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AFR - Virgin Administrators come under fire for doubtful forecasts

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AFR - Virgin Administrators come under fire for doubtful forecasts

Old 14th May 2020, 22:23
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rashid Bacon View Post
https://www.fedcourt.gov.au/__data/a...on-1252020.pdf

Can anyone who understands legal documents explain in laymans language what this really means ??
Not sure, looks like they’re trying to protect the self from that class action that been taken against travel industry where people who purchase holidays and paid for airfares are entitled to cash refunds. A lot in that document tho.
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Old 15th May 2020, 00:25
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MickG0105 View Post
Frankly I'm surprised that that story isn't generating more widespread interest/concern, particularly the
bit.

If I were one of the thousands of Virgin customers, sorry, guests, holding a travel credit I'd be extraordinarily pi55ed off. I've been done out of a refund at a federal court hearing that I had no representation at such that I'm now effectively being treated as an unsecured creditor but with no representation on the Committee of Inspection.

As to the 'travel credits will be valid for the administration period', how much flying and on what routes is likely to occur during 'the administration period'? The Administrator is effectively rissoling the customers here and it's all gone under the radar.

And it's made all the more galling knowing that PS is still trousering twenty large a week ... to do what exactly?
A challenge for Virgin will be any of the customers who have been stiffed by their collapse. VA risks having customers move over to Qantas as Qantas will still be seen as ‘reliable and safe’. Virgin on the other hand has a dark cloud hanging over its head. The new entity can redeem itself over time, but there will be an element of customer uncertainty for some time also. If they look after all those who have been inconvenienced they may win their loyal customers back. It is passengers that generate the big bucks so you don’t want them offside.

As for Scurrah, well he was the Captain of the ship for over a year. Captains should go down with their ships. Once things are all done and dusted and a new owner(s) is/are found there should be no need to keep ‘Mr $20k per week’ on the books. Out with pretty much anyone managerial prior to the collapse. CEO, COO, GM’s and the Board, all gone.




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Old 15th May 2020, 01:27
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Devil

Originally Posted by Paragraph377 View Post
A challenge for Virgin will be any of the customers who have been stiffed by their collapse. VA risks having customers move over to Qantas as Qantas will still be seen as ‘reliable and safe’. Virgin on the other hand has a dark cloud hanging over its head. The new entity can redeem itself over time, but there will be an element of customer uncertainty for some time also. If they look after all those who have been inconvenienced they may win their loyal customers back. It is passengers that generate the big bucks so you don’t want them offside.

As for Scurrah, well he was the Captain of the ship for over a year. Captains should go down with their ships. Once things are all done and dusted and a new owner(s) is/are found there should be no need to keep ‘Mr $20k per week’ on the books. Out with pretty much anyone managerial prior to the collapse. CEO, COO, GM’s and the Board, all gone.
Oh, I know. Jane Hrdlicka would be perfect instead!
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Old 15th May 2020, 01:48
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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looks like Deloitte are trying to get out of their obligations, i thought they are responsible for all running cost whilst they had the reins.

Virgin sale: Administrators don’t want JobKeeper bill

The Australian Taxation Office is in discussions with the administrators of Virgin Australia to determine to what extent they should be liable for any overpayments made to the airline’s employees under the federal government’s JobKeeper scheme.

In the Federal Court on Friday morning, the ATO asked for more time to discuss the issue with Virgin’s administrator Deloitte.

It also said it wanted to consider whether there should be any restrictions placed on the waiver of personal liabilities granted by the court to Deloitte for Virgin’s incurred debts during the administration process.

The court will now reconvene next Wednesday to debate or finalise these issues.

The administrators have asked the court to consider that their personal liability be limited where the airline needs to enter into new contracts required to maintain operations during the administration process.

Specifically they want to avoid personal liability for payments under the federal government’s coronavirus wage relief subsidy, JobKeeper
More than 8,200 of Virgin Australia’s 10,000 employees have claimed a total of $24.8m in JobKeeper payments.

On Wednesday the commonwealth Attorney-General also sought to intervene in the proceedings in relation to JobKeeper payments to Virgin staff and the federal government’s Fair Entitlements Guarantee (FEG) scheme, which pays workers’ entitlements if their bankrupt employer cannot.

