Virgin headed for another disaster, says REX chairman
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sydney
Age: 43
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
George George you have to leave this 1980s mindset behind or perhaps you just like Billy Shorten
Employees have been working extra time than their scheduled shift etc , allocated period of work for the same "flat rate" rate of pay for decades
Just because it's not double time doesn't mean its not overtime , otherwise George you would have the poor working man doing 12 hours & telling him
that he ain't working OT. Does that sound fair George ?
Does anyone know any NB pilots with a better deal than QF SH ? Fritz from LH or Pierre from AF , might come close ?
Employees have been working extra time than their scheduled shift etc , allocated period of work for the same "flat rate" rate of pay for decades
Just because it's not double time doesn't mean its not overtime , otherwise George you would have the poor working man doing 12 hours & telling him
that he ain't working OT. Does that sound fair George ?
Does anyone know any NB pilots with a better deal than QF SH ? Fritz from LH or Pierre from AF , might come close ?
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne
Age: 68
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
George George you have to leave this 1980s mindset behind or perhaps you just like Billy Shorten
Employees have been working extra time than their scheduled shift etc , allocated period of work for the same "flat rate" rate of pay for decades
Just because it's not double time doesn't mean its not overtime , otherwise George you would have the poor working man doing 12 hours & telling him
that he ain't working OT. Does that sound fair George ?
Does anyone know any NB pilots with a better deal than QF SH ? Fritz from LH or Pierre from AF , might come close ?
Employees have been working extra time than their scheduled shift etc , allocated period of work for the same "flat rate" rate of pay for decades
Just because it's not double time doesn't mean its not overtime , otherwise George you would have the poor working man doing 12 hours & telling him
that he ain't working OT. Does that sound fair George ?
Does anyone know any NB pilots with a better deal than QF SH ? Fritz from LH or Pierre from AF , might come close ?
With the greatest of respect you have missed the point entirely.
It is not my fondness or otherwise for overtime rates that is the issue. Its the structure of the award itself.
Pilots were enticed back to work back in `89 by are bare-bones award with few benefits except a very high hourly rate.
Ever since then it has been an uphill battle to vary the award and the high hourly rate and low minimum guarantee are the weapons used by management ever since.
Any variation to the award has to be at the expense of one or both.
Management loves the simplicity of it and even more the fact that there is zero pressure on the producers of rosters to maximise their efficiency.
All the benefits go one way.
There is pretty well zero affection for the SH award precisely because of what it does for the life style/money balance.
Nothing to do with my affection for penalty rates.
Got it now?
Telfer, it may be for pilots that they have been working OT at a flat rate for decades, but let me assure you that every other industry that I know of nobody would work OT for a flat rate even if that was the award............which it isnt
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne
Age: 68
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spoken like you are a worker in Vic Rail heavy duty workshop in the mid 90s & Billy Shorten & Penny Wong has just walked out the door after a rousing lunch time sing along
(what's that labor babble they go on with ? , the commo crap )
Oh boy such sheltered & narrow experience , Arnold at least several hundred 1000 Australians work extra time for no double time , as no doubt some of
the Airline people are finding out right now , bet ya the places where they got preferential treatment don't pay 2times
I'm bored with this debate , let's talk about something interesting
How many QF pilots will be made redundant & which part of company will they come from ?
(what's that labor babble they go on with ? , the commo crap )
Oh boy such sheltered & narrow experience , Arnold at least several hundred 1000 Australians work extra time for no double time , as no doubt some of
the Airline people are finding out right now , bet ya the places where they got preferential treatment don't pay 2times
I'm bored with this debate , let's talk about something interesting
How many QF pilots will be made redundant & which part of company will they come from ?
10.5 rp/yr
$300k/yr capt NB average
$190k/yr FO NB average
Any other incorrect figures you want to spit out there Dopey??
