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Qantas mainline brings 717’s in house

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Qantas mainline brings 717’s in house

Old 21st May 2020, 02:40
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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but what aircraft has a better business case between the F100 and 717?
Well the 717 has 25% more seating capacity for around the same costs. 125 vs 100 passengers.
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Old 21st May 2020, 04:00
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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I think this is a clever move. Qantas would have probably wanted to get the 717's up and going again soon to get the domestic market rolling. But how do you justify to all the stood down mainline pilots that contractors flying Qantas planes will be earning a pay packet before them? Answer, bring them in house.
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Old 21st May 2020, 04:48
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Advent International, the private equity firm who acquired Cobham put the sale sign up on the Australian passenger operation at the start of this year. Qantas ‘won’ the process, and probably they were the only bidder. QF have a strategic place for Cobham (right aircraft, right route &#129326.

Qantas did not pursue a takeover...Cobham was up for sale and unless QF came to the party, Advent would possibly shut down the operation.

Covid-19 recovery will mean the 717 will continue to have its place in markets previously flown by the 737. Nothing has changed. What did change was the possible risk of a new owner or more likely no owner. Qantas now retain control. They had no choice.
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Old 21st May 2020, 07:38
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wotsitdoin View Post
I think this is a clever move. Qantas would have probably wanted to get the 717's up and going again soon to get the domestic market rolling. But how do you justify to all the stood down mainline pilots that contractors flying Qantas planes will be earning a pay packet before them? Answer, bring them in house.
That is what I was wondering about, is there some assurance that the 717s won’t be flown by the stood down and potentially redundant mainline drivers of soon to be retired or long grounded fleets? None of the articles seem to be very clear on what sort of “entity” will actually fly them in the future.

As you alluded to, I can’t imagine it will be sunshine and rainbows at QF when the senior mainline guys who could be out of a job are given marching orders and the new kids on the block start getting paid those Qantas dollars. But unprecedented times are upon us so anything is possible at this stage, hopefully no one gets shafted here. I’d be assuming a totally seperate company within the group on a seperate seniority list is the only option to keep the operation cheap and the wages down.
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Old 21st May 2020, 07:51
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Snoop

Originally Posted by LostWanderer View Post
That is what I was wondering about, is there some assurance that the 717s won’t be flown by the stood down and potentially redundant mainline drivers of soon to be retired or long grounded fleets? None of the articles seem to be very clear on what sort of “entity” will actually fly them in the future.


Time to don our tin hats folks,,
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Old 21st May 2020, 08:35
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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The new Cobham is a subsidiary. There is no basis for displaced Mainline pilots to then displace subsidiary pilots. It won’t happen. There just can’t be recruitment into a lower cost subsidiary whilst a Mainline pilot is retrenched. If any group needs to don tin foil hats, it would be Jetconnect. I can’t see how they can operate one flight until all Mainline 737 pilots are back on line, although it’s far from clear cut.

Last edited by crosscutter; 21st May 2020 at 08:49.
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Old 21st May 2020, 08:41
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LostWanderer View Post
That is what I was wondering about, is there some assurance that the 717s won’t be flown by the stood down and potentially redundant mainline drivers of soon to be retired or long grounded fleets? None of the articles seem to be very clear on what sort of “entity” will actually fly them in the future.
The transaction and ongoing operation is no different to when Qantas bought Network. Qantas have purchased the Cobham business unit "National Jet Systems" which holds the B717 AOC and employs the crew who operate them.

There will be some jiggery pokery behind the scenes excising any relevant CAMO/Operations/Safety/Quality functions from shared departments within Cobham.

What happens going forward with Cobham Engineering support at various bases will have to be figured out as well.
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Old 21st May 2020, 08:50
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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I hope that Qantas finally spends some money restoring the interior of the B717’s - they’ve been looking very shoddy for a long time.
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Old 21st May 2020, 09:18
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Wow alot of paranoid conspiracy theorists here

Nothing is going to change with the new ownership structure that couldn't have happened before anyway. Qantas will use the aircraft however they want and will pay the crews directly vs via Cobham.

A win for the 717 crews but but otherwise ops normal.
Qantas were already calling the shots on the operation and the crew all had QF staff numbers previously.
Any tardiness in the operation is entirely QF doing as they own majority of the frames, determine the spares inventory, even determine the crewing levels and run the day of operations, I believe they even did half of the maintainance having taken most of it from Cobham years ago.

For all the naysayers, the only people with the potential to loose from this are some back.office and management types in Adelaide, even so it would be reasonable to assume many will be absorbed into the rest of the Cobham operation .

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Old 21st May 2020, 09:23
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Originally Posted by LostWanderer View Post
That is what I was wondering about, is there some assurance that the 717s won’t be flown by the stood down and potentially redundant mainline drivers of soon to be retired or long grounded fleets? None of the articles seem to be very clear on what sort of “entity” will actually fly them in the future.

As you alluded to, I can’t imagine it will be sunshine and rainbows at QF when the senior mainline guys who could be out of a job are given marching orders and the new kids on the block start getting paid those Qantas dollars. But unprecedented times are upon us so anything is possible at this stage, hopefully no one gets shafted here. I’d be assuming a totally seperate company within the group on a seperate seniority list is the only option to keep the operation cheap and the wages down.
The articles are pretty clear it's the existing 717 crews. Common sense would back that up incase you were wondering whether QF would get rid of a bunch of trained crews to do what..... train new ones all over again?
NJS have thier own EBA and operate as a subsidiary, there is no ability to have people move in displace anyone.
Playing the subsidiaries against each other is also going to be no different to the past, infact Cobham 717 crews did pretty well out of thier last EBA.
In one guise or another NJS has been working for Qantas for about as long as Qantas have operated 737s so no need for panic.

