How good is Alliance!!!!
Originally Posted by MaxHelixAngle
The amount of misinformation here is astounding.
BeerBaron has knocked it on the head and is 100% correct.
As for all those whinging about QF pilots being told there will be LWOP opportunities - why shouldn’t they get first look in? Qantas is the customer here, and it is on the back of Qantas group demand that these opportunities have arisen. Qantas, have, and rightly so, asked that their stood down employees are given the opportunity to be considered. Alliance has agreed.
As for Stand down and IR law - barking up the wrong tree. In fact forest. LWOP opportunities will have no bearing on any future litigation - except perhaps in the court of public opinion.
BeerBaron has knocked it on the head and is 100% correct.
As for all those whinging about QF pilots being told there will be LWOP opportunities - why shouldn’t they get first look in? Qantas is the customer here, and it is on the back of Qantas group demand that these opportunities have arisen. Qantas, have, and rightly so, asked that their stood down employees are given the opportunity to be considered. Alliance has agreed.
As for Stand down and IR law - barking up the wrong tree. In fact forest. LWOP opportunities will have no bearing on any future litigation - except perhaps in the court of public opinion.
As a customer if I charter a QF jet I dont get to dictate terms in who flies the jet or how they conduct their MX. The same applies here. Alliance are doing work on behalf of Qantas, thereby helping them out. Its not to say a QF pilot cannot apply for a job but they will not get special privileges or assistance due to being a QF pilot, that much is clear!!
If QF do not like the arrangement they can get somebody else to do their regional flying. Clearly they do like the arrangement as they stuck with Alliance who are profitable and doing well.
Why would Alliance agree to crew aircraft with QF mainline international pilots, pay for training costs knowing full well they will return when their furlough exile ends and a seat opens up back in QF only for Alliance to have to hire a new pilot, pay for trianing (sim/flights/hotels) which is now double the initial cost, short answer they wont!!
Alliance will run their company as they see fit, crew their aircraft as they see fit. I realise the QF skygods are better than all of us mere mortals and it will come as a shock as to why Alliance does not beg them to fly their planes but in this instance they will be at the back of the queue.
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Tinfoil
What you say makes sense. Except the impetus for this is not from AIPA or from any mainline pilot.
It is from public statements by Gissing and an email from QF the chief pilot which says (and I quote directly) :
"Importantly, this flying will only commence once all our 737 pilots are stood up. The timing will depend on the rate of recovery in travel demand but is currently expected to start in June 2021. However if we experience more border closures which impacts our projected stand ups, then we have flexibility to delay the commencement of the Alliance flights. Alliance is keen to also provide opportunities for Qantas pilots and cabin crew to operate the E190s, particularly with international markets expected to take several years to fully recover. Alliance will cover training costs for successful applicants. We will send through details on this opportunity separately in the coming weeks "
Now I agree with you who knows what will happen. But these guys are not going to be saying any of this unless they believe it to be true. Because they dont need to. Its quite likely there will be backpedaling and a change of tune on all this later.
I realise this is upsetting for you and probably you feel you are going to be professionally effected. But ever since 1989 the entire history of pilots employment in the country has been one group getting ahead at the expense of others. Thats how it works in this part of the world unfortunately.
The training cost argument you lay out is logical, but again not an issue as I have it on good authority that QF will reimburse Alliance for any endorsement costs involved when a seconded pilot joins them and if in the future that pilot leaves.
So they wont be at the back of the queue. They will be at the front. And I am betting that if and when you get to fly with one of them you will find that the guy or girl sitting next to you is just like everyone else you work with.
At least in Qantas we dont overnight sleep in an aircraft with the APU running because we didn't get a hotel room and then exhaust all the fuel on board resulting in the fuel system needing to be re-primed before the aircraft's next flight.
What you say makes sense. Except the impetus for this is not from AIPA or from any mainline pilot.
It is from public statements by Gissing and an email from QF the chief pilot which says (and I quote directly) :
"Importantly, this flying will only commence once all our 737 pilots are stood up. The timing will depend on the rate of recovery in travel demand but is currently expected to start in June 2021. However if we experience more border closures which impacts our projected stand ups, then we have flexibility to delay the commencement of the Alliance flights. Alliance is keen to also provide opportunities for Qantas pilots and cabin crew to operate the E190s, particularly with international markets expected to take several years to fully recover. Alliance will cover training costs for successful applicants. We will send through details on this opportunity separately in the coming weeks "
Now I agree with you who knows what will happen. But these guys are not going to be saying any of this unless they believe it to be true. Because they dont need to. Its quite likely there will be backpedaling and a change of tune on all this later.
