20 buyers now circling Virgin Australia
Said it once, will say it a million times again until something changes.
The only winner in an administration or liquidation is the................
Hiddeous fees, go back to the big A and look how much the bro’s got.
Accountant & Lawyers, always get the gorillas.
The rest lucky to get the dimes!
The only winner in an administration or liquidation is the................
Hiddeous fees, go back to the big A and look how much the bro’s got.
Accountant & Lawyers, always get the gorillas.
The rest lucky to get the dimes!
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Sounds like you lot are saying the market probably would have been better off if they collapsed completely?
Would be in the market and everyone’s interest if Virgin just collapsed, Indigo would be the replacement with a local investor. Franke has been loitering for years. At least we don’t need to rinse and repeat in 5 years.
We can’t go through all this BS mid this decade again.
Would be in the market and everyone’s interest if Virgin just collapsed, Indigo would be the replacement with a local investor. Franke has been loitering for years. At least we don’t need to rinse and repeat in 5 years.
We can’t go through all this BS mid this decade again.
Good to see the good ol' ABC declaring the political bias of their "experts".
Eileen Appelbaum is a left leaning economist who is on a 'progressive, left leaning think tank' who happens to be highly critical of a fund started by a former conservative Republican presidential candidate. No real surprises there.
Eileen Appelbaum is a left leaning economist who is on a 'progressive, left leaning think tank' who happens to be highly critical of a fund started by a former conservative Republican presidential candidate. No real surprises there.
Last edited by non_state_actor; 27th Aug 2020 at 01:36.
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Looks like Bain has created a loophole in the promise to 'fully honour' all flight credits for cancelled Virgin Australia flights. Once Bain takes control, all credits will be converted into a new 'Future Flight' credit voucher but there will be strict restrictions on how those Future Flight credits can be used, they will be locked down to a particular fare category or 'bucket'. So if you hold $500 in flight credit you won't be able to just buy any ticket and put that $500 towards it, there will need to be an available seat of that fare type on the flight you want.
https://www.executivetraveller.com/v...flight-credits
https://www.executivetraveller.com/v...flight-credits
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Looks like Bain has created a loophole in the promise to 'fully honour' all flight credits for cancelled Virgin Australia flights. Once Bain takes control, all credits will be converted into a new 'Future Flight' credit voucher but there will be strict restrictions on how those Future Flight credits can be used, they will be locked down to a particular fare category or 'bucket'. So if you hold $500 in flight credit you won't be able to just buy any ticket and put that $500 towards it, there will need to be an available seat of that fare type on the flight you want.
https://www.executivetraveller.com/v...flight-credits
https://www.executivetraveller.com/v...flight-credits
Lots more of these smoke and mirrors magic tricks to come.
wheels_down, no as I understand it the unsecured debt gets 9 ~ 13 cents on the dollar, the secured debt is paid down releasing the 40 or so 'owned' 737s for sale and leaseback, the redundant employees payed out, trade creditors payed and off we go into the glorious sunny uplands of milk and honey with Unicorns farting Rainbows and Fairies sprinkling happy dust far and wide.
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wheels_down, no as I understand it the unsecured debt gets 9 ~ 13 cents on the dollar, the secured debt is paid down releasing the 40 or so 'owned' 737s for sale and leaseback, the redundant employees payed out, trade creditors payed and off we go into the glorious sunny uplands of milk and honey with Unicorns farting Rainbows and Fairies sprinkling happy dust far and wide.
Apparently there will be for Bain - if no-one else.
Gotta say one of the most eloquent posts for a long time - pissed myself laughing, many thanks.
Last edited by galdian; 27th Aug 2020 at 05:57.
I am a conservative, definitely not a socialist and I think Anne Appelbaum’s opinion is correct.
At the end of the day Branson started an airline then sold out in a float and has been paid royalty fees for 20 years. What's the difference here really?
You forgot to add in there ‘and none of the deadwood management gets given the arse. They just miraculously become good managers, efficiently putting into action a sound airline business plan to make money.’
🙄🙄
🙄🙄
So what if they sell it in 7 years time? They're taking a massive risk right now and I would suggest they are probably interested in actually running an airline in the near term. Something that hasn't happened for a long time at VA it's always been about everything else. The concern for staff would be downward pressure on terms and conditions but that's just how it is unfortunately in this market.
