How good is Alliance!!!!

[ruprecht]

Won’t it be a shock when a QF and an Alliance pilot share a cockpit and they find out that they actually have a lot in common...

[CFD]

Advert today for type rated E190 Captains and First Officers bases DWN and ADL. Application to include confirmation type rated on E190, when you last flew E190 and base preference.

[Transition Layer]

Can we ask about the coin they’re offering for E190 Capts and FOs?

[dr dre]

Alliance EBAs for Qld and SA F100 available on the FWC website show a base rate of $154k for Captains and $106k for FOs. Productivity bonus above 55/57hrs and some other allowances as well. Similar to the award.

Given award rates for F100 and 717 are similar I can’t think of E-Jet rates being substantially more.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

We’re resigning ourselves to accepting the award are we? I think you’ll find the 717 contract is closer to $200k for captains.

[dr dre]

It is, but it ain’t Cobham employing the pilots this time. I can’t see Alliance offering substantially more pay to fly a 94 seat E190 than a 100 seat F100.

[bangbounceboeing]

They can offer whatever they feel like and still have a queue a mile long around the corner

[smiling monkey]

Originally Posted by bangbounceboeing

They can offer whatever they feel like and still have a queue a mile long around the corner

Really? Just how many type rated and current E190 pilots are there in Australia?

[Transition Layer]

Those numbers are somewhat underwhelming!

Plenty of stood down QF drivers are finding jobs in other industries paying 6 figures. The opportunity is a great one for some QF people but it may make more sense to use the time diversifying and learning new skills than continue in aviation earning that sort of money. We all love to fly but at what price?

[itchy_feet]

Originally Posted by smiling monkey

Really? Just how many type rated and current E190 pilots are there in Australia?

E190, you could probably count them on 2 hands! E170 on the other hand a few more to the mix plus all the unemployed folks that went to the US.

[Icarus2001]

it almost makes more sense to use the time diversifying and learning new skills than continue in aviation earning that sort of money

Almost. Is that like being almost pregnant?

[Transition Layer]

Originally Posted by Icarus2001

Almost. Is that like being almost pregnant?

Edited, thanks Dicarus!

[lee_apromise]

Originally Posted by smiling monkey

Really? Just how many type rated and current E190 pilots are there in Australia?

I guess the answer depends on how many have returned from SkyWest in the U.S. But then not all chose ERJ AFAIK.

[TinFoilhat2]

Originally Posted by Beer Baron

TinFoilhat2 I can’t imagine why you show such venom toward Qantas pilots you have never met but I guess that is your own issue.

No one is suggesting that type rated pilots will not be employed, or that internal candidates will not be offered positions, simply that QF pilots will also be offered positions. There will be plenty of jobs across the dozen aircraft and no one group will land all the spots.

Money talks and to suggest that Qantas, with a bag full of cash, will have their request ignored indicates you don’t understand how a business works.

I’m sure when the day comes and an ex-Virgin pilot flies with an ex-Qantas pilot they will both be mature enough to hear the other remark about how a certain procedure was done at their previous company without getting their knickers in a twist. It is a shame that some on here can’t see past petty rivalries.

Hahahaha, look who is getting their knickers in a twist now!! No venom shown by me, I have no problem with anybody who is a QF pilot unless you know something about me that I dont. Thanks Mr Harvard grad for the business lesson, what would we do without you?

[TinFoilhat2]

Whats the average amount of monthly hours (in normal times) that an Alliance F100 pilot is flying per month and are the E-Jet pilots expected to do roughly the same, less or more taking the Qantas agreement into account.

[dr dre]

Originally Posted by Transition Layer

Those numbers are somewhat underwhelming!

Plenty of stood down QF drivers are finding jobs in other industries paying 6 figures. The opportunity is a great one for some QF people but it may make more sense to use the time diversifying and learning new skills than continue in aviation earning that sort of money. We all love to fly but at what price?

Are they? They’re still a lot more than the $0 a lot of redundant airline pilots around the world are making. Those numbers are still more than a lot of GA pilots would be making, the traditional recruitment source for airlines. Still more than a lot of turboprop pilots are making.