I realise this is upsetting for you and probably you feel you are going to be professionally effected. But ever since 1989 the entire history of pilots employment in the country has been one group getting ahead at the expense of others. Thats how it works in this part of the world unfortunately.
The training cost argument you lay out is logical, but again not an issue as I have it on good authority that QF will reimburse Alliance for any endorsement costs involved when a seconded pilot joins them and if in the future that pilot leaves.
So they wont be at the back of the queue. They will be at the front. And I am betting that if and when you get to fly with one of them you will find that the guy or girl sitting next to you is just like everyone else you work with.
At least in Qantas we dont overnight sleep in an aircraft with the APU running because we didn't get a hotel room and then exhaust all the fuel on board resulting in the fuel system needing to be re-primed before the aircraft's next flight.
Originally Posted by Kaboobla
Tinfoil
What you say makes sense. Except the impetus for this is not from AIPA or from any mainline pilot.
It is from public statements by Gissing and an email from QF the chief pilot which says (and I quote directly) :
"Importantly, this flying will only commence once all our 737 pilots are stood up. The timing will depend on the rate of recovery in travel demand but is currently expected to start in June 2021. However if we experience more border closures which impacts our projected stand ups, then we have flexibility to delay the commencement of the Alliance flights. Alliance is keen to also provide opportunities for Qantas pilots and cabin crew to operate the E190s, particularly with international markets expected to take several years to fully recover. Alliance will cover training costs for successful applicants. We will send through details on this opportunity separately in the coming weeks "
Now I agree with you who knows what will happen. But these guys are not going to be saying any of this unless they believe it to be true. Because they dont need to. Its quite likely there will be backpedaling and a change of tune on all this later.
I realise this is upsetting for you and probably you feel you are going to be professionally effected. But ever since 1989 the entire history of pilots employment in the country has been one group getting ahead at the expense of others. Thats how it works in this part of the world unfortunately.
The training cost argument you lay out is logical, but again not an issue as I have it on good authority that QF will reimburse Alliance for any endorsement costs involved when a seconded pilot joins them and if in the future that pilot leaves.
So they wont be at the back of the queue. They will be at the front. And I am betting that if and when you get to fly with one of them you will find that the guy or girl sitting next to you is just like everyone else you work with.
At least in Qantas we dont overnight sleep in an aircraft with the APU running because we didn't get a hotel room and then exhaust all the fuel on board resulting in the fuel system needing to be re-primed before the aircraft's next flight.
What you say makes sense. Except the impetus for this is not from AIPA or from any mainline pilot.
It is from public statements by Gissing and an email from QF the chief pilot which says (and I quote directly) :
"Importantly, this flying will only commence once all our 737 pilots are stood up. The timing will depend on the rate of recovery in travel demand but is currently expected to start in June 2021. However if we experience more border closures which impacts our projected stand ups, then we have flexibility to delay the commencement of the Alliance flights. Alliance is keen to also provide opportunities for Qantas pilots and cabin crew to operate the E190s, particularly with international markets expected to take several years to fully recover. Alliance will cover training costs for successful applicants. We will send through details on this opportunity separately in the coming weeks "
Now I agree with you who knows what will happen. But these guys are not going to be saying any of this unless they believe it to be true. Because they dont need to. Its quite likely there will be backpedaling and a change of tune on all this later.
I realise this is upsetting for you and probably you feel you are going to be professionally effected. But ever since 1989 the entire history of pilots employment in the country has been one group getting ahead at the expense of others. Thats how it works in this part of the world unfortunately.
The training cost argument you lay out is logical, but again not an issue as I have it on good authority that QF will reimburse Alliance for any endorsement costs involved when a seconded pilot joins them and if in the future that pilot leaves.
So they wont be at the back of the queue. They will be at the front. And I am betting that if and when you get to fly with one of them you will find that the guy or girl sitting next to you is just like everyone else you work with.
