Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

How good is Alliance!!!!

Old 18th Jun 2021, 09:17
  #481 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: melbourne
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
So that accounts for 18 of the 30 airframes. I get the feeling that 18 is not the final figure.
I would be thinking the same & when it comes to EBA negotiating time(if there is any) this will be used as a threat to get anything they want.
Its no secret the A220 is high on their list to replace 717s but dont be surprised to see a lot more than a 1 for 1 replacement with some to replace older 738s & they will be operated by alliance or network on a much lower cost basis.
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Old 18th Jun 2021, 09:24
  #482 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
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The e190 will replace the 717.perfect for QF as they dont have to buy airframes.

the ‘group’ fleet replacement is off the table. Expect alliance contract to grow, network to continue growing, and the MAX for 737 replacement.

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Old 18th Jun 2021, 23:06
  #483 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 142
Where are these aircraft going to be based? Is the plan that they are to be based in DRW/ADL/PER?
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Old 19th Jun 2021, 05:05
  #484 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Klink View Post
Where are these aircraft going to be based? Is the plan that they are to be based in DRW/ADL/PER?
Alliance have taken over the old qantas hanger at ADL.
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Old 19th Jun 2021, 10:38
  #485 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy View Post
I heard someone say “Scab” on the radio the other day directed to one of these descending into Alice. Are these E190s being operated by crew being paid under the award still or has that been resolved?
And QF pilots wonder why a lot of other pilots think they’re entitled wankers…..
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Old 19th Jun 2021, 11:34
  #486 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
And QF pilots wonder why a lot of other pilots think they’re entitled wankers…..
Many more pilots wonder why other pilots can't seem to grasp flying a Qantas livery aircraft for less on routes formally flown by them is a tad aggravating.

717s ever stood down ? Network ever stood down longer than a fortnight?

Plus Morno the original poster said "someone" so it's you deciding who said what.
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Old 19th Jun 2021, 11:59
  #487 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Originally Posted by goodonyamate View Post
The e190 will replace the 717.perfect for QF as they dont have to buy airframes.

the ‘group’ fleet replacement is off the table. Expect alliance contract to grow, network to continue growing, and the MAX for 737 replacement.
I think the MAX is not a foregone conclusion of getting the order compared to the NEO, especially with the flexibility 321s provide for the 737 replacement.
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Old 19th Jun 2021, 12:17
  #488 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Originally Posted by ShandywithSugar View Post
Plus Morno the original poster said "someone" so it's you deciding who said what.
I know, I’ll give you that, but what are the chances….

Anyone who belittles others for merely taking a job that is on offer to pay the bills and keep their families alive, is nothing short of a tosspot
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Old 19th Jun 2021, 12:27
  #489 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
I know, I’ll give you that, but what are the chances….

Anyone who belittles others for merely taking a job that is on offer to pay the bills and keep their families alive, is nothing short of a tosspot
You were obviously one of the hero’s happy to work for less then the award in your GA days… just to get the hours/twin time/pay the bills
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Old 19th Jun 2021, 13:14
  #490 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Why all the negatively? You heard AJ, this is all about getting "our people" back in work. I guess "we" do own 20% of QQ so they are "our" people, all the while "our" other people are still stood down. I guess we wait until QQ get some MAX's so more of "our" people can get back to work.
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Old 19th Jun 2021, 13:14
  #491 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy View Post
You were obviously one of the hero’s happy to work for less then the award in your GA days… just to get the hours/twin time/pay the bills
You would assume incorrect, but how is that remotely anything like working under an approved EBA? Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean others can't work there.
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Old 19th Jun 2021, 14:37
  #492 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
And QF pilots wonder why a lot of other pilots think they’re entitled wankers…..
Ahh moron, sorry morno, I knew you’d pop up to have a shot at Qantas pilots again. So predictable…
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Old 19th Jun 2021, 21:12
  #493 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 207
Seriously, the 717 is the operation most threatened by the e190. Maybe it was one of them. Or maybe it’s just bullshit, and no one said anything. You seriously think in the days of multi crew aircraft, both would think it was a good idea to say something so stupid over the radio, when with a bit of digging it could easily be determined who said it? That would be an HR wet dream. Reducing headcount in COVID without having to pay entitlements.

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Old 20th Jun 2021, 01:26
  #494 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
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So - Alliance contract to QF, expand and a significant proportion of Alliance pilot "recruitment" is limited solely to QF group pilots, who retain the right to return to the mothership in due course. I assume that's good.

AJ does the job he is paid to do, uses whatever circumstances available (and probably necessary) to restructure cost bases across the QF group. It appears that's bad.

