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Virgin headed for another disaster, says REX chairman

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Virgin headed for another disaster, says REX chairman

Old 11th May 2020, 02:31
  #101 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
.CZQ was not built for Ansett.
Sort of...it was an AWAS aircraft.
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Old 11th May 2020, 03:08
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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So true Buster. CZQ spent the first 10 years of its life with British Midland.
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Old 11th May 2020, 04:11
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Still think it is a strange number

Union boys must have wanted under 70

Would have thought at least 75 per month pre OT was the mins these days - well it was with JQ back in 2005 and it hasn't gone south since

QF of course the benchmark of SH low OT thresholds - with the great deal of 53.5 origins in 1989 - do you think it will last ?

All entitle to free opinion but you would think 69 times 10.5 is a pretty light on for a year

QF guy who stated OT normally paid at higher rate times 1.5 ; 2 ; 2.5 etc , well we all wish for the 1980's but OT at same rate has been common place in Australia for decades

Maybe more so outside the Union heartlands of Melb
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Old 11th May 2020, 04:27
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
Well it certainly was not crew wages that drove them into administration.

You don't think Boeing might have put their own spin on the cost analysis, you know, to make it look like a good idea to buy new aircraft that are maybe 5% more fuel-efficient than the old aircraft? Not saying they're wrong, but a lot of those figures are hugely variable, non-standardised costs.

Wages for example. Same in USA, Russia, South America, China? Fuel - same price in Dubai as Kalgoorlie? Leasing rates - same in 1989 as in 2019?
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Old 11th May 2020, 04:47
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Telfer86 View Post
Still think it is a strange number

Union boys must have wanted under 70

Would have thought at least 75 per month pre OT was the mins these days - well it was with JQ back in 2005 and it hasn't gone south since

QF of course the benchmark of SH low OT thresholds - with the great deal of 53.5 origins in 1989 - do you think it will last ?

All entitle to free opinion but you would think 69 times 10.5 is a pretty light on for a year

QF guy who stated OT normally paid at higher rate times 1.5 ; 2 ; 2.5 etc , well we all wish for the 1980's but OT at same rate has been common place in Australia for decades

Maybe more so outside the Union heartlands of Melb
We are all entitled to opinions if they are checked against the facts first - Itís 69 x 11.5 because VA work on 4 week rosters, not on calendar months. In a year there are 13RPs, and 6 weeks annual leave leaves 11.5 RPs, which equates to a yearly total of 793.5 hours - so no, I donít think that is light on for the year. Especially when you throw in another 50 odd hours of paxing that doesnít count towards those hours either.

And for what itís worth - the EA prior to this one was 71 hours...some more odd numbers for you to pontificate about.
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Old 11th May 2020, 04:52
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Telfer86 View Post
Still think it is a strange number

Union boys must have wanted under 70

Would have thought at least 75 per month pre OT was the mins these days - well it was with JQ back in 2005 and it hasn't gone south since

QF of course the benchmark of SH low OT thresholds - with the great deal of 53.5 origins in 1989 - do you think it will last ?

All entitle to free opinion but you would think 69 times 10.5 is a pretty light on for a year

QF guy who stated OT normally paid at higher rate times 1.5 ; 2 ; 2.5 etc , well we all wish for the 1980's but OT at same rate has been common place in Australia for decades

Maybe more so outside the Union heartlands of Melb

Don’t see the point in calling it OT if there is no increased rate or guaranteed minimum extra hours at that rate. Historically OT was introduced to prevent employers arbitrarily assigning extra work. The argument for such a low minimum guarantee in the SH Award has always been that the hourly rate is comparatively high. You can have a higher minimum guarantee and OT penalty rate but only if the hourly rate is lower. You cant have both. That’s why comparing JQ VA and QF Shorthaul is futile. Oranges and apples.
Personally I’ve always liked the idea of fleet pay , but thats never going to happen.
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Old 11th May 2020, 05:14
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Telfer86 View Post
All entitle to free opinion but you would think 69 times 10.5 is a pretty light on for a year
If 69 is a ďstrange numberĒ wtf would you call 10.5??

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Old 11th May 2020, 05:16
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Fleet pay could be a step closer by the time the borders open up
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Old 11th May 2020, 05:36
  #109 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by chookcooker View Post
If 69 is a ďstrange numberĒ wtf would you call 10.5??
Almost a Bakers dozen?
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Old 11th May 2020, 06:03
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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George George you have to leave this 1980s mindset behind or perhaps you just like Billy Shorten

Employees have been working extra time than their scheduled shift etc , allocated period of work for the same "flat rate" rate of pay for decades

Just because it's not double time doesn't mean its not overtime , otherwise George you would have the poor working man doing 12 hours & telling him
that he ain't working OT. Does that sound fair George ?

Does anyone know any NB pilots with a better deal than QF SH ? Fritz from LH or Pierre from AF , might come close ?

