Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Time for a reality Check

Old 14th Jul 2020, 10:46
  #541 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Who is a credible source then? Alex Jones?
Are you serious? I'd no sooner listen to that arseclown than a PPRuNe expert.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 10:49
  #542 (permalink)  
 
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Um, ok....

Its 25 pages, published, peer reviewed etc etc

"The transmission of airborne infectious diseases, including influenza1, tuberculosis2 , and severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)3, has been observed in commercial airliners."
Now we're talking, I'll start reading that when I get a bit of time.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 11:30
  #543 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
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I am not afraid of the virus, but what I'm very afraid of is the government's response to the virus.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 11:38
  #544 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turnleft080 View Post
I am not afraid of the virus, but what I'm very afraid of is the government's response to the virus.
Isnít that the 11th American Amendment?
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 11:47
  #545 (permalink)  
 
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I'm struggling to understand where you're coming from bodie. I can tell Ya and everyone of my colleagues would agree with me, For 30 years flying around in the tube it was a given you would get the flu or a cold at least once per year, mostly during the flu season, we all took codral and sudafed and soldiered on. It was only in recent years when crew would call in sick in big numbers that the company took the issue seriously and stumped up for the flu jab, The nurse came to us and setup in the office, we only had to roll up our sleeve when signing off. Since CV-19 is 4 times more infectious than the flu, the notion that being infected in an aircraft is low risk is just laughable. It's one of the occupational hazards I don't miss.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 12:42
  #546 (permalink)  
 
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I'm struggling to understand where you're coming from bodie.
Where I'm coming from X is, this virus will not be eliminated. It doesn't matter whether you're in an aluminium tube or a paddock out the back of bum ****. There also won't be a vaccine, any government waiting for this magic vaccine prior to opening up is a moronic government. What characterises the response to this virus is fear, death, destruction, chaos, clamity and any other simile you want to use. Social media has finally hit paydirt, this is exactly what they and government wanted, fearmongering trumps intelligence, crisis sees incumbent government popularity rise, except of course when you're a union controlled government.

I don't doubt the seriousness of this virus or the damage it can do. I know there is a lot of the unknown with this thing. Epidemiologists cannot agree on virus suppression methods. What i'm saying is there is no recent evidence that points to any thing that does or doesn't work. So how about cooling the jets, using a bit of common ******* sense. How about washing your hands, not touching your face and wearing a mask. How about protecting the most vulnerable amongst us. We're doing it with the older folk in our family. Mate, I'll take employment over waiting it out indefinitely on government assistance, it's going to have to happen at some point, you cannot put these restrictions on a democratic, capitalist society indefinitely.

Have you wondered how state governments have ended up with so much power? Have you wondered how little power the federal government has? This joint is a mess.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 13:06
  #547 (permalink)  
 
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"What i'm saying is there is no recent evidence that points to any thing that does or doesn't work."

Were you around for SARS, the other coronavirus that came from bats?

I'll save you some time.

"Where has SARS gone? The short answer is that public health measures were effective. Although SARS caused a reported 774 deaths worldwide between November 2002 and July 2003, case detection, isolation, quarantine, along with contact tracing, broke the chain of transmission."

Where Has SARS Gone? The Strange Case of the Disappearing Coronavirus | Somatosphere

More to the point, not one of the nations that dealt with it has suggested "herd immunity" as the way forward.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 13:12
  #548 (permalink)  
 
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Ahhh right, yep, I remember SARS, I remember Australia shutting down then too. I remember having to isolate for two weeks in Sydney when I returned around that time.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 13:22
  #549 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bodie1 View Post
Ahhh right, yep, I remember SARS, I remember Australia shutting down then too. I remember having to isolate for two weeks in Sydney when I returned around that time.
Perhaps the 570 thousand odd more deaths (so far) this time got more peoples attention...
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 13:47
  #550 (permalink)  
 
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Some things I agree with you there bodie, others I don't, we are all entitled to an opinion, as for the powers of the states, that's always been the case, the states were here first, the federal government is only responsible for national matters. One of the greatest things the states regret was giving the federal government the power to collect taxes on behalf of the states. Western Australia is still whinging about that still today.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 14:07
  #551 (permalink)  
 
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SARS-CoV-1 and SARS-CoV-2, although both similar in origin, have behaved quite differently. The original SARS had a higher mortality rate but was less contagious. It was always going to be an easier task to get it under control. Another factor is the transmission with SARS-CoV-1 was more transmissible when the host was showing the worst of the symptoms. This also made containment an easier task. Our new enemy is a complete prick with transmission occurring at almost any stage of the infection cycle. I am also afraid to agree that we are really not going to be able to completely eradicate this beast and are going to need awareness to deal with it and minimise.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 14:12
  #552 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps the 570 thousand odd more deaths (so far) this time got more peoples attention..
So the similarities start where? SARS would have been the same as covid but............what? The Asian nations contained it before it reached the rest of the world? No, cases actually made it past Hong Kong. But we locked down and eliminated it world wide before it could take hold? Nice try.

