Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Qantas Group Pilots Giving Up Entitlements

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Qantas Group Pilots Giving Up Entitlements

Old 9th May 2020, 06:10
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 40
Qantas Group Pilots Giving Up Entitlements

Hearing rumours that pilots are being encouraged (by their company and more senior crew) to give up meal and other types of EA allowances to ensure the company they work for are given preferential treatment when QF hands out flying work.

ie: QF will give this Charter flight to Network because Cobham and Mainline crew are claiming an extra X% of allowances per month.

Is this exactly why QF has multiple entities doing effectively the same thing (piloting aircraft) because they know theyíll fight for work and save QF money? Are the crew that are giving up entitlements scabbing?
aussieflyboy is offline  
Old 9th May 2020, 06:25
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Outer Marker hut
Posts: 202
Doesnít matter what you call it, pilots will never be united and this crisis will be milked for all
itís worth. The only enemy here is the corporate culture employed by QF, not other pilots.
bazza stub is online now  
Old 9th May 2020, 07:29
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 943
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but probably 30% of us won’t fly for the Qantas Group again in the next 5 years and those that are left will be flying on terms and conditions a lot lower than those we currently enjoy. Qantas will be giving the work that is best suited to the aircraft type and of course that makes them the most money, I was on a dial in the other day and a Jetstar 787 pilot said why not give the domestic work to them as they are cheaper than Qantas crew, answer was, we don’t have 787 logistics set up at domestic terminals such as the loading and boarding system, so although on the face it might be cheaper it would require an outlay that Qantas is not going to spend. I don’t think meal payments are going to be the difference.
Ollie Onion is offline  
Old 9th May 2020, 08:06
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 116
Iím calling bullshit.
cloudsurfng is online now  
Old 9th May 2020, 08:10
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 247
Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but probably 30% of us wonít fly for the Qantas Group again in the next 5 years and those that are left will be flying on terms and conditions a lot lower than those we currently enjoy. Qantas will be giving the work that is best suited to the aircraft type and of course that makes them the most money, I was on a dial in the other day and a Jetstar 787 pilot said why not give the domestic work to them as they are cheaper than Qantas crew, answer was, we donít have 787 logistics set up at domestic terminals such as the loading and boarding system, so although on the face it might be cheaper it would require an outlay that Qantas is not going to spend. I donít think meal payments are going to be the difference.
I think the percentage of QF group pilots that are still flying after COVID 19 depends on the amount that Virgin contracts.

I dont blame the 787 boys for trying to think outside the square to get themselves flying given that international is probably at least 12-18 months away. I think their best chance would be SYD-AKL-MEL services like they did a few years ago, but I think even that is grasping at straws. It doesnít make much sense to reactive a fleet for such little flying.
ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE is online now  
Old 9th May 2020, 08:15
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: SE QLD
Posts: 134
Dunno Ollie - lots of doom being peddled - Iím more optimistic than most, I reckon it will turn out better, sooner, than that.

This started for most of the western world properly in March. We are in May - even the worst hit parts of the world are starting to get better - not worse, irrespective of their lockdown methods.
Of course government isnít committing to international travel anytime soon - theyíve got enough nut jobs they have to appease just to get kids back to school, let alone anything else.

Things will change as confidence grows, and it will grow.

Cheap leisure travel in the loco market might take a while, but even that will come back well. Aussies are voracious travellers.

Youíre a pilot - makes sense to plan for the worst. That way Everything else will feel easy.

Chins up everyone. Life goes on.
ScepticalOptomist is offline  
Old 9th May 2020, 08:19
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Denmark
Posts: 140
Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but probably 30% of us wonít fly for the Qantas Group again in the next 5 years and those that are left will be flying on terms and conditions a lot lower than those we currently enjoy. Qantas will be giving the work that is best suited to the aircraft type and of course that makes them the most money, I was on a dial in the other day and a Jetstar 787 pilot said why not give the domestic work to them as they are cheaper than Qantas crew, answer was, we donít have 787 logistics set up at domestic terminals such as the loading and boarding system, so although on the face it might be cheaper it would require an outlay that Qantas is not going to spend. I donít think meal payments are going to be the difference.
If youíre international crew yeah maybe, JQ Domestic will pic up long before that due to cost.
As for your JQ 787 pilot asking that, Iíve been on every dial in since this China Virus 🦠 hit and I donít remember this. Only rhetoric question I hear is why they canít turn them into freighters. Though, GE has given every assurance that JQ want the 78 in the network just be awhile before they have useful work for them.
Ragnor is offline  
Old 9th May 2020, 08:57
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 943
Jetstar Dial In, don’t get me wrong, I don’t blame him for asking. Just saying there will be many pilot groups making ‘offers’ of concessions to try and get flying as per the original post. I just don’t think it will make any difference I.e. meal payments won’t be the difference between one group or the other flying. I don’t think the original poster should get upset at this happening. I hope that we all get back to work soon, if we look all over the world though lots of management teams are using this crisis to also strip some terms and conditions and we should be prepared for that.
Ollie Onion is offline  
Old 9th May 2020, 09:28
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 40
I think the concern is once you give something up itís unlikely you will get it back.