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Old 11th May 2020, 06:13
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Telfer, what is the point you are trying to make?
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Old 11th May 2020, 06:48
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Telfer86 View Post
George George you have to leave this 1980s mindset behind or perhaps you just like Billy Shorten

Employees have been working extra time than their scheduled shift etc , allocated period of work for the same "flat rate" rate of pay for decades

Just because it's not double time doesn't mean its not overtime , otherwise George you would have the poor working man doing 12 hours & telling him
that he ain't working OT. Does that sound fair George ?

Does anyone know any NB pilots with a better deal than QF SH ? Fritz from LH or Pierre from AF , might come close ?

With the greatest of respect you have missed the point entirely.
It is not my fondness or otherwise for overtime rates that is the issue. Its the structure of the award itself.
Pilots were enticed back to work back in `89 by are bare-bones award with few benefits except a very high hourly rate.
Ever since then it has been an uphill battle to vary the award and the high hourly rate and low minimum guarantee are the weapons used by management ever since.
Any variation to the award has to be at the expense of one or both.
Management loves the simplicity of it and even more the fact that there is zero pressure on the producers of rosters to maximise their efficiency.
All the benefits go one way.
There is pretty well zero affection for the SH award precisely because of what it does for the life style/money balance.
Nothing to do with my affection for penalty rates.
Got it now?
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Old 11th May 2020, 07:16
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Telfer, it may be for pilots that they have been working OT at a flat rate for decades, but let me assure you that every other industry that I know of nobody would work OT for a flat rate even if that was the award............which it isnt
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Old 11th May 2020, 07:30
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Never worked for a government entity, and never worked OT without the appropriate rate.
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Old 11th May 2020, 07:59
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Telfer86 View Post
Spoken like you are a worker in Vic Rail heavy duty workshop in the mid 90s & Billy Shorten & Penny Wong has just walked out the door after a rousing lunch time sing along
(what's that labor babble they go on with ? , the commo crap )

Oh boy such sheltered & narrow experience , Arnold at least several hundred 1000 Australians work extra time for no double time , as no doubt some of
the Airline people are finding out right now , bet ya the places where they got preferential treatment don't pay 2times

I'm bored with this debate , let's talk about something interesting

How many QF pilots will be made redundant & which part of company will they come from ?
Well, its really not boring Telfer. Its why the American working class has tanked over the last 20 years and why workers in aviation in Australia have come to think its the new normal. I grew up in GA. I know what its like to be screwed. Question is : why would you aspire to it ? Do you enjoy bending over ? Do you think the management who are screwing you are your friends ? You are the one who needs to get real.
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Old 11th May 2020, 08:48
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Heh heh , the grammar Nazi.
Thats always convincing.
How about arguing the point?
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Old 11th May 2020, 09:17
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Telfer86 View Post
Well the topic is Virgin & this is a pilot website

So I would think at an average of $300K for a NB Capt & around $190 K for an FO

I would have to say that I don't think they Virgin pilots were as put "being screwed'

We have to do something about this grammar of yours
60 hrs/rp
10.5 rp/yr
$300k/yr capt NB average
$190k/yr FO NB average

Any other incorrect figures you want to spit out there Dopey??
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Old 11th May 2020, 12:24
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Well the topic is Virgin & this is a pilot website

So I would think at an average of $300K for a NB Capt & around $190 K for an FO

I would have to say that I don't think they Virgin pilots were as put "being screwed'

We have to do something about this grammar of yours
300K/190K as an average?? Where do I sign for that deal??
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Old 11th May 2020, 18:48
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by non_state_actor View Post
300K/190K as an average?? Where do I sign for that deal??
Nowhere anymore Iím afraid.
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Old 11th May 2020, 22:36
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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REX looking at taking over VA flying

Originally Posted by BNEA320 View Post
so my 2 cents .....

QF & VA had way too many staff getting paid too much, BUT QF had larger share of corporate market, who pay top dollar.

You only had to look around at airports, with many well paid staff, standing around doing stuff all between flights.

New QF will have less staff probably being paid less or paid same but with more required (not saying necessarily pilots will work more hours).

New VA, if it gets up (can the administrators stuff it up ? Looks possible) will have a huge haircut in terms of staff & pay & conditions, otherwise a totally new airline will pick up either B737 or A320 aircraft leases for a song & pay nothing like QF/VA have in the past.

A new airline will only have to fly trunk routes more frequently than JQ & have cheaper fares than QF. Govts might have to subsidise non-trunk routes or JQ will fly them at higher fares, which will hurt tourism industry recovery in the regions.

Plenty of experienced ex VA & other airline staff, who would work for a lot less than they were getting, as have mortgages etc.

A new airline might start slowly, hiring only as needed, but in this new world, they could probably start with 6-8 aircraft or less, doing triangle only to offer a schedule better than JQ. Remember JQ will never fly frequently on the golden triangle or will be competing with QF.

What did Virgin Blue start with ? 2 x ex AN B734s wasn't it ? BNE/SYD only ?

Seem to be plenty of venture capitalists around with plenty of cash to fund it. Wouldn't be surprised if some of pay of any new airline was either shares or % of profit.
The ABC are reporting this morning that REX want to take over the VA domestic flying. All they want is $200m to kick it off. The analysis was that SQ are lurking in the background (Tamasek) and itís been in the pipes for a while.
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