X, Never said anybody wasn't entitled to their opinion. Either the state governments have to go, or the feds. The situation as it stands is ridiculous.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 14:21
  #553 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by currawong View Post
Perhaps the 570 thousand odd more deaths (so far) this time got more peoples attention...
I would like to know how they died. We know a large majority are over 70 years plus. How many healthy against underlining/morbid conditions.
We have no post-mortem data. Now 6 months in. Does every death certificate state (cause of death covid-19.) If you get run over by a bus with covid, your a covid stat.
I'II take a guess then. Say 50,000 healthy and say 520,000 underlining. Those 520 may have been on the edge of
diabetes, heart decease, cancer, emphysema, COPD, etc That's what would of killed them if it wasn't for covid.
Why is this info suppressed? Who is suppressing it? Their could be the answer right there. The WHO. Have they given a directive to all hospitals.
We don't know. Even Australia's 108. What are the circumstances? All we know elderly person.

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Old 14th Jul 2020, 14:23
  #554 (permalink)  
 
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Abolish the states eh! probably not in my lifetime. Australia would have to become a republic first.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 15:39
  #555 (permalink)  
 
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The AFR this week has calculated the reduction in international transport has saved Australia 20 billion so far. Why on earth would The Australian government even think of supporting it? Quite the opposite. They should tax it heavily (and I say this as someone whoís livelihood depends on international transport).

Never in world history has any creature travelled the world in such numbers so frequently. The Spanish Flu mk1 following WW1 was the first mass immigration that coincided with a heavily contagious deadly pandemic.
The Australian government in 1918 could justify returning servicemen as a reason to risk their citizens health. After all sacrifice should be rewarded with sacrifice.

I understand Iím preaching to the atheists on this site, but the fight against pandemics will go on forever. They wonít be defeated, theyíll only be mitigated, such as reverting to a more localised lifestyle.

As the AFR points out, as Australians we actually financially benefit by staying at home. For those that want to travel to the detriment of the greater good, tax them a health and finance levy. But certainly donít subsidize their selfishness.

As an added bonus, since international airline flying virtually ceased the number of illegal immigrants entering the country is at an all time low. So the far right should be especially content. Money stays onshore and the unwanted stay offshore.

As for those that are frustrated by the States having greater control than the federal government, thatís the way it was designed.

Last edited by Progress Wanchai; 14th Jul 2020 at 17:48.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 21:23
  #556 (permalink)  
 
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Progress Wanchai is right about the economic aspects, sadly.

As for Bodie, the lethality of the virus has very little to do with the danger inherent in this pandemic. What is lethal is it’s dynamics and that is why lockdowns are necessary. Rumor has it that Victoria goes full Hitler tomorrow.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 21:33
  #557 (permalink)  
 
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100% agree with you Bodie. Largely media (traditional and social) driven fear has taken over and lapped common sense.

Maybe thereís hope though? It seems thereís finally a political leader talking some sense about managing our way through this.


"We can't shut down every time we have a cluster of cases," Ms Berejiklian told A Current Affair."We can't keep shutting down and reopening, that is not a good way for us to manage the pandemic."

"We need to accept children need to be educated, that people need to go to work," she said.

"It would be unrealistic for us to assume we are going to see any situation where there's zero cases.

"This is the nature of a pandemic Ė until we have a cure, we have to live with it."
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 22:23
  #558 (permalink)  
 
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It seems we have a difference of opinion as to what common sense is and there are a few that continue to thrash that point.

" We can't keep shutting down every time there's an outbreak" well yes we can.
" people need to go to work" not if you're sick and you have no business if your're dead.
"children need to be educated" yes but not if they're sick and not at the expense of the teachers life.
"it would be unrealistic to assume we are going to see zero cases" correct statement
"until we have a cure we have to live with it" correct statement but with a great deal of care and foresight.
"fear mongering" I don't know anyone, with the exception of front line medical personnel who are afraid, until they're sick.

We can't trust people to do the right thing whether compelled or by choice. We have serious vulnerabilities in our critical essential services, should any one of them fail, everything stops anyway. Power and Water supply is particularly vulnerable.
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Old 15th Jul 2020, 02:14
  #559 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Xeptu
" We can't keep shutting down every time there's an outbreak" well yes we can.
" people need to go to work" not if you're sick and you have no business if your're dead.
"children need to be educated" yes but not if they're sick and not at the expense of the teachers life.
1. No you can't. Many industries have lengthy and convoluted supply chains. As for the damage done to service and hospitality with shutdowns!
2. People of working age are generally only mildly affected by this virus. No work equals no taxation equals no healthcare; unless the governments print money but that only leads to inflation.
3. Kids don't just need an education. They need social interaction... Can't get that locked down in Dan's Utopia! Teachers at risk should be permitted to skip school but I would think the very vast majority would survive the virus.

Life has to go on! By all means shield the at-risk but playing the eradication game right now is causing far more harm than good... IMHO...
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Old 15th Jul 2020, 04:58
  #560 (permalink)  
 
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"YES WE CAN" and I'll be arrogant enough to say yes we will. The rest of Australia worked hard to stop the spread and achieve zero active cases and we want to keep it that way. Our borders will remain closed to those under performing states.
I feel your pain and disappointment of the greater majority within those states for the actions and disregard of the handful of reckless people that have brought VIC and NSW to this end.
That does not qualify as it's impossible to contain the virus.
I don't want to hear that working age people are only mildly effected, that has long since been debunked and we don't care anyway, when your infected, quarantine
There is no such thing as herd immunity as it applies to CV-19, if we are infected the economy is effected also.
We have zero tolerance to any person who knowingly and recklessly attempts to run through our border controls or endangers the lives of our front line workers.
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