All borders to reopen.

[SOPS]

What I would like to know is, how is it possible that there are about 18000 Victorians locked out of their own home State, but Tennis Australia can bring in 1200 players and hangers on for a stupid game?

[neville_nobody]

What I would like to know is, how is it possible that there are about 18000 Victorians locked out of their own home State, but Tennis Australia can bring in 1200 payers and hangers on for a stupid game?

Because some of us are more equal than others. Get used to that ideal under the current State Government. It's all about them controlling people's lives, that's how totalitarians think.
Alan Joyce is getting fired up over the issue too.

[Sunfish]

The tennis players are here because of a long standing agreement and three months of very detailed planning (I was advised by someone who has a part in it) and a comprehensive organisational plan. When each Victorian can provide the same undertakings and level of detail, they can get special treatment too.

Having said that, I'm not certain that the tennis crew will abide by the undertakings.

Some of you still don't understand that this is a dynamic situation that changes hour by hour. Of course its not fair, life isn't fair. If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time you will cop it.

The moral of the story is don't travel unless you have to, have backup plans, listen to the news hourly and be prepared to move fast.

As an example, I was told last night about someones kids with grandkids on a beach holiday in Queensland or NSW, not sure which, their parents literally threw everything into the car, grabbed their kids off the beach, not even stopping to change them out of their sandy wet bathers, and made it back across the Victorian border just in time.

I am also aware of various mine workers who claim to have driven parts of the Newell at 180 KMH to beat border closure deadlines. They are now "Locked in" at their mines apparently for another month because the company wont accept FIFO workers from BNE or SYD.

Stamping your little foot and crying "its not fair" is not a useful response to the pandemic. Another covid mutation has happened in Brazil and Europe (Britain?) has just banned all travellers from South America as a result.

[jrfsp]

China is building a massive quarantine centre of 33ha.....yet here we are with CBD hotels.....i wonder how many outbreaks we'll have this year, particularly if it is spread through AC systems....Howard springs type arrangements seem the way to go.

[WingNut60]

Originally Posted by neville_nobody

............However plenty of farmers aren't happy as they can't get DIRT CHEAP staff for harvest..

There. I fixed that bit for you.
But hey........lack of backpackers? Isn't that under Federal Government control?
And wouldn't they just be displacing returning Australian from flights ? And jobs?

Originally Posted by neville_nobody

Eventually the people in the safe Labor electorates will start complaining when they have to pay Rockpool prices at their local Pub and the plumber cost $1000 to change a few washes.

A bit late with that one mate. That happened years ago.
And with the West Australian economy booming the price of lager is not high on anyone's list of concerns.

[WingNut60]

Originally Posted by jrfsp

China is building a massive quarantine centre of 33ha.....yet here we are with CBD hotels.....i wonder how many outbreaks we'll have this year, particularly if it is spread through AC systems....Howard springs type arrangements seem the way to go.

I agree. That's why I suggested Curtin or Learmonth some several posts back.
Reported yesterday that McGowan is pushing the same idea.

China is fortunate in having those re-education camps out west in Xinjiang on which to model their quarantine facility.
And if China needs 33 ha then, Oz will need just 1/2 ha. (Scale it)

[zanthrus]

Who in Australia gives a toss what China is or isn’t doing. They released this bio weapon on us and bleat and complain when we call them on it. No more coal wine iron ore food for you China, at least from OZ.

[jrfsp]

Originally Posted by zanthrus

Who in Australia gives a toss what China is or isn’t doing. They released this bio weapon on us and bleat and complain when we call them on it. No more coal wine iron ore food for you China, at least from OZ.

Well considering they are our largest trading partner...largest export market, largest intl student demographic, largest intl tourist market by number and by $ spend, etc etc......id say pretty damn important

[Paragraph377]

All these COVID scared pilots on this thread, studying the virus to the enth degree and becoming some sort of mini super guru’s in the field of viruses. It’s not the virus that has crashed the global economy, it’s the stupid politicians that have killed off the economy, tourism and everything else. Grow a set, get on with life, deal with it don’t let it be the only obsession you have. It is one of many viruses that kills people annually. They panicked, they’ve created a monster (shutting down the world over and over) and now they cant undo the monster.

