Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Time for a reality Check

Old 16th May 2020, 08:28
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Time for a reality Check

Some of guys need to get out of the Shire, and stop relying on Channel 9 and CNN for your news.
The only impediment to travel returning to normal are the Governments of the World.

Germany are opening their borders. Firstly with Austria, but have said they will be open for EU and Schengen countries for Summer.
Greece will be open for the Summer holiday season.
Italy have set up beaches to comply with Social Distancing measures, for summer.
Spain has introduced a 14 day quarantine period for arrivals. The quarantine period applies from the 15th till 24th of May only. So if you arrive on the 24th, you go into quarantine. Arrive 25th, straight to the beach.
England has imposed restrictions, with exemptions.
Carnival Cruise Line (everyone's favourite floating petri dish) reopened booking from the 1st of August. Demand is up 600% on this time last year.
The Business World is screaming to be allowed to travel again.

Just to name a few. As soon as restictions are lifted, people are going to travel for the sake of travelling. An airline in America is reporting strong demand as people just travel to visit family. Jobless, debt, wont be a deterrent. Another few $k on the credit card will not even be an after thought.

The media is doing more damage than the virus itself. And it feeds the uneducated massess in overhyped hysteria.
This morning's story CNN is that there are not enough syringes to vaccinate people if a vaccine was available. Considering that the same outlet has been stating for months that a vaccine is 12-18 months away, who cares about syringes right now. If you look into it a bit more, you will see that the US Govenrment took steps in January to obtain 100's of Millions more syringes. Just a beat up story for the sake of a story to promote an agenda.

2 weeks ago the worst was still to come for England. Now all of a sudden, things are improving and it is time to get back to work. Bu11sh1t!

There are other examples of inadequate or flawed testing policy. The death figures are skewed towards making COVID-19 worse than it is.

How many of you actually know someone who has or has had the virus? Only 700 people in Australia currently have the virus. 43% of ALL deaths have come from 2 sources, The Ruby Princess and the Nursing home in Western Sydney.

And for all that, people think the Governments response of have hearted shut down (it wasn't even a proper or effective shutdown) of the country that has financially grippled Australia for 1 or 2 Generations is a reasonable action.
We are now just destroying the World for no tangible benefit.
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Old 16th May 2020, 08:33
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Is that you Donald?
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Old 16th May 2020, 08:38
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"Jobless, debt, wont be a deterrent. Another few $k on the credit card will not even be an after thought."

It will be for me my friend!, a few $K on a credit card!, NUP!!!, no way!!
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Old 16th May 2020, 08:43
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It blows me away how prune used to be a place where you got considered opinion and good gen on all things aviation and now it is like bumping into a drunk narcissist outside a pub at 2am. Maybe a victim of its own success?
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Old 16th May 2020, 08:44
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Originally Posted by IBE8720 View Post
Some of guys need to get out of the Shire, and stop relying on Channel 9 and CNN for your news.
The only impediment to travel returning to normal are the Governments of the World.

Germany are opening their borders. Firstly with Austria, but have said they will be open for EU and Schengen countries for Summer.
Greece will be open for the Summer holiday season.
Italy have set up beaches to comply with Social Distancing measures, for summer.
Spain has introduced a 14 day quarantine period for arrivals. The quarantine period applies from the 15th till 24th of May only. So if you arrive on the 24th, you go into quarantine. Arrive 25th, straight to the beach.
England has imposed restrictions, with exemptions.
Carnival Cruise Line (everyone's favourite floating petri dish) reopened booking from the 1st of August. Demand is up 600% on this time last year.
The Business World is screaming to be allowed to travel again.

Just to name a few. As soon as restictions are lifted, people are going to travel for the sake of travelling. An airline in America is reporting strong demand as people just travel to visit family. Jobless, debt, wont be a deterrent. Another few $k on the credit card will not even be an after thought.

The media is doing more damage than the virus itself. And it feeds the uneducated massess in overhyped hysteria.
This morning's story CNN is that there are not enough syringes to vaccinate people if a vaccine was available. Considering that the same outlet has been stating for months that a vaccine is 12-18 months away, who cares about syringes right now. If you look into it a bit more, you will see that the US Govenrment took steps in January to obtain 100's of Millions more syringes. Just a beat up story for the sake of a story to promote an agenda.

2 weeks ago the worst was still to come for England. Now all of a sudden, things are improving and it is time to get back to work. Bu11sh1t!

There are other examples of inadequate or flawed testing policy. The death figures are skewed towards making COVID-19 worse than it is.

How many of you actually know someone who has or has had the virus? Only 700 people in Australia currently have the virus. 43% of ALL deaths have come from 2 sources, The Ruby Princess and the Nursing home in Western Sydney.

And for all that, people think the Governments response of have hearted shut down (it wasn't even a proper or effective shutdown) of the country that has financially grippled Australia for 1 or 2 Generations is a reasonable action.
We are now just destroying the World for no tangible benefit.
Every pilot has everything to gain from the world ignoring the virus and snapping back to pre COVID19 normality.