Not to mention the EOI's for positions - from within QF group pilots only, please - by Network at least, maybe others. I'm confused now, suppose that's both good and bad.

The "cake and all" attitude from some provides a bit of a chuckle at times if nothing else.

And you wonder why QF pilots get a bad rap at times.



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Old 20th Jun 2021, 01:46
  #495 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sydney
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
I know, I’ll give you that, but what are the chances….

Anyone who belittles others for merely taking a job that is on offer to pay the bills and keep their families alive, is nothing short of a tosspot

Tosspot is putting it nicely. Any pilot that refers to another pilot as a scab is nothing short of a scumbag.

Direct your anger toward management, not those just trying to put food on the table.
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Old 20th Jun 2021, 07:38
  #496 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 117
And truthfully, anyone who gets on PPRuNe and paints 2000 pilots with the same brush over something that may, but probably didn't happen, is an [email protected]!e. Get over yourselves.
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Old 21st Jun 2021, 08:31
  #497 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: passing a cloud
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I think some of you guys are missing the point of a business particularly Qantas' regional ops and is Alliance really that good.

The easier to handle part is Alliance, and the answer is pretty good if you are a shareholder and interested in the business.

For years it has been well known that the F100 has an end date at some point and that aircraft obsolescence has proven that Australia is the Fokker graveyard of the world. Several manufacturers put on their dog and pony shows a few years ago for the QF execs to flog their new toys and it was quietly pointed out to them that in the QF "regional" business model there was no way that the business model made money with new airframes. High capital costs, long thin routes, reduced revenue sectors per day, and price sensitivity simply dictated that there was not going to be any order for hot new jets from Montreal or the jungle.

Fast backwards to the 90's and the noughties...... Eastern, Sunstate were keen to get jets just like southern....... until southern got shirt fronted and Cobham took on the 146's. Then we had Gerry and no-pulse that morphed into Jetstar and the 717 that worked out economically but had dreadful engine TBO's but needed a home...... off to Cobham they go. The reason is one of the oldest in the book, divide and conquer keep it at arms length. The Qlink pro-prop team got all hot under the collar about jets again and everyone was played off against each other both internally and externally. All the while Frightwest got deep sixed by Ansett and the son in law and the chairman rebirthed it as Alliance.... how good is that.

A few years later we need to go back to Coward St when AN fell over and while Sept-11 kicked international in the groin for a bit QF yield management were ready to pop the champagne corks as they now had 90% market share, (aka the purpose of the "business") Joycie is then apoplectic when the ACCC set up camp and rain on his next bonus.

Using the time twister from the TVA we are now back into the last lets call it a decade. Network becomes a gift horse for the big Q to get stuck into Skywests once dominance and to tease Stan while at the same time Alliance is sitting there putting the Dirty little ones out at rock bottom prices to generate revenue on low CapEx equipment. SkyW becomes VARA, Stan is still asleep at the wheel, Network has it puppet masters trying to dump old 320's and Alliance is getting bigger by the month.

QF sees an opportunity and cuts VA grass by taking a nat under 20%, Cobham are under pressure to get out of marginal profitability contract ops during their EU takeover opportunity and QF to save their own skin take over the crew liabilities (yes that what it's know as) in line with the existing airframe liabilities. Along comes COVID, VA coughs and almost drowns on their own vomit, and low and behold QF now accidently dont have a method to divide and conquer because everyone works for them.

So now we have the same thing, the group has 90%+ market share in the regions and need to ensure that they are at least seen to be doing the right thing by John and Jane Citizen and the ACCC yet they really do control the lot. Enter the 190 post COVID.

The Capex is now minimum, to the point where you can by 2x 190's for less than what Q was paying for 1x Q400, Getting mainline back to work was one thing, however making the 737's work harder to cover a lack of Dom A330s and let s call it "new opportunities" aka make Bain really work for their money. Faster than an FO on a promise a plan is hatched that puts all the Capex and risk on Alliance and make themselves look good at the same time by adding network opportunities Bonus all round..... except that they are still on the government tit.

So instead of bitching about who's flying what for whom on how much, who really gives a rotund rodents rectum. There are literally hundreds of capable Australian crews that would love the opportunity to get back in the seat but if they all want to be a all LindaEvangelista about it then I'd suggest they enjoy their time on the front 9 and lets see a few businesses do exactly what they are meant to. If rumor has it right then the first 30 jungle jets are just the tip of the iceberg and the days of the dirty little Fokker may be somewhat limited, with the 100's becoming organ donors to keep the 70's plodding along.

How good is Alliance..... right place, right time, first mover advantage and market opportunity. Pretty darn good right now i'd suggest.