[Dannyboy39]

So closing off the borders cost $3bn across Australia from lost tourism over Christmas. How much does that equate per case?

Another question for the border extremists wanting to banish people to Christmas Island... a big proportion of the western world is vaccinated with the Pfizer, Moderna or AZ vaccine (I mention these by name as I see Australian politicians are citing supposed “problems” with AZ). All vulnerable people are vaccinated. In six months a big proportion of Australia has “herd immunity”. There are however background transmissions without hospitalisation.

What is the danger to the Australian public? Or is this 1 case and you’re out policy going to continue forever and ever?

[blubak]

Originally Posted by neville_nobody

Because some of us are more equal than others. Get used to that ideal under the current State Government. It's all about them controlling people's lives, that's how totalitarians think.
Alan Joyce is getting fired up over the issue too.

If alan joyce thinks he knows so much why doesnt he advise the irish govt on how to control the cases over there!
Was over 8000 in 1 day early this week & currently around 4000.
Im sick of people like him with no medical qualifications trying to impress his money orientated views.
He needs to butt out of things he doesnt know f all about.

[dr dre]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy39

a big proportion of the western world is vaccinated with the Pfizer, Moderna or AZ vaccine (I mention these by name as I see Australian politicians are citing supposed “problems” with AZ). All vulnerable people are vaccinated. In six months a big proportion of Australia has “herd immunity”. There are however background transmissions without hospitalisation.

What is the danger to the Australian public? Or is this 1 case and you’re out policy going to continue forever and ever?

No scientist or medical expert has ever said the goal of the immunisation program is 100% eradication of the virus from existence everywhere on the planet.

The goal is to stop the pandemic. Not stop a virus. To prevent most cases of severe disease amongst vulnerable populations, to stop health system overload, to prevent mass death.

The reason why people are concerned about low numbers of cases now is the population and especially vulnerable groups are not immunised. With no real social distancing and a high reproduction number the virus can spread exponentially and overwhelm health system as we’ve seen in so many other countries. A mass vaccination program removes this risk, and therefore changes the health practices and advice that is issued for isolated cases of the virus.

This really isn’t difficult stuff, it’s pretty basic disease control knowledge you would learn in the first year of a medical degree.

Few vaccines prevent infection. Here is why that's not a problem

[Ragnor]

Originally Posted by blubak

If alan joyce thinks he knows so much why doesnt he advise the irish govt on how to control the cases over there!
Was over 8000 in 1 day early this week & currently around 4000.
Im sick of people like him with no medical qualifications trying to impress his money orientated views.
He needs to butt out of things he doesnt know f all about.

In AJ defense as it seems you did not read the article today he was having a go at DA for allowing tennis players and wanting international students into the country. DA won’t even allow Victorian residents to cross the border to go home that’s why AJ is getting fired up.

[neville_nobody]

What is the danger to the Australian public? Or is this 1 case and you’re out policy going to continue forever and ever?

The danger is the implementation of totalitarianism under the guise of a public health campaign. How long can these "states of emergency" continue? Decades?

He needs to butt out of things he doesnt know f all about.

No his point is the hypocrisy. Banning Australian Citizens from visiting dying relatives/funerals/weddings etc because of the "chance" of spreading Corona Virus, yet letting in a bunch of Tennis players, from Countries with large Corona Virus outbreaks, one of whom is still testing positive. Either it's a Public Health emergency or it isn't.

Let's be honest the current state of play with State Borders is going destroy all interstate RPT aviation if it goes on for another year.

[Icarus2001]

No his point is the hypocrisy. Banning Australian Citizens from visiting dying relatives/funerals/weddings etc because of the "chance" of spreading Corona Virus, yet letting in a bunch of Tennis players, from Countries with large Corona Virus outbreaks, one of whom is still testing positive. Either it's a Public Health emergency or it isn't.

Exactly. How long until the attitude of the carefully "brainwashed" public changes. The media are playing along with the need for lock down at present but that will change, especially when they get a whiff that the mood of the great unwashed has changed.

