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AFR - Virgin Administrators come under fire for doubtful forecasts

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AFR - Virgin Administrators come under fire for doubtful forecasts

Old 16th May 2020, 01:06
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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For SHVC.

From the Guardian:

To do this, Strawbridge and the other administrators have also had to convince the federal court judge John Middleton to make extraordinary orders on Friday that allow them to avoid personal liability for the vast bulk of debts the airline continues to incur on their watch.

They’ve also taken legal action in the US to protect the airline’s assets from creditors there.


https://www.theguardian.com/business...es-for-a-buyer



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Old 16th May 2020, 01:52
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SHVC View Post
If it’s still in administration come September and aircraft are flying wouldn’t Deloitte be responsible for any loss making flights? If so, would it be reasonable to assume they know more then they’re letting on.
The longer it drags on the more risk Deloitte needs to take on in the form of more loans to keep the joint running.

They already have $200m taken out. They will want $300m back for that gesture.
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Old 16th May 2020, 02:05
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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So with that, would it appear they’re not confident in the business themselves? That’s why they want a fast transaction
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Old 16th May 2020, 02:22
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SHVC View Post
So with that, would it appear they’re not confident in the business themselves? That’s why they want a fast transaction

SHVC, it appears their 'intention' is for a quick sale but at the same time, they have managed to extend the convening period through the Federal Court until 18 Aug. Im pretty sure there is lots of work going on 'behind the scenes' for numerous reasons.Extension of Convening Period
  1. An order pursuant to section 439A(6) of the Corporations Act that the convening period defined in section 439A(5)(b) of the Corporations Act in respect of each of the Second to Thirty-Ninth Plaintiffs and, should paragraph 2 of this Interlocutory Process be made, the Fortieth Plaintiff (together, the Virgin Companies and each, a Virgin Company), be extended until 18 August 2020.
  2. An order, pursuant to section 447A(1) of the Corporations Act, that Part 5.3A of the Corporations Act is to operate in relation to each of the Virgin Companies such that, notwithstanding section 439A(2) of the Corporations Act, the second meeting of the creditors of each of the Virgin Companies required under section 439A of the Corporations Act may be convened at any time before, or within, five (5) business days after, the end of the convening period as extended by paragraph 11 above (provided that the First Plaintiffs give notice of the meetings to eligible creditors of each of the Virgin Companies (including the persons claiming to be creditors of the Virgin Companies) at least five (5) business days before the meeting).
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Old 18th May 2020, 00:05
  #45 (permalink)  
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One of the bidders has made the point that Virgin's liquidity position remained a going concern, with the central question being whether the airline could make it to the second creditors' meeting in August and still be solvent. So, the question is why would anyone bid for the company now, when it would be much cheaper to wait for receivership which would remove all liabilities to creditors and allow a clean slate to start again?
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Old 18th May 2020, 01:01
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Originally Posted by Con Catenator View Post
One of the bidders has made the point that Virgin's liquidity position remained a going concern, with the central question being whether the airline could make it to the second creditors' meeting in August and still be solvent. So, the question is why would anyone bid for the company now, when it would be much cheaper to wait for receivership which would remove all liabilities to creditors and allow a clean slate to start again?
correct me if I'm wrong, but can't admin get rid of a lot, maybe not all creditors ?
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Old 18th May 2020, 01:10
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Only if the creditors agree.
Despite how this is presented, it is the creditors NOT the administrators that are in the driving seat.

PS. The unsecured creditors are screwed.
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Old 18th May 2020, 01:16
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
Only if the creditors agree.
Despite how this is presented, it is the creditors NOT the administrators that are in the driving seat.

PS. The unsecured creditors are screwed.
Nothing stopping some of those secured creditors just appointing their own receivers to go after their security.

