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How good is Alliance!!!!

Old 17th Apr 2022, 12:34
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Honest Q as an outsider: always had the impression Alliance were (arguably) one of the better - if not top - options outside the majors. Bearing in mind that NOTHING - even QF! - is perfect.

Have I been conned or are things really heading south?

If heading south what's changed?

Cheers

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Old 18th Apr 2022, 21:58
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Originally Posted by galdian View Post
Honest Q as an outsider: always had the impression Alliance were (arguably) one of the better - if not top - options outside the majors. Bearing in mind that NOTHING - even QF! - is perfect.

Have I been conned or are things really heading south?

If heading south what's changed?

Cheers
I think its more the case that other opportunities are becoming available. What was a terrific opportunity in the middle of a crisis 12 months ago is suddenly viewed differently by some.
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Old 18th Apr 2022, 22:59
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Originally Posted by SHSS View Post
I think its more the case that other opportunities are becoming available. What was a terrific opportunity in the middle of a crisis 12 months ago is suddenly viewed differently by some.
I think some did see it as a terrific opportunity to use a crisis to get hold of highly experienced crew on crappy contracts and treat them with disdain.
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Old 19th Apr 2022, 00:54
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Originally Posted by grrowler View Post
I think some did see it as a terrific opportunity to use a crisis to get hold of highly experienced crew on crappy contracts and treat them with disdain.
I agree, but I was answering a question about Alliance 'heading south'. I think its more the case that other organisations are now heading north and some good opportunities exist.
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Old 19th Apr 2022, 10:35
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The Rats are now fleeing the the Ratsack infected airline known as Alliance which used a crisis the disrespect experienced pilots. This is comedy gold, just had a mate leave today heading off overseas to quadruple his income living in Florida.
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Old 20th Apr 2022, 11:32
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Originally Posted by grrowler View Post
I think some did see it as a terrific opportunity to use a crisis to get hold of highly experienced crew on crappy contracts and treat them with disdain.
Not really. I'm not sure much changed. Their standard recruit went from a 25yr old turbo prop guy, to a 10-20,000hr widebody jet pilot. I'm not sure the offer changed, but the desperation of experienced pilots did. Now, things are very rapidly changing. With so many opportunities out there, the average wage/average days off package is wearing thin. Plus, no-one wants to live in Darwin, which from all reports (recent interviews) seems to be the growing base.
I fail to see how they will get anywhere near the numbers they need.
457's by July is my bet.

Last edited by Mugsgame; 22nd Apr 2022 at 16:13.
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Old 20th Apr 2022, 13:09
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I have noticed and been told by others from personal experience, in that executive teams think they have a leg up, or a close grip on the Pilot profession at the moment. We own you, and you need us, sort of culture springs to mind. If your not happy, we don’t care, this is how we operate, just be quiet and be grateful we gave you a job. The whole thing about culture need not matter because you Pilots are so desperate for a job at the moment and you will never leave us, is false. God help the poor bodies who push for a improvement in any terms on offer, they will send you to the trashcan.

Rex is another example and I find it amusing when JS whinges to the press when all his staff quit, especially his cadets which he thinks he ‘owned’ have packed up and accepted a better offer.

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Old 21st Apr 2022, 04:51
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As someone pointed out above, pilots are not “pushing for an improvement in the terms on offer”, they are just resigning. Sometimes within weeks of being checked to line.
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Old 21st Apr 2022, 05:32
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Well there are a number of experienced Ex Alliance F100 Captains presently in Australia. So if Alliance is really short of Captains they should contact them, some already have Airbus and Boeing experience from overseas which could be of use later on. I'm sure their email addresses have not changed. However offering them FO slots will not get them any where.
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Old 22nd Apr 2022, 00:22
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Originally Posted by Mugsgame View Post
Not really. I'm not sure much changed. Their standard recruit went from a 25yr old turbo prop guy, to a 10-20,000hr widebody jet pilot. I'm not sure the offer changed, but the desperation of experienced pilots did. Now, things are very rapidly changing. With so many opportunities out there, the average wage/average days off package is wearing thin. Plus, no-one wants to live in Darwin, which seems to be the growing base.
I fail to see how they will get anywhere near the numbers they need.
457's by July is my bet.
If they didn’t need experienced pilots to set up their “airline like” operation, why not just continue to hire 25 year olds? Otherwise I agree…
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Old 22nd Apr 2022, 04:37
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I fail to see how they will get anywhere near the numbers they need.
457's by July is my bet.
We hear this a lot. Where is this pool of pilots waiting to come to Australia on 457 visas when the rest of the world is hiring?

The first sentence sounds right though.
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Old 22nd Apr 2022, 06:48
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
Where is this pool of pilots waiting to come to Australia on 457 visas when the rest of the world is hiring?
I fail to see any justification for the grant of 457 visas when there are highly-experienced airline pilots already in Australia who have been denied employment opportunities because they don't have certain type ratings.
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Old 24th Apr 2022, 16:36
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No argument from me on that point, I just don’t think there is a pool of pilots ready to flood our market, maybe a trickle. Nothing that will fill the vacancies that exist now and are in the pipeline.
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Old 24th Apr 2022, 23:36
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
No argument from me on that point, I just don’t think there is a pool of pilots ready to flood our market, maybe a trickle. Nothing that will fill the vacancies that exist now and are in the pipeline.
It's an interesting point you make, is the pilot shortage that's been predicted finally coming in 2023? If so it might swing conditions in favour of the pilots and reverse the damage that covid has allowed companies to capitalise on.
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 03:15
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There’s a pool of ~400 recently made redundant pilots already IN Australia (and NZ) with jet RPT experience. Insane if a government allows 457s while they remain available
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 04:49
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Originally Posted by TimmyTee View Post
There’s a pool of ~400 recently made redundant pilots already IN Australia (and NZ) with jet RPT experience. Insane if a government allows 457s while they remain available
The fact that this list even exists, should surely force pilot to be removed from the shortage of skilled workers list that the government maintains. ….
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 08:08
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There is currently a pilot shortage, and the problem is only going to get worse in my opinion.

Age is becoming an issue now for anyone near or over 65, it’s a bugger however it’s the world we live in now.

Last edited by Duck Pilot; 25th Apr 2022 at 22:26.
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 09:58
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Originally Posted by TimmyTee View Post
There’s a pool of ~400 recently made redundant pilots already IN Australia (and NZ) with jet RPT experience. Insane if a government allows 457s while they remain available
They weren't all Australian Timmy and quite a few of them are career expats. But I wouldn't be surprised if there were close to 200
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 12:18
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Originally Posted by airdualbleedfault View Post
They weren't all Australian Timmy and quite a few of them are career expats. But I wouldn't be surprised if there were close to 200
So what it they're 'career expats'? They are Australian citizens, with (presumably) Australian licence qualifications and truck loads of experience. There's at least 100 ex-CX guys & gals, plus a bunch more from KA, EK, QR, CZ and others. The CX pilots alone have over 2,000 'man-years' of experience between them.
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 12:46
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A CX mate of mine is 60 and won’t do Darwin or Adelaide as the wife and kids refuse to move, again. Has a government job and is happy doing that. I think you will find many in that boat and await opportunities in the cities, I know another who is many years younger, but again, doesn’t want to live in those places. Applied for the CAE Bonza job instead.

Perhaps Alliance should open a Melbourne and Sydney base. Probably the way the industry bases will be going in the longer run, won’t see much outside the big cities, perhaps Cairns and that’s it.
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