Well the topic is Virgin & this is a pilot website
So I would think at an average of $300K for a NB Capt & around $190 K for an FO
I would have to say that I don't think they Virgin pilots were as put "being screwed'
We have to do something about this grammar of yours
So I would think at an average of $300K for a NB Capt & around $190 K for an FO
I would have to say that I don't think they Virgin pilots were as put "being screwed'
We have to do something about this grammar of yours
REX looking at taking over VA flying
so my 2 cents .....
QF & VA had way too many staff getting paid too much, BUT QF had larger share of corporate market, who pay top dollar.
You only had to look around at airports, with many well paid staff, standing around doing stuff all between flights.
New QF will have less staff probably being paid less or paid same but with more required (not saying necessarily pilots will work more hours).
New VA, if it gets up (can the administrators stuff it up ? Looks possible) will have a huge haircut in terms of staff & pay & conditions, otherwise a totally new airline will pick up either B737 or A320 aircraft leases for a song & pay nothing like QF/VA have in the past.
A new airline will only have to fly trunk routes more frequently than JQ & have cheaper fares than QF. Govts might have to subsidise non-trunk routes or JQ will fly them at higher fares, which will hurt tourism industry recovery in the regions.
Plenty of experienced ex VA & other airline staff, who would work for a lot less than they were getting, as have mortgages etc.
A new airline might start slowly, hiring only as needed, but in this new world, they could probably start with 6-8 aircraft or less, doing triangle only to offer a schedule better than JQ. Remember JQ will never fly frequently on the golden triangle or will be competing with QF.
What did Virgin Blue start with ? 2 x ex AN B734s wasn't it ? BNE/SYD only ?
Seem to be plenty of venture capitalists around with plenty of cash to fund it. Wouldn't be surprised if some of pay of any new airline was either shares or % of profit.
QF & VA had way too many staff getting paid too much, BUT QF had larger share of corporate market, who pay top dollar.
You only had to look around at airports, with many well paid staff, standing around doing stuff all between flights.
New QF will have less staff probably being paid less or paid same but with more required (not saying necessarily pilots will work more hours).
New VA, if it gets up (can the administrators stuff it up ? Looks possible) will have a huge haircut in terms of staff & pay & conditions, otherwise a totally new airline will pick up either B737 or A320 aircraft leases for a song & pay nothing like QF/VA have in the past.
A new airline will only have to fly trunk routes more frequently than JQ & have cheaper fares than QF. Govts might have to subsidise non-trunk routes or JQ will fly them at higher fares, which will hurt tourism industry recovery in the regions.
Plenty of experienced ex VA & other airline staff, who would work for a lot less than they were getting, as have mortgages etc.
A new airline might start slowly, hiring only as needed, but in this new world, they could probably start with 6-8 aircraft or less, doing triangle only to offer a schedule better than JQ. Remember JQ will never fly frequently on the golden triangle or will be competing with QF.
What did Virgin Blue start with ? 2 x ex AN B734s wasn't it ? BNE/SYD only ?
Seem to be plenty of venture capitalists around with plenty of cash to fund it. Wouldn't be surprised if some of pay of any new airline was either shares or % of profit.
Lower basic pay and higher hourly reduces an operators all important fixed costs. It also incentivises people to work on a day off, which reduces the number of employees required on the payroll as absences can be covered. Pilots can fly close to maximum hours if they want to by putting their hands up for extra work, better to have 100 pilots doing 900 hours a year than 110 doing 820 hours a year. It's similar to the tip system used in the USA where a waitress earns a very low basic wage but makes it up with an expected 15% premium on each customers bill.
In many instances flying pay can make up half of a pilots income which is fine when you're bouncing off the limits but not so good at the moment. However the current downturn is so severe and unprecedented that very few airlines will be able to sustain high fixed wages for much longer, and in the absence of a rapid recovery pay cuts may be needed in the short term to ensure that as many people are kept on a possible and the company survives.
In many instances flying pay can make up half of a pilots income which is fine when you're bouncing off the limits but not so good at the moment. However the current downturn is so severe and unprecedented that very few airlines will be able to sustain high fixed wages for much longer, and in the absence of a rapid recovery pay cuts may be needed in the short term to ensure that as many people are kept on a possible and the company survives.