Unfortunately for our careers thatís not going to happen, but to try and say that there is Ďno tangible benefití to keeping our infections to 7000 and deaths to only 100ish is pretty rediculous.
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Old 16th May 2020, 08:47
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Originally Posted by IBE8720 View Post

The media...feeds the uneducated massess in overhyped hysteria.
.
Overhyped? More than 300,000 dead people probably disagree, and imagine the figure the media had not ďoverhypedĒ

And in the Australian case, we are on 4 deaths per million, while the UK is on 400 per million. Australia would have 10,000 dead in that scenario.

Weíve dodged a bullet so far..
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Old 16th May 2020, 08:50
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And a reality check for you. This is an anonymous Internet forum. Your manifesto won’t change a thing here.
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Old 16th May 2020, 08:57
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Originally Posted by IBE8720 View Post
Carnival Cruise Line (everyone's favourite floating petri dish) reopened booking from the 1st of August. Demand is up 600% on this time last year.
Fact checking just one of your claims shows that youíre full of BS (see link below).

Bookings (according to tabloid TMZ) are up 600% for a single day - based on a day three days prior. And for that single day, bookings are up (a conveniently rounded) 200% when compared to the same day 12-months ago.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/carni...091447018.html

The rest of our nonsense is just that. And if I wasted my time fact checking all your baseless claims, Iím sure it would all fall apart.
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Old 16th May 2020, 09:23
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I think the OP needs a reality check.
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Old 16th May 2020, 10:03
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Anyone who says they know how this will play out is lying. Yes it could be as bad as forecast but equally might be like the GFC when the world recovered much faster than forecast. So many variables, a number of very promising looking antibody treatments and a couple of vaccines progressing well. COVID is unpredictable and could disappear or it could come back with a bang.

This thing could turn on a dime either way, recovery in flying is already ahead of the curve according to a union briefing I was at last week in terms of a return to the sky. Will there be demand.... who would know. This is unlike any economic crash experienced in modern times, the underlying fabric of the financial system is not broken. I say the best we can do is sit tight, keep calm and carry on.
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Old 16th May 2020, 10:20
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Originally Posted by SOPS View Post
I think the OP needs a reality check.
I disagree.
I think heís absolutely correct.
If the Ruby Princess hadnít disembarked any passengers in Sydney, weíd probably only have about a dozen cases in Australia in total.
The whole Coronavirus issue has been blown out of all proportion!
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Old 16th May 2020, 10:25
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Really, more than 300.000 dead so far is blown out of proportion.....oooookkkkkk.
One person brings it into a meatworks and 100 people get it.....ooooookkkkkk
If it gets into an old folks home it cleans them out but that’s overblown......ooooookkkkk
2 choices in this
Close the borders, destroy the economy, relatively low deaths rate.
don’t close the borders, destroy the economy, pretty impressive death rates.
Maybe America is better for you BW

But an interesting question would be did the Tiger and Vanz crews get retrenched because of Covid or just with it?

Last edited by ozbiggles; 16th May 2020 at 11:22.
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Old 16th May 2020, 10:32
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Funny... 30+ million in the US unemployed.

Hereís an incomplete list of bankruptcies or at least closing closing swathes of stores: Neiman Marcis, JC Penney, Dean & Deluca, Apex Parks, True Religion, Golds Gym, Sears. Nordstrom. GameShop, Pier 1, Papyrus, GAP, Walgreens (without Elizabethís help this time!) Chicoís, Destination Maternity, Forever 21, Modells, AC Moore, Macyís, Art Van, Bose, Olympia Sports, Earth Farr, KMart, Bed Bath & Beyond, Luckyís Market, Express, Nordstrom, Hallmark and evening some Walmart stores.

Thatís a lot of people not jumping on jets to see their families or go on holidays....

Then there are airlines, hotels and hospitality...
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Old 16th May 2020, 10:41
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I tend to agree with the OP.

There is also a big difference between dying OF Covid 19 and dying WITH Covid 19. A subtle but huge medical difference lost on the media.

How many people under seventy, otherwise healthy have died?

The media coverage has been and still is appalling, doom and gloom at every turn.

https://www.health.gov.au/news/healt...d-case-numbers
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Old 16th May 2020, 10:47
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Well Icarus are you happy to volunteer your oldies as Tribute?

And I reckon a fair few of the 300,000 so far died because of it....
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Old 16th May 2020, 10:53
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Ex ABC- Sailors on sidelined carrier get coronavirus for the second time.......

Who knew??- 'Herd Immunity' 'may-not' be an option..............

Extract/s here:

Five US sailors on an aircraft carrier sidelined in Guam due to a COVID-19 outbreak have tested positive for the virus for the second time and have been taken off the ship, according to the US Navy.
All five sailors had previously tested positive and had gone through at least two weeks of isolation.