The administrators have estimated that the value of employee entitlements that would crystallise on the liquidation of the group is approximately $450m.
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Old 15th May 2020, 01:51
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Denied Justice View Post
I really hope you don't mean he's earning $ 20,000 per week ???
That is exactly what I mean. He is currently being paid somewhere between $21,500 and $25,000 a week. What his To Do list and calendar look like given current circumstances is anyone's guess.
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Old 15th May 2020, 03:06
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Things maybe more than they seem for Velocity?

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/v...-points-2020-5
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Old 15th May 2020, 03:16
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Now comes the OFFLOAD of Velocity Points!
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Old 15th May 2020, 03:21
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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I have been told some of the initial buying interest in Virgin has waned. This being the case only about 12 parties are expected to lodge a non binding bid by the deadline of 6 pm today. This number will further dwindle with the passage of time due to the heavy baggage in the group. It could end up with no final bids acceptable to the administrator. In this event the administrator will be looking at liquidation.
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Old 15th May 2020, 05:27
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by B772 View Post
I have been told some of the initial buying interest in Virgin has waned. This being the case only about 12 parties are expected to lodge a non binding bid by the deadline of 6 pm today. This number will further dwindle with the passage of time due to the heavy baggage in the group. It could end up with no final bids acceptable to the administrator. In this event the administrator will be looking at liquidation.
Out of curiosity what would be a minimum bid by your guess or anyone else? Cameron Dick seems to think it’s as easy as going into administration the debt is gone and off ya go. This was what he said this morning on an interview with Karl Stefanovic
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Old 15th May 2020, 06:22
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone know how it works? Is the debt just written off and you’re left with aircraft leases and terminal leases etc? Seems the new QLD Treasurer reckons that V2 would almost start with a clean slate? Seems somewhat improbable!
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Old 15th May 2020, 06:24
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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It depends what all the secured creditors agree on!
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Old 15th May 2020, 06:26
  #32 (permalink)  
rmm
 
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I have been told some of the initial buying interest in Virgin has waned.
Seems to be so. The article linked below claims 8 and possibly down to 3 serious bidders by Monday.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/bus...15-p54tex.html
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Old 15th May 2020, 08:41
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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So it went from 19 interested "parties" to 8, to 3. I wonder if they were scared off from all the negative press and statements made by various parties, or they never really existed (that is they were only ever tyre kickers and wannabes)?

The figure of 19 was stated somewhere, I am sure................

Its in here, second paragraph:

https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...13-p54snq.html
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Old 15th May 2020, 08:54
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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I would think the 3 (which was always no more than that to begin with) would be genuine. Real question is, are they going to cough up the required figure that Deloitte need to make it work.
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Old 15th May 2020, 09:01
  #35 (permalink)  
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https://www.businessinsider.com.au/v...-points-2020-5

That's a very optimistic view of where this is headed - I would question the source of all this new found evidence of a re-start ???
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Old 15th May 2020, 09:44
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Virgin was a dead duck the second it went to Administration. It was insolvent and the managers waited too long to make the decision. Wind it up now and get the employees their entitlements at least. Another few weeks of jerking about with “investors” and their will be nothing left to divide up.
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Old 15th May 2020, 10:39
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Now that the initial offers of interest has closed expect to hear rumours from parties that have walked away. One rumour from a party given access to the data room was that Virgin airfares would need to increase by 40% for the airline to be financially viable. The party lost interest upon reaching this conclusion after accepting the fact the new airline would be attacked by both Jetstar and Qantas.
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Old 15th May 2020, 10:51
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Con Catenator View Post
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/v...-points-2020-5

That's a very optimistic view of where this is headed - I would question the source of all this new found evidence of a re-start ???
Interesting that Velocity has re-opened domestic seat bookings but that 'other redemption opportunities aren't available for the time being'. So, Velocity is happily writing only the cheques that they don't have to cash.

Bear in mind that Velocity is not only a separate entity but it is also a creditor. You've got to wonder if this is some sort of inter-company square-up of the rumoured to be $200 million debt owed to Velocity by Virgin.

Last edited by MickG0105; 15th May 2020 at 12:47. Reason: Clarification
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Old 15th May 2020, 12:03
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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I don’t understand how they can re-open bookings when the status of the company is so unresolved.

This has to be positioning for the day of reckoning when the final outcome will be determined as to who gets what.

This is a very complex set of circumstances.

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Old 15th May 2020, 20:39
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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If it’s still in administration come September and aircraft are flying wouldn’t Deloitte be responsible for any loss making flights? If so, would it be reasonable to assume they know more then they’re letting on.
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