So in 2, 3, 4 years time when everything is back to the new normal, the terms and conditions generations of crews before you fought for may not be there.
aussieflyboy is offline  
Old 9th May 2020, 09:56
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: On the 15th floor
Age: 50
Posts: 364
Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
I was on a dial in the other day and a Jetstar 787 pilot said why not give the domestic work to them as they are cheaper than Qantas crew,
Classy! Thanks very much....
kellykelpie is online now  
Old 9th May 2020, 10:47
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: HKG
Posts: 67
I heard a rumour that the level of sh*te being posted on PPRuNe is at an all time high. This just ainít news worthy in the grand scheme of things...

Letís re-assess when we work out how Australia is going to fare at a national level before we think about meal allowances.
Green.Dot is offline  
Old 9th May 2020, 10:59
  #12 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by Green.Dot View Post
Letís re-assess when we work out how Australia is going to fare at a national level before we think about meal allowances.
By then the half sandwich (which used to be the standard for an economy pax meal) and a half rotten banana will be the norm on a 9 hour duty. Maybe you folks could suggest getting rid of overtime/min hours guarantee as well? And who needs a 4 star hotel? Backpackers will do (some may actually prefer that one)
aussieflyboy is offline  
Old 9th May 2020, 11:03
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: HKG
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by aussieflyboy View Post
By then the half sandwich (which used to be the standard for an economy pax meal) and a half rotten banana will be the norm on a 9 hour duty. Maybe you folks could suggest getting rid of overtime/min hours guarantee as well? And who needs a 4 star hotel? Backpackers will do (some may actually prefer that one)
You missed my point. 80% of the workforce hasnít even touched an aeroplane for a couple months. Iíll jump up and down when I see a flight deck if there is no food.

Like somebody else said I call bullsh*t
Green.Dot is offline  
Old 9th May 2020, 11:25
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,122
So what happens to the stood down 747 crews once Jobkeeper expires in September?
KRUSTY 34 is offline  
Old 9th May 2020, 12:22
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Denmark
Posts: 140
Originally Posted by KRUSTY 34 View Post
So what happens to the stood down 747 crews once Jobkeeper expires in September?
Ummmm they stay stood down like the rest of us if there is no useful employment.
Ragnor is offline  
Old 9th May 2020, 12:54
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Sydney
Posts: 146
I know USA isn't Australia but the feeling there is "full pay and benefits" until the last day. They learnt from 9/11 and 2008 that what you give up now, you will never get back. Ever.
Climb150 is offline  
Old 9th May 2020, 13:33
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Mostly here, sometimes over there...
Posts: 220
Ah, the brotherhood of pilots. The quintessence of Aussie mateship.
Well, for y'all not around for '89, '02 and even '08....here we go again.
Make no mistake, if times are hard enough, we will sell our grandmothers and root a dog on a chain.
That being said though, management will always do what management wants to do. There is no free will.
Your 'meal allowance' waver scenario is a simple show of weakness and scaremongering.
I call 'bullshit' on the OP
Buttscratcher is offline  
Old 9th May 2020, 16:51
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: International
Age: 72
Posts: 1,327
I would expect Ellen to wait and see what happens with Virgin before he looks at pilot and cabin crew numbers. There is no guarantee Virgin will be operating in September. They could end up being liquidated due to stuff ups by the administrator. If Virgin were to be liquidated it would take some time for a replacement carrier to get in the air.
B772 is offline  
Old 9th May 2020, 22:52
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,122
Originally Posted by Ragnor View Post
Ummmm they stay stood down like the rest of us if there is no useful employment.
Yup, I get that. But the ďrest of usĒ will probably have a ďtypeĒ to go back to!
KRUSTY 34 is offline  
Old 9th May 2020, 23:15
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Denmark
Posts: 140
QF haven’t made any announcement on the immediate future of the 74, so who knows come July could be using them flat out domestically. As restrictions ease over the coming weeks it should be an indication of how the public feel. If there is heaps at the shops spending etc things could be ok as their confidence increase if they’re home and being cautious well there will be a lot facing a future without aviation.
Ragnor is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.