As part of the process, they all had to test negative twice in a row, with the tests separated by a day or two, before they were allowed to go back to the ship.
Article link here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-...id-19/12255468

Rgds all
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Old 16th May 2020, 10:54
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My doctor told me if I didnít stop smoking and drinking and didnít eat better Iíd die.
So I stopped drinking and smoking, I ate healthy.

Now I think that doctor didnít know what he was talking about because Iím still here.
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Old 16th May 2020, 11:28
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Secondary positive tests are well documented, remnants of the virus can remain in lung/nasal tissue for many months after the infection. It is not active virus but will trigger a ‘weak’ positive test due to the test detecting the virus RNA left in fragments. These cases are NOT infected for a second time or indeed infectious any more. It is because of these 2nd positives that NZ does not require a follow up test to classify you as recovered, you must be at least 14 days since initial positive test and deemed to be symptom free for 48 hours or more.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/c...20-4?r=US&IR=T
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Old 16th May 2020, 11:30
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I absolutely agree with OP.

What we are doing is bizarre to say the least - we are generally supporting our government in their decision to kill our economy more surely than COVID would ever kill the numbers that commentators are bandying around.

In April alone, 75 Australians lost their lives on the roads of this nation. Should we then ban cars and driving?

Influenza kills between 250,000 and 500,000 people annually around the world. The COVID mortality numbers are slowly reducing and may not reach the upper end of the flu’s deaths.

The difference in this case too is that most western democratic countries in the world have right royally stuffed their own economies and ruined millions of lives for years to come simply because of the panic associated with its spread.

If anyone wants to see an example of reasoned governmental decision-making in relation to COVID, just look at Sweden. They have readily accepted that a very small percentage of their population would succumb to the illness, but have chosen to continue life basically unchanged. They have been quoted as saying that the population can generally be trusted to do the right thing. The population is behaving in a trustworthy way and enjoying life (for the most part) as normal.

Sure, the numbers per se look intimidating. I’m also sure that plays right into the hands of those who stand to gain from the changes being forced upon us.

When you look at percentages though, the numbers are equally surprising, but for an entirely different reason; only a tiny percentage of the population are unlucky enough to die from the disease. Only a very small percentage are ever diagnosed with it. The truth of the matter is that most of us will get it (or have already had it) and won’t even know about it. We’ll just think we’re suffering from a bad cold or minor flu.

Yet our day-to-day lives have been turned upside down.

I’m gobsmacked that posters on this forum fall into the trap of posing emotive questions relating to how we’d feel if one of our relatives were included in the statistics. Protect your vulnerable relatives as best you can and the chances of them coming down with this will be minimal.

So yes, I would gladly see all restrictions lifted, the economy opened up, and take the risk. After all, I let all my relatives drive in cars...

For those who want to hear the percentages and Sweden's response, just google 'Johan Giesecke asks Australia how to lift its lockdown without deaths'. Extremely interesting few minutes, and just makes it so abundantly clear that we've gone down the wrong path. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I'm starting to think that there's some other reason why we've included ourselves among the countries that have chosen the 'lockdown' path.

Last edited by RAD_ALT_ALIVE; 16th May 2020 at 11:44.
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Old 16th May 2020, 11:42
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Perspective ?

Maybe we don't have it that bad?



Itís a mess out there now. Hard to discern between whatís a real threat and what is just simple panic and hysteria. For a small amount of perspective at this moment, imagine you were born in 1900.



On your 14th birthday, World War I starts, and ends on your 18th birthday. 22 million people perish in that war. Later in the year, a Spanish Flu epidemic hits the planet and runs until your 20th birthday. 50 million people die from it in those two years. Yes, 50 million.



On your 29th birthday, the Great Depression begins. Unemployment hits 25%, the World GDP drops 27%. That runs until you are 33. The country nearly collapses along with the world economy.



When you turn 39, World War II starts. You arenít even over the hill yet. And donít try to catch your breath. On your 41st birthday, the United States is fully pulled into WWII. Between your 39th and 45th birthday, 75 million people perish in the war.



Smallpox was epidemic until you were in your 40ís, as it killed 300 million people during your lifetime.



At 50, the Korean War starts. 5 million perish. From your birth, until you are 55 you dealt with the fear of Polio epidemics each summer. You experience friends and family contracting polio and being paralyzed and/or die.



At 55 the Vietnam War begins and doesnít end for 20 years. 4 million people perish in that conflict. During the Cold War, you lived each day with the fear of nuclear annihilation. On your 62nd birthday you have the Cuban Missile Crisis, a tipping point in the Cold War. Life on our planet, as we know it, almost ended. When you turn 75, the Vietnam War finally ends.



Think of everyone on the planet born in 1900. How did theyendure all of that? When you were a kid in 1985 and didnít think your 85 year old grandparent understood how hard school was. And how mean that kid in your class was. Yet they survived through everything listed above. Perspective is an amazing art. Refined and enlightening as time goes on. Letís try and keep things in perspective. Your parents and/or grandparents were called to endure all of the above Ė you are called to stay home and sit on your couch.

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