[Paragraph377]

Originally Posted by neville_nobody

The danger is the implementation of totalitarianism under the guise of a public health campaign. How long can these "states of emergency" continue? Decades?
No his point is the hypocrisy. Banning Australian Citizens from visiting dying relatives/funerals/weddings etc because of the "chance" of spreading Corona Virus, yet letting in a bunch of Tennis players, from Countries with large Corona Virus outbreaks, one of whom is still testing positive. Either it's a Public Health emergency or it isn't.
Let's be honest the current state of play with State Borders is going destroy all interstate RPT aviation if it goes on for another year.

Here here!!! Finally a voice or reason in amongst a thread of panic merchants. Nobody is looking at the health costs of increased mental health issues, people with cancers etc going undiagnosed, exponential increase in suicides globally, not to mention the immeasurable financial hit. Effing bureaucrats shutting down entire States and countries if there is just a whiff of a single person with the virus. FFS, enough of this shit. Protect the elderly as best you can and get on with life. Learn to live with it. The majority of people, over 98%, who get it survive!!! If you are a fat diabetic American or an oil loving cigarette smoking European then you are highly vulnerable and you only have yourself to blame. For the time being wash your hands, wear a bloody mask in public but get on with life. FFS

[Bodie1]

No scientist or medical expert has ever said the goal of the immunisation program is 100% eradication of the virus from existence everywhere on the planet.

You might want to let that bogan redneck premier know.

[FlareHighLandLong]

So, can anyone tell me right now what it looks like in late April, When every vulnerable Australian has been immunised (or offered it). 4 millions doses by the end of March should have covered that, and we’re now working our way down the age groups.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...ruary/13039078
(and let’s accept that they achieve the target)

what does the Re-opening look like? I’m thinking:

the departure restriction becomes indefensible (if it wasn’t already)
crew have reduced home isolation but must be vaccinated. Still strict Covid while away

a coupe of months later (June?) quarantine becomes home quarantine and/or reduced for people who can show they have been vaccinated with one of the approved vaccines (one of the approved Aussie ones, Pfizer, moderna, AstraZeneca by then, and in accordance with the Australian evidence standard which we assume is implemented). State border closures can no longer be justified (if they ever were)
Crew are still required to follow strict Covid rules while away, but no restrictions on return.

at some point (sep?) nobody enters the country without an approved vaccine.
crew allowed normal behaviours on trips, and no quarantine on return.

[dr dre]

Originally Posted by Paragraph377

Nobody is looking at the health costs of increased mental health issues

No increase in suicide rate so far. Probably attributable to jobkeeper.

people with cancers etc going undiagnosed,

No real change in Medicare and PBS payouts from 19 to 20, after a short decrease in March/April, suggesting the same amount of medical services were being accessed in 2020 as 2019.

not to mention the immeasurable financial hit.

USA and Europe took a bigger financial hit, due to the pandemic currently raging through those places. All in all Australia's lock it out policy has done the best job.

The majority of people, over 98%, who get it survive!!!

A CFR of 2% (disregarding health system pressures, and long term complications) is actually really bad.

If you are a fat diabetic American or an oil loving cigarette smoking European

Australia has a higher obesity rate than Belgium, France, Italy, Spain and a higher or comparable smoking rate than the UK, Sweden, Chile, Ireland which have all been hammered by the pandemic. Which suggests similar infection and death rates would present here if we "just learnt to live with it".

[dr dre]

Originally Posted by FlareHighLandLong

crew have reduced home isolation but must be vaccinated. Still strict Covid while away

a coupe of months later (June?) quarantine becomes home quarantine and/or reduced for people who can show they have been vaccinated with one of the approved vaccines (one of the approved Aussie ones, Pfizer, moderna, AstraZeneca by then, and in accordance with the Australian evidence standard which we assume is implemented). State border closures can no longer be justified (if they ever were)
Crew are still required to follow strict Covid rules while away, but no restrictions on return.

at some point (sep?) nobody enters the country without an approved vaccine.
crew allowed normal behaviours on trips, and no quarantine on return.

That's a pretty fair guess I reckon. It'll be a staggered return in any case. I think the big change will be when herd immunity is reached, last's year's flu vaccine got to 60% before winter, no reason with a free vaccine and a massive public relations campaign Covid vax couldn't be done sooner or wider.