Last edited by Lapon; 21st May 2020 at 09:39.
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Old 21st May 2020, 09:38
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So- have, a 'Tin' Hard-Hat to hand..............., for want of a 'term'!!!!!

Question (e.g. what Mr 'Lapon' is talking about/has said).- 'Whom' may 'own' these 'fcukers' (all the way back, since Gerry and Geoff, had a meal/feed....together), and then/therefore, 'whom' per-chance- 'may' have 'had' a commission to operate the fcukin things.............. of times, 'recent'...?????

Just a question, all good/Ta
Rgds
S28
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Old 21st May 2020, 11:09
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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National Jet Systems started operating the BAe 146 Australian Airlines in 1990
National Jet Systems was sold to Cobham in 1999.
in late 2019 Advent bought Cobham, which includes NJS.
recently, (like 2 days ago) we discovered Qantas bought NJS, a small pRt of Advent/Cobham.

NJS began operating BAe146 for Australian Airlines (now Qantas).
Qantas made the decision to change from 146 - 717 in 2005.

Through those changes pilot conditions were determined by their current agreement.the conditions will be as per your current agreement. You may notice a slight change in format on your payslip, nothing else, it will stillsay National Jet Systems!

Initially AWA now the current EBA.
NOTHING has changed for the employees except the owner Advent - Qantas and hopefully a little more security. You were ALWAYS employed by NJS!

People dreaming they will be fast tracked to mainline are doing just that “dreaming”.
the best template is Network. Look at their progress and you will probably get an idea of the NJS progress, minimal at best.

In the future, yes maybe changes. COVID may/will create the biggest opportunity for more or less aircraft.

As far as conditions are concerned, look at your current agreement, that’s what you agreed to with NJS. You are still employed by NJS,

as for other entities taking NJS jobs, can’t happen.

Last edited by RENURPP; 21st May 2020 at 11:36.
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Old 21st May 2020, 11:20
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RENURPP View Post
National Jet Systems started operating the BAe 146 Australian Airlines in 1990
National Jet Systems was sold to Cobham in 1999.
in late 2019 Advent bought Cobham, which includes NJS.
recently, (like 2 days ago) we discovered Qantas bought NJS

NJS began operating BAe146 for Australian Airlines (now Qantas).
Qantas made the decision to change from 146 - 717 in 2005.

Through those changes pilot conditions were determined by their current agreement.
Initially AWA now the current EBA.
NOTHING has changed for the employees except the owner Advent - Qantas and hopefully a little more security.

People dreaming they will be fast tracked to mainline are doing just that “dreaming”.
the best template is Network. Look at their progress and you will probably get an idea of the NJS progress, minimal at best.




In the future, yes maybe changes, no different to before. COVID may/will create the biggest opportunity for more or less aircraft.
Well put RENURPP.

The only significant change to career prospects will be the ability to apply for QF group positions as an internal applicant vs an external for those interested in moving.
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Old 21st May 2020, 11:34
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lapon View Post
Well put RENURPP.

The only significant change to career prospects will be the ability to apply for QF group positions as an internal applicant vs an external for those interested in moving.
NJS were already considered internal applicants due to the effect on the 717 operation when QF hired too many NJS crew. You’ll find now however a lot of NJS crew on the hold file won’t be interested in Mainline anymore.
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Old 21st May 2020, 11:35
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lapon View Post
Well put RENURPP.

The only significant change to career prospects will be the ability to apply for QF group positions as an internal applicant vs an external for those interested in moving.
if qantas mainline are hiring again before 2025 I’d be very surprised (that goes for most group airlines too).
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Old 21st May 2020, 12:49
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy View Post
NJS were already considered internal applicants due to the effect on the 717 operation when QF hired too many NJS crew. You’ll find now however a lot of NJS crew on the hold file won’t be interested in Mainline anymore.
I only know from friends caught it in. They were never able to apply as internals, only as externals.

With all of the past hiring I would assume most who wanted to move have had a shot anyway.
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Old 21st May 2020, 15:48
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Originally Posted by Capt Claret View Post
The DC9 and 737 both started their life in 1963, so if the 717 is a grim aircraft based on its original design age, so too is the 737.

I think you might be surprised at the passenger appeal.
Maybe it's just me but when someone says DC-9 (or B -717) the picture that comes to mind is dark, crowded and uncomfortable. Maybe I flew on too many in the USA
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Old 21st May 2020, 21:13
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
Maybe it's just me but when someone says DC-9 (or B -717) the picture that comes to mind is dark, crowded and uncomfortable. Maybe I flew on too many in the USA
Is that not every short haul airline pre-covid?
The welcome lack of a middle seat on one side was the only discernable difference I had ever noticed.
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Old 21st May 2020, 21:55
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
Maybe it's just me but when someone says DC-9 (or B -717) the picture that comes to mind is dark, crowded and uncomfortable. Maybe I flew on too many in the USA
have a look at these pics. There are some that include the business class seats. The second link is the flight deck. It’s a little more modern than a DC-9 which is the 3rd link.https://www.google.com.au/search?q=q...VyUhpc8B9JwNM:
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=d...9dzyxt3gl-sNM:




Last edited by RENURPP; 21st May 2020 at 22:06.
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Old 21st May 2020, 22:17
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Eastern should’ve been flying these Jets in-house since their arrival. Another knife in the back to the long serving Link pilots, many of who had plenty of jet time pre 1989.
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