Last edited by TWOTBAGS; 21st Jun 2021 at 08:42.
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Old 21st Jun 2021, 23:57
  #498 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: East of Westralia
Posts: 451
Originally Posted by TWOTBAGS View Post
I think some of you guys are missing the point of a business particularly Qantas' regional ops and is Alliance really that good.

The easier to handle part is Alliance, and the answer is pretty good if you are a shareholder and interested in the business.

For years it has been well known that the F100 has an end date at some point and that aircraft obsolescence has proven that Australia is the Fokker graveyard of the world. Several manufacturers put on their dog and pony shows a few years ago for the QF execs to flog their new toys and it was quietly pointed out to them that in the QF "regional" business model there was no way that the business model made money with new airframes. High capital costs, long thin routes, reduced revenue sectors per day, and price sensitivity simply dictated that there was not going to be any order for hot new jets from Montreal or the jungle.

Fast backwards to the 90's and the noughties...... Eastern, Sunstate were keen to get jets just like southern....... until southern got shirt fronted and Cobham took on the 146's. Then we had Gerry and no-pulse that morphed into Jetstar and the 717 that worked out economically but had dreadful engine TBO's but needed a home...... off to Cobham they go. The reason is one of the oldest in the book, divide and conquer keep it at arms length. The Qlink pro-prop team got all hot under the collar about jets again and everyone was played off against each other both internally and externally. All the while Frightwest got deep sixed by Ansett and the son in law and the chairman rebirthed it as Alliance.... how good is that.

A few years later we need to go back to Coward St when AN fell over and while Sept-11 kicked international in the groin for a bit QF yield management were ready to pop the champagne corks as they now had 90% market share, (aka the purpose of the "business") Joycie is then apoplectic when the ACCC set up camp and rain on his next bonus.

Using the time twister from the TVA we are now back into the last lets call it a decade. Network becomes a gift horse for the big Q to get stuck into Skywests once dominance and to tease Stan while at the same time Alliance is sitting there putting the Dirty little ones out at rock bottom prices to generate revenue on low CapEx equipment. SkyW becomes VARA, Stan is still asleep at the wheel, Network has it puppet masters trying to dump old 320's and Alliance is getting bigger by the month.

QF sees an opportunity and cuts VA grass by taking a nat under 20%, Cobham are under pressure to get out of marginal profitability contract ops during their EU takeover opportunity and QF to save their own skin take over the crew liabilities (yes that what it's know as) in line with the existing airframe liabilities. Along comes COVID, VA coughs and almost drowns on their own vomit, and low and behold QF now accidently dont have a method to divide and conquer because everyone works for them.

So now we have the same thing, the group has 90%+ market share in the regions and need to ensure that they are at least seen to be doing the right thing by John and Jane Citizen and the ACCC yet they really do control the lot. Enter the 190 post COVID.

The Capex is now minimum, to the point where you can by 2x 190's for less than what Q was paying for 1x Q400, Getting mainline back to work was one thing, however making the 737's work harder to cover a lack of Dom A330s and let s call it "new opportunities" aka make Bain really work for their money. Faster than an FO on a promise a plan is hatched that puts all the Capex and risk on Alliance and make themselves look good at the same time by adding network opportunities Bonus all round..... except that they are still on the government tit.

So instead of bitching about who's flying what for whom on how much, who really gives a rotund rodents rectum. There are literally hundreds of capable Australian crews that would love the opportunity to get back in the seat but if they all want to be a all LindaEvangelista about it then I'd suggest they enjoy their time on the front 9 and lets see a few businesses do exactly what they are meant to. If rumor has it right then the first 30 jungle jets are just the tip of the iceberg and the days of the dirty little Fokker may be somewhat limited, with the 100's becoming organ donors to keep the 70's plodding along.

How good is Alliance..... right place, right time, first mover advantage and market opportunity. Pretty darn good right now i'd suggest.
Thank you for the summary - well written.
ScepticalOptomist is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2021, 00:15
  #499 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kichin
Posts: 549
Originally Posted by davidclarke View Post
Tosspot is putting it nicely. Any pilot that refers to another pilot as a scab is nothing short of a scumbag.

Direct your anger toward management, not those just trying to put food on the table.
Post of the thread! This is why management have and will always win.
gordonfvckingramsay is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2021, 01:36
  #500 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: vegas, not 'las', or 'bris', but the other one
Posts: 99
How good is Alliance?

So good apparently that the 2 key persons in flight ops have moved on, or been moved on……

https://www.seek.com.au/job/53012138

https://www.seek.com.au/job/53014107


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