Company I was at that eventually got liquidated went Receivers appointed -> Administration --> Refinance and receivers retired --> Still under administration --> New financier receivers appointed ---> liquidation
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Old 18th May 2020, 01:35
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-...ralia/12258458

No surprises here.
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Old 18th May 2020, 02:12
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Where is the QLD government in all this, they're quiet now, are they one of the 4 or are they teaming up and with whom would it be. After that diabolical interview Mr Dick done with Karl Stefanovic last week I hope they have nothing to do with VA 2.0.
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Old 18th May 2020, 03:48
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Where is the QLD government in all this, they're quiet now,
Probably trying to figure out how VA 2.0 will work with closed borders.
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Old 18th May 2020, 06:16
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder when statements are made like 'Refund' not 'Full Refund'?
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Old 18th May 2020, 06:26
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The latest news from Sand Pit is disturbing. Rumours of Etihad folding and Emirates downsizing with the majority of the A380's being mothballed and staff being reduced by 30,000. This will make the administrators role to get as much as they can out of Virgin to satisfy the creditors difficult. The administrator is saying there will be no Virgin retrenchments is hilarious and Virgin flight credits honored post administration even more hilarious.
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Old 18th May 2020, 06:37
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Makes sense Etihad, Emirates and Qatar will be in for some very tough times how long they can sustain the down turn is anyone’s guess. Even easy jet, Ryan air and BA that primarily do EU.

QF, JQ and VA have the advantage of a domestic network as Australia is a large country as long as the premiers come to the party. Anastasia was on the news earlier she said QLD is closed and boarders will remain closed until September as they want two incubation cycles without a covid case.
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Old 18th May 2020, 09:18
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as they want two incubation cycles without a covid case.
Yeah, well good luck with that. That’s 28 days. I said it on another post, the states now seem to be pursuing a unilateral elimination strategy.

That was never supposed to be the game plan. If it is now, they need to come clean with the public as it’s extremely unlikely with the easing of restrictions that we will ever achieve that. This thing is here to stay. We need to find a way to manage it.

The point of the suppression strategy was to buy time
to enhance the health system’s capacity to manage an increase in COVID cases, not for it to morph in to an elimination strategy.
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Old 18th May 2020, 10:34
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Originally Posted by B772 View Post
The administrator is saying there will be no Virgin retrenchments is hilarious and Virgin flight credits honored post administration even more hilarious.
No, they're saying the are not planning any redundancies while they are in charge, and why would they? Over 8000 of the 9250ish employees are currently stood down being paid by the government and the remaining staff still working are having their wages subsidised by the government. By the time JobKeeper finishes and however many remaining stood down staff are actually looking at redundancy, Deloitte hopes to have sailed off into the sunset with their hundreds of millions.

The direction of the media is now that Deloitte are trying to retain as many jobs as possible in VA mk 2, that would mean they do see a requirement for redundancies yes?

Originally Posted by Ragnor View Post
Anastasia was on the news earlier she said QLD is closed and boarders will remain closed until September as they want two incubation cycles without a covid case.
She also said they're open to looking at a travel bubble with NT, ACT, SA and WA. Her "concern" with NSW and Vic is they are still having community transmission cases showing up where the other states appear to have that under control. These aren't big markets, but it is a start. I bet there's a heap of people in those states that will travel to QLD or between states if that's the only places they're allowed to go!
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Old 18th May 2020, 11:16
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You live in Melbourne....that's very unfortunate, but anyway, say you live in Melbourne...you fly to ADL, thence on to BNE or OOL??

And this is different from going direct Melb to OOL / BNE?
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Old 18th May 2020, 13:13
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Con Catenator View Post
One of the bidders has made the point that Virgin's liquidity position remained a going concern, with the central question being whether the airline could make it to the second creditors' meeting in August and still be solvent. So, the question is why would anyone bid for the company now, when it would be much cheaper to wait for receivership which would remove all liabilities to creditors and allow a clean slate to start again?

The Fin Review today!

​​​​​​https://www.afr.com/companies/transp...0200518-p54tvt
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Old 20th May 2020, 05:31
  #59 (permalink)  
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I would imagine after hearing some of the news broadcasts today about WA & QLD borders staying closed far longer than anticipated
it's becoming hard to see a VA 2.0. (Hope I'm wrong though) WA premier even stating indefinite closure.
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Old 20th May 2020, 05:41
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Problem with waiting for receivership is that you lose the AOC and all the instruments. 5+ years to get all that back. Meanwhile REX is up and running as well. Best bet is to get in now and at least keep everything in order.
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