20 buyers now circling Virgin Australia
Do tell. My recollection is that Ansett flew nine DC-9-31s (VH-CZA through CZI inclusive) from the late '60s through till 1982. Again, my recollection is that most of them were sold to Midway, the rest went to Marfreless/Corsair and ended up in US Navy service. None were sold to Evergreen; I'm pretty sure that they operated -32Fs and -32CFs, not -31s.
Last edited by MickG0105; 13th Aug 2020 at 14:13. Reason: Typo
Sorry to go off topic but some of the AN DC9’s wound up flying for Airborne Express and the tails of these aircraft can now be purchased from MotoArt as a desk.
An Ansett DC9 desk!
https://www.motoart.com/products/des...dc-9-wing-desk
An Ansett DC9 desk!
https://www.motoart.com/products/des...dc-9-wing-desk
Mick, my recollection was evergreen but maybe Corsair. From memory Evergreen did the conversion to U.S. registration and standards, then painted them in Navy colors. They were then contracted to the Navy for personnel transport. We sent a bunch of LAMES to Florida to do most of the work. They had a great time. We had Les Hong on the phone at least once a week. All of them were converted, kitted and repainted in navy colors at Ansetts expense. How do I know this? I was the one keeping track of LAME expenses, including telling the boys to get a few different receipt books and jumble up the receipt numbers a bit as I was finding it increasingly hard to ignore the sequential numbers in their expense accounts. This was before the use of credit cards.
They were CZA, etc. The Electras were RMA, etc. - Wombat Squadron.
Les Hong was an ex Boeing salesman and a personal friend of Rupert and Peter This whole operation was a “nice little earner”.
They were CZA, etc. The Electras were RMA, etc. - Wombat Squadron.
Les Hong was an ex Boeing salesman and a personal friend of Rupert and Peter This whole operation was a “nice little earner”.
Mick, my recollection was evergreen but maybe Corsair. From memory Evergreen did the conversion to U.S. registration and standards, then painted them in Navy colors. They were then contracted to the Navy for personnel transport. We sent a bunch of LAMES to Florida to do most of the work. They had a great time. We had Les Hong on the phone at least once a week. All of them were converted, kitted and repainted in navy colors at Ansetts expense. How do I know this? I was the one keeping track of LAME expenses, including telling the boys to get a few different receipt books and jumble up the receipt numbers a bit as I was finding it increasingly hard to ignore the sequential numbers in their expense accounts. This was before the use of credit cards.
They were CZA, etc. The Electras were RMA, etc. - Wombat Squadron.
Les Hong was an ex Boeing salesman and a personal friend of Rupert and Peter This whole operation was a “nice little earner”.
They were CZA, etc. The Electras were RMA, etc. - Wombat Squadron.
Les Hong was an ex Boeing salesman and a personal friend of Rupert and Peter This whole operation was a “nice little earner”.
Having done a bit of poking around it looks like CZA, B, D and F initially ended up with the US Navy via Marfreless/Corsair. The rest went to Midway. And when I say 'the rest' I had originally forgotten the final three AN DC-9s (they had a fleet of 12 in total) - CZJ, K and L.
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Looks like REX is making a move to pick up some of Virgin's leased B737s which the airline no longer needs, see https://www.executivetraveller.com/n...ed-boeing-737s.
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https://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...e979582afaef2c
The Australian calling the bond holder proposal “a sham” and also says it’s just a maneuver by them to get more than any other creditors through a private agreement with Deloitte.
The Australian calling the bond holder proposal “a sham” and also says it’s just a maneuver by them to get more than any other creditors through a private agreement with Deloitte.
Evertonian
Looks like REX is making a move to pick up some of Virgin's leased B737s which the airline no longer needs, see https://www.executivetraveller.com/n...ed-boeing-737s.
Turnleft080.
Most of the AN DC-9 Crew converted to the B737-277. There was even 2 x B727 Captains who converted to the B737-277 for the minimum period before returning to the B727.
Most of the AN DC-9 Crew converted to the B737-277. There was even 2 x B727 Captains who converted to the B737-277 for the minimum period before returning to the B727.
Last edited by B772; 14th Aug 2020 at 13:00.
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Deloitte getting nervous or something, or, standard for a CEO to ensure they get the troops to fall in line!
Virgin Australia chief executive Paul Scurrah has written to employees outlining why the airline cannot afford for its sale to Bain Capital to be disrupted.
In an email seen by The Weekend Australian, Mr Scurrah said an essential element of the sale agreement was the provision of a loan to allow the airline to continue to trade until the sale was completed.
“Any delay to the administration process would mean we remain in administration for a longer period,” said Mr Scurrah.
“From day one the goal has been and remains, to bring this business out of administration as quickly as possible and avoid the potential outcomes of going into liquidation, which is not something any of us want.”
Virgin Australia went into administration on April 21 with debts of $6.8bn, including $2bn owed to bondholders who want to convert that debt to equity in the airline. Their proposal was rejected by administrators Deloitte due to the binding agreement signed with Bain.
But on Monday the Federal Court will consider whether the bondholders should be allowed to put their proposal to creditors for a vote.
Key bondholders, Broad Peak Investment Advisers and Tor Investment Management, claim to have received “indications of support” from a number of other financial institutions, including Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank, UBS and Morgans.
In his email titled “message to everyone”, Mr Scurrah told employees it would be very disruptive to the sale of Virgin if “for some reason an alternative proposal was allowed” to be put to creditors and voted on.
“We are working incredibly well with Bain Capital and are aligned on our vision to get through COVID-19 and become a profitable and successful business in the future,” Mr Scurrah said. “Bain is the right partner for us and is committing an extraordinary amount of resources, time and expertise to this business.”