At least in Qantas we dont overnight sleep in an aircraft with the APU running because we didn't get a hotel room and then exhaust all the fuel on board resulting in the fuel system needing to be re-primed before the aircraft's next flight.
Im sure if QF pays to train up all of these crews then yes, they will take some of their crew until they return to Qantas. Of course as you correctly point out there most likely will be some back peddling at some stage, this is aviation so Im sure no-one will be surprised by that.
However ultimately Alliance will have the final say on everything and rightly so. Of course business and making money will dictate those decisions which they will have to live with and justify. I do know type rated E-Jet 190 pilots are highly sort after at present because they literally have no E-Jet pilots in Alliance and CASA does not want green on green flying together if it can be avoided, that I have on good authority.
Im not sure how many E-jet pilots are or have returned from the US but for 30 jets their simply will not be enough type rated guys and gals.
Originally Posted by Kaboobla
At least in Qantas we dont overnight sleep in an aircraft with the APU running because we didn't get a hotel room and then exhaust all the fuel on board resulting in the fuel system needing to be re-primed before the aircraft's next flight.
Who are you referring to?
Kaboobla, either a good wind up or you cannot read. No one is leasing the Ejets, they were purchased by Alliance/Bravo. If you believe the ASX release to be wrong then report it to ACCC.
Also...
Also...
UYW
UYW
Manufacturer:
EMBRAER - EMPRESA BRASILEIRA DE AERONAUTICA S.A.
Model:
ERJ 190-100 IGW
Serial number:
19000174
No of engines:
2
Aircraft first registered in Australia:
24 December 2020
Year of manufacture:
2008
Registration holder:
BRAVO AIRLINES PTY LIMITED PO Box 1126 EAGLE FARM QLD 4009 Australia
Registration holder commencement date:
24 December 2020
Registered operator:
ALLIANCE AIRLINES PTY LIMITED 81 Pandanus Ave EAGLE FARM QLD 4009 Australia
Registered operator commencement date:
24 December 2020
EMBRAER - EMPRESA BRASILEIRA DE AERONAUTICA S.A.
Model:
ERJ 190-100 IGW
Serial number:
19000174
No of engines:
2
Aircraft first registered in Australia:
24 December 2020
Year of manufacture:
2008
Registration holder:
BRAVO AIRLINES PTY LIMITED PO Box 1126 EAGLE FARM QLD 4009 Australia
Registration holder commencement date:
24 December 2020
Registered operator:
ALLIANCE AIRLINES PTY LIMITED 81 Pandanus Ave EAGLE FARM QLD 4009 Australia
Registered operator commencement date:
24 December 2020
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Originally Posted by TinFoilhat2
I realise the QF skygods are better than all of us mere mortals and it will come as a shock as to why Alliance does not beg them to fly their planes but in this instance they will be at the back of the queue.
Originally Posted by TinFoilhat2
I can promise you now, no long haul QF pilot will get a seat over another qualified (especially type rated) pilot knowing their intention is to return to Qantas.
I understand wet leasing, thanks! Re-read BeerBaron and my post. Alliance has not said they will fly with QF crew but have agreed to give stood down QF crew a look in and won't levy any training costs. This would have been an agreement reached between QF and Alliance during negotiations over the contract (a contract that will impact Alliances turnover by more than 5%!).
TinFoilHat2 - your posts are a bit of a joke.
Originally Posted by MaxHelixAngle
Why the chip on your shoulder? It's even more abhorrent in present times.
Haha. How can you make this statement when public disclosures from Alliance say otherwise, AND as posted on here, comments from the Qantas CP show that stood down QF crew will get a look in?
I understand wet leasing, thanks! Re-read BeerBaron and my post. Alliance has not said they will fly with QF crew but have agreed to give stood down QF crew a look in and won't levy any training costs. This would have been an agreement reached between QF and Alliance during negotiations over the contract (a contract that will impact Alliances turnover by more than 5%!).
TinFoilHat2 - your posts are a bit of a joke.
Haha. How can you make this statement when public disclosures from Alliance say otherwise, AND as posted on here, comments from the Qantas CP show that stood down QF crew will get a look in?
I understand wet leasing, thanks! Re-read BeerBaron and my post. Alliance has not said they will fly with QF crew but have agreed to give stood down QF crew a look in and won't levy any training costs. This would have been an agreement reached between QF and Alliance during negotiations over the contract (a contract that will impact Alliances turnover by more than 5%!).
