore, NZ to name a few) that still provide protection for the local population.

This policy isn’t sustainable. It’s unreasonable to expect Australians to cop it for 2-3 years.

If you don’t have family overseas or back in Australia, I’m sorry but you just don’t get it. It’s NOT about “going on holiday”....