At the end of the day Branson started an airline then sold out in a float and has been paid royalty fees for 20 years. What's the difference here really?
At the end of the day Branson started an airline then sold out in a float and has been paid royalty fees for 20 years. What's the difference here really?
Branson will still collect handsomely as they will be using the Virgin name...remember the fee was around $15-20M per annum I believe!
The problem Boeing, is that Virgin then fails a second time.
Its a bit like trading in a broken down car. The dealer does the minimum to get it running again, puts Bananas in the gearbox, etc. and then sells it again without fixing anything. The new buyer is ripped off. Bain may not do this but that is the criticism levelled at them.
As for the Virgin staff, I’m not sure it will be a pleasant experience. Watch what happens to Scurragh.
Its a bit like trading in a broken down car. The dealer does the minimum to get it running again, puts Bananas in the gearbox, etc. and then sells it again without fixing anything. The new buyer is ripped off. Bain may not do this but that is the criticism levelled at them.
As for the Virgin staff, I’m not sure it will be a pleasant experience. Watch what happens to Scurragh.
That aside, on this particular deal, she opines that,
"If things begin to recover, you can imagine that Bain would sell the aeroplanes to a leasing company and then Virgin Australia will have to rent the aeroplanes back and Bain will walk off with whatever they sold it for,"
If you get down to the bottom of the ABC article Appelbaum admits that Bain’s Virgin deal is different from Toys R Us. Toys R Us was a leveraged buyout of a business with a reasonable balance sheet and Bain were just one of the players in that buyout. The business itself was being squeezed in the traditional shop front retail market by Walmart and the likes and were also coming under pressure from every bricks-and-mortar retailer's worst nightmare, Amazon.
Toys R Us may not have been destined to fail but it certainly wasn't a lay down misere that it would be an ongoing success story. Of course, Ms Appelbaum doesn't mention the fact that after the Bain, KKR, Vornado buy-out, Toys R Us remained profitable for another 8 years. It was only in 2014 that it started to run into trouble. That was around the time that toy sales in the US started to flatten and decline while Amazon's share of that market started to take-off.
In any event, the Virgin deal is about as different as you can get.
Are Bain going to make money out of this deal? That is most assuredly their plan. But we need look no further than the Cyrus-Flybe deal to understand that sometimes those plans don't come to fruition.
In the meantime though they are keeping a business with around 6,000 employees afloat.
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Reading all the above, just imagine what sort of dialogue would of come about on this thread, if Indigo, Brookfield, GBH, Cyrus, were given the keys.
It would be 10 fold gloom and doom. Two of those companies wanted a fleet of 15 to 20 737s aircraft total. That would of meant another 3000 chopped.
Wouldn't get any worse than that besides liquidation.
It would be 10 fold gloom and doom. Two of those companies wanted a fleet of 15 to 20 737s aircraft total. That would of meant another 3000 chopped.
Wouldn't get any worse than that besides liquidation.
The other alternative is that EAG (Etihad Aviation Group) or the "so-called" saviour SIA got their hands on VAH, despite the well documented failures of Etihad and Singapore Airlines overseas investments.
The former presided over a number of bankruptcies including Jet Airways, Air Berlin, VAH, etc and the later lost money on their VS investment when they sold out to DL, plus SIA also presided over the Tiger Airways Australia failure and the NokScoot, Ansett/Air New Zealand group and VAH bankruptcies.
The former presided over a number of bankruptcies including Jet Airways, Air Berlin, VAH, etc and the later lost money on their VS investment when they sold out to DL, plus SIA also presided over the Tiger Airways Australia failure and the NokScoot, Ansett/Air New Zealand group and VAH bankruptcies.
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In the end I think Bain is the least-worst of a bad lot. Not that I am saying they are bad per se but there's the risk of them doing to Virgin Australia what they've done to other companies. I hope that isn't the case and that the Bain bid being led by a local team will actually want to get Virgin Australia back into the air and into profitability as a solid competitor to Qantas, basically embracing Scurrah's own well developed plan. Let's face it, we could have ended up with a lot worse, this could have been a super-cheap LCC or more like "Virgin Blue 2.0" than "Virgin Australia 2.0".