TinFoilHat2 - your posts are a bit of a joke.
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Might be a few ex Virgin 330 and 777 crew with E-jet ratings available. Virgin getting rid of the E-jets was one of the many many poor decisions made by management over the past decade. Ironic now they are back in even greater numbers.😳
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Originally Posted by TinFoilhat2
Im pretty sure you dont understand wet leasing as you have clearly demonstrated. Alliance are targeting type rated guys first over anyone, I have that on good authority (whether you believe me or not, I dont care). This includes over ANY and ALL QF staff, long or short haul. If it comes down to a type rated E-Jet pilot and a QF A380 pilot I can promise you now the QF pilot will be disappointed!!
Confirmed today (again) that QF pilots as direct entry captains will occur.
Originally Posted by Kaboobla
Confirmed today (again) that QF pilots as direct entry captains will occur.
You can cry all you want that Alliance has the final say in who it hired. Unless of course you have a client willing to give you millions of dollars worth of work over a long period. This changes the rules and don't forget Qantas owns just under 20% so I think they have a big say.
Originally Posted by Kaboobla
Who is your source and on what authority - because unless its very senior management of Alliance, and by that I dont mean flight ops management pilots - then what you have been told is wrong.
Confirmed today (again) that QF pilots as direct entry captains will occur.
Confirmed today (again) that QF pilots as direct entry captains will occur.
A lot of F100 pilots are not actually interested in doing a new type rating and are happy where they are but Alliance pilots will definitely get a look in before QF pilots. VA E-jet pilots will and have already been hired in some capacity, especially trainers ho are presently in the sim as we speak.
TinFoilhat2 I can’t imagine why you show such venom toward Qantas pilots you have never met but I guess that is your own issue.
No one is suggesting that type rated pilots will not be employed, or that internal candidates will not be offered positions, simply that QF pilots will also be offered positions. There will be plenty of jobs across the dozen aircraft and no one group will land all the spots.
Money talks and to suggest that Qantas, with a bag full of cash, will have their request ignored indicates you don’t understand how a business works.
I’m sure when the day comes and an ex-Virgin pilot flies with an ex-Qantas pilot they will both be mature enough to hear the other remark about how a certain procedure was done at their previous company without getting their knickers in a twist. It is a shame that some on here can’t see past petty rivalries.
No one is suggesting that type rated pilots will not be employed, or that internal candidates will not be offered positions, simply that QF pilots will also be offered positions. There will be plenty of jobs across the dozen aircraft and no one group will land all the spots.
Money talks and to suggest that Qantas, with a bag full of cash, will have their request ignored indicates you don’t understand how a business works.
I’m sure when the day comes and an ex-Virgin pilot flies with an ex-Qantas pilot they will both be mature enough to hear the other remark about how a certain procedure was done at their previous company without getting their knickers in a twist. It is a shame that some on here can’t see past petty rivalries.
Originally Posted by brokenagain
Imagine how much ‘back at Qantas we did it like this’ there will be? Will the ego’s fit in such a small cockpit?
You could insert any airline but especially the RAAF into "back at xxx we did it like this" quite easily too. Some who have spent a long time in one organisation, especially one that becomes such a big part of your life, can have some unshakeable attitudes. But considering mainline pilots have done LWOP periods everywhere from freight to ME to Asia to other Aus airlines I can't see there being too much of an issue with their attitudes adapting to an E-Jet, especially since most would've had two years out of the flight deck and be grateful for the opportunity to fly.
Originally Posted by brokenagain
Imagine how much ‘back at Qantas we did it like this’ there will be? Will the ego’s fit in such a small cockpit?
Personally, as a commuting 767 pilot, I would often sit on the 737 jump-seat thinking "Why don't we do that?" and only occasionally wondering why they did something different to our 767 procedure. If I asked, it would usually be pointed out that particular procedure is critical in one circumstance but not so in others, but logically applied as a SOP for any occurrence.
Yes, a few Boeing pilots did transfer to the Airbus fleets and wanted to Boeing-ise them. They were largely unsuccessful.
Most Qantas Pilots going to Alliance will be happy to have a job and a new type to learn. You'll obviously be very surprised that the average Qantas pilot is just like most other pilots; proud of having achieved an airline job but humble and ready to learn.