VA pilots could have worked for free over the last 10years and the group would still delivered a loss.
journalists should be asking the taboo questions- where was Chairman Elizabeth and her board whilst this folly unfolded under their leadership.
journalists should be asking the taboo questions- where was Chairman Elizabeth and her board whilst this folly unfolded under their leadership.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gents, forget previous contract pay and conditions.
This is a new world. The Rex announcement today is the demise of VA and if you want a job, be prepared to have salaries that match the regional rates.
The VA Board, bless them, will probably move on to running the banks or the aged health system.
This is a new world. The Rex announcement today is the demise of VA and if you want a job, be prepared to have salaries that match the regional rates.
The VA Board, bless them, will probably move on to running the banks or the aged health system.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: deutschland
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
journalists should be asking the taboo questions- where was Chairman Elizabeth and her board whilst this folly unfolded under their leadership.
The first was the general commentary that Virgin had around $900 million in cash reserves.
The second is the reality that there was "only" $150 million available mid April which the board knew would only last weeks and not months.
So the journalists need to dig further to find out why there was such a difference in the "apparent" cash and why the reality was $ 150 million. Was the board complicit in hiding the true position to the ASX.
yes I know the data is likely way to low
as if you look at section 20 , page 16 you see the base for 2019 is $239k/155k respectively https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/doc...a/ae428327.pdf
As we know a base salary is not a gross salary or an average salary , it is the absolute minimum
Factor in extras that are included in this padded & cushy 117 document and you are clearly well north of the numbers above
Seems like extra $$$$ a plenty , what do you get for "I am flying with a sore p**** today?"
as if you look at section 20 , page 16 you see the base for 2019 is $239k/155k respectively https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/doc...a/ae428327.pdf
As we know a base salary is not a gross salary or an average salary , it is the absolute minimum
Factor in extras that are included in this padded & cushy 117 document and you are clearly well north of the numbers above
Seems like extra $$$$ a plenty , what do you get for "I am flying with a sore p**** today?"
no no no, dig up stupid
Why would any aspiring pilot want to become a airline pilot with the culture of Media and commentators like teller86 cutting you down the moment you earn as much as an average diesel fitter, and much less than a train driver.
Due to the cyclic nature of aviation unless you snagged a dream run of cradle to grave with a legacy airline as a cadet. You endured large periods of no work or low pay along your career path to LHS of 73. It’s not for everyone that’s why we had such an acute pilot shortage.
Due to the cyclic nature of aviation unless you snagged a dream run of cradle to grave with a legacy airline as a cadet. You endured large periods of no work or low pay along your career path to LHS of 73. It’s not for everyone that’s why we had such an acute pilot shortage.
es I know the data is likely way to low
as if you look at section 20 , page 16 you see the base for 2019 is $239k/155k respectively https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/doc...a/ae428327.pdf
As we know a base salary is not a gross salary or an average salary , it is the absolute minimum
Factor in extras that are included in this padded & cushy 117 document and you are clearly well north of the numbers above
Seems like extra $$$$ a plenty , what extra payments do you blokes get for "I am flying with a sore p**** today?"
as if you look at section 20 , page 16 you see the base for 2019 is $239k/155k respectively https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/doc...a/ae428327.pdf
As we know a base salary is not a gross salary or an average salary , it is the absolute minimum
Factor in extras that are included in this padded & cushy 117 document and you are clearly well north of the numbers above
Seems like extra $$$$ a plenty , what extra payments do you blokes get for "I am flying with a sore p**** today?"
Are you aware that your 300K number is almost mathematically impossible?? If you flew the legal limit every year you would never get anywhere near 300K. To get near it you would have to then work on days off which is a lottery. So to sprout 300 as an average it utterly ridiculous. Given the salary information is public how about doing some research before coming on here and preaching about salaries.
Last edited by non_state_actor; 12th May 2020 at 02:28.
Why would any aspiring pilot want to become a airline pilot with the culture of Media and commentators like teller86 cutting you down the moment you earn as much as an average diesel fitter, and much less than a train driver.