For a lot of pilots in aviation those figures will be a step up to fly a Jet in Australia. I think a lot of suitable pilots in the industry would love to fly at that price, especially as the current market is dictating.

[Transition Layer]

Originally Posted by dr dre

Are they? They’re still a lot more than the $0 a lot of redundant airline pilots around the world are making. Those numbers are still more than a lot of GA pilots would be making, the traditional recruitment source for airlines. Still more than a lot of turboprop pilots are making.

For a lot of pilots in aviation those figures will be a step up to fly a Jet in Australia. I think a lot of suitable pilots in the industry would love to fly at that price, especially as the current market is dictating.

I actually agree, which shows how much our industry is screwed, and was even before COVID.

Stood down pilots though are seeing what is out there in the broader economy. $150k ish to command an E Jet just doesn’t cut the mustard for the requirements and responsibilities involved. Heck you can get work on a mine for $110k driving a truck!!!

The average passenger sitting down the back on an Alliance mining charter is earning more than the FO. That’s just wrong

[lee_apromise]

Originally Posted by Transition Layer

The average passenger sitting down the back on an Alliance mining charter is earning more than the FO. That’s just wrong

You ever worked at those mining sites spending extended time away from the family doing night shifts?

Apples and oranges, talking about entitlements, jeez.

[dr dre]

Originally Posted by Transition Layer

I actually agree, which shows how much our industry is screwed, and was even before COVID.

Stood down pilots though are seeing what is out there in the broader economy. $150k ish to command an E Jet just doesn’t cut the mustard for the requirements and responsibilities involved. Heck you can get work on a mine for $110k driving a truck!!!

I’ve always said airline pilots and unions needed to be concentrating on the entry level parts of the industry, to ensure conditions there were good enough and career paths into airlines more definite so pilots wouldn’t be racing out of GA into jets as soon as possible. Alas pilots at the top only seem to be interested in feathering their own nests as much as possible, but then scratch their heads wondering why when pilots at the bottom on far worse conditions take jet jobs at lower pay than them.

Especially with what has happened in a particular union yesterday (deserves a thread of it’s own so I won’t say much in this one) I can’t see this situation changing.

Stood down airline pilots with a job to eventually return to may scoff at those conditions, but for a recently redundant GA pilot (how about one of many flying instructors who’ve been recently laid off due to the decimation of flight training in this country) would crawl over broken glass to get into a jet earning almost double their previous salary. Alliance will have no problems finding qualified pilots to fly these jets.

If they still have issues then they use Academy graduates. Every other nation puts 250hr pilots into jets without an issue, it’s even happened in Australia quite frequently over time. $106k plus bonus and allowances for an entry level job that doesn’t require a university degree (that will progress to a 35% payrise when taking command and more when flying widebodies, which sets it apart from truck driving in mines) is something that very few industries can offer, despite some at the top of this industry thinking that’s underpaid.

[neville_nobody]

I’ve always said airline pilots and unions needed to be concentrating on the entry level parts of the industry, to ensure conditions there were good enough and career paths into airlines more definite so pilots wouldn’t be racing out of GA into jets as soon as possible. Alas pilots at the top only seem to be interested in feathering their own nests as much as possible, but then scratch their heads wondering why when pilots at the bottom on far worse conditions take jet jobs at lower pay than them.

Problem is you can't afford to pay GA pilots 100K+ because they just don't generate enough revenue. Given the biggest GA aircraft is going to be a 19 seater you only have a limited market of paying customers.

Same with flying instructors. If you had to pay an instructor 150K a year and if they flew 1000 hours that's $150 an hour just for the instructor before you even start an engine.

If you then compare that to the seat cost per hour of an airline pilots, airline pilots are very cheap per seat because there 100+ of them to spread around cost of labour.

Anyway Alliance will have experienced type rated people falling over themselves at $150K for an Ejet regardless. Until people start resigning and going to other operators nothing will change on that front.