He described the proposal put forward by bondholders as “nonbinding, conditional, indicative and incomplete” and apologised that it had created so much noise in the media.
“I know this has a huge impact on you all personally and is unsettling,” Mr Scurrah wrote.
“I can assure you that Bain Capital remain 100 per cent committed to completing the sale and enabling us to be a fierce competitor for years to come with them as our partner.”
Monday’s court hearing before Justice John Middleton has been set down for 2.15pm.
The second creditors meeting is expected to be held on September 4, with the administrators to release their report to creditors in the week of August 24.
The bondholders’ bid has been advised by five former Virgin Blue executives, including co-founder Rob Sherrard.
Under the proposal Virgin Australia would remain an ASXlisted company and include an employees representative on the board.
An $800m capital raising would be undertaken to finance the airline.
Virgin CEO says Bain sale ‘must go ahead’
ROBYN IRONSIDEVirgin Australia chief executive Paul Scurrah has written to employees outlining why the airline cannot afford for its sale to Bain Capital to be disrupted.
In an email seen by The Weekend Australian, Mr Scurrah said an essential element of the sale agreement was the provision of a loan to allow the airline to continue to trade until the sale was completed.
“Any delay to the administration process would mean we remain in administration for a longer period,” said Mr Scurrah.
“From day one the goal has been and remains, to bring this business out of administration as quickly as possible and avoid the potential outcomes of going into liquidation, which is not something any of us want.”
Virgin Australia went into administration on April 21 with debts of $6.8bn, including $2bn owed to bondholders who want to convert that debt to equity in the airline. Their proposal was rejected by administrators Deloitte due to the binding agreement signed with Bain.
But on Monday the Federal Court will consider whether the bondholders should be allowed to put their proposal to creditors for a vote.
Key bondholders, Broad Peak Investment Advisers and Tor Investment Management, claim to have received “indications of support” from a number of other financial institutions, including Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank, UBS and Morgans.
In his email titled “message to everyone”, Mr Scurrah told employees it would be very disruptive to the sale of Virgin if “for some reason an alternative proposal was allowed” to be put to creditors and voted on.
“We are working incredibly well with Bain Capital and are aligned on our vision to get through COVID-19 and become a profitable and successful business in the future,” Mr Scurrah said. “Bain is the right partner for us and is committing an extraordinary amount of resources, time and expertise to this business.”
He described the proposal put forward by bondholders as “nonbinding, conditional, indicative and incomplete” and apologised that it had created so much noise in the media.
“I know this has a huge impact on you all personally and is unsettling,” Mr Scurrah wrote.
“I can assure you that Bain Capital remain 100 per cent committed to completing the sale and enabling us to be a fierce competitor for years to come with them as our partner.”
Monday’s court hearing before Justice John Middleton has been set down for 2.15pm.
The second creditors meeting is expected to be held on September 4, with the administrators to release their report to creditors in the week of August 24.
The bondholders’ bid has been advised by five former Virgin Blue executives, including co-founder Rob Sherrard.
Under the proposal Virgin Australia would remain an ASXlisted company and include an employees representative on the board.
An $800m capital raising would be undertaken to finance the airline.
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ex the SMH: Virgin boss urges workers to ignore bondholder 'noise'........
Who would know, where this all ends up- hopefully, Monday shall provide some 'clarity/productive direction' to what 'seems' from the outset to have been less than a smooth/stable/open process......????
All the Media outlets are running a similar story to the one quoted ex Mr 'Ragnor'- above.
It maybe/maybe not worth, revisiting the events/& reporting of 10 July (over 30 days ago)- 'should' it be of interest:
Hearing of 10 July: Interlocutory Hearing (mp4, 348 mb)
The SMH article of 10 July: https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...10-p55auo.html
Quote #1 (Bolding and inserted 'on'):
Quote #2:
The Bondholder (second) DOCA was confirmed/a given back then, also Middleton J did 'ventilate/postulate' the appointment of a Formal Facilitator, at that time (10 July).
And we now arrive, today with the all points media spiel for the weekend papers- prior Monday and the Fed Court.
The SMH article today (dated pm 14/07/20): https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...14-p55lta.html
Extract (Bolding):
All of the media input (quotes and comments) into these articles of recent times would seem to be (in my view...??), 'ignorant of/or ignoring' ???- what transpired back on the 10th of July.
e.g. extract from the above article:
Was NOT 'that' always going to happen/be the case, since the 10th of July????, or is this 'news' to the process?????
Anyway- see what Monday brings.
rgds/good W/E all
S28- BE
All the Media outlets are running a similar story to the one quoted ex Mr 'Ragnor'- above.
It maybe/maybe not worth, revisiting the events/& reporting of 10 July (over 30 days ago)- 'should' it be of interest:
Hearing of 10 July: Interlocutory Hearing (mp4, 348 mb)
The SMH article of 10 July: https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...10-p55auo.html
Quote #1 (Bolding and inserted 'on'):
Federal Court judge John Middleton dismissed the bondholders' request for the documents after putting the administrator ('on' Notice, that is S28- faks me) notice to share information with bondholders to avoid a legal battle. He left the door open for bondholders to return to court if they were concerned about how the process was being handled by Deloitte.
"The administrators may have to make some rather hard decisions about how much they do disclose information for the purposes of the second creditors' meeting. If they take a particular approach the second creditors' meeting may become litigious," Justice Middleton said.
"I'm just... warning is putting too fine a point on it I may say," he said.
He said it was in "everyone's interest" for as much communication as possible to flow between administrators and creditors as this would alleviate concerns and allow people to gather information to consider the options available.
"The administrators may have to make some rather hard decisions about how much they do disclose information for the purposes of the second creditors' meeting. If they take a particular approach the second creditors' meeting may become litigious," Justice Middleton said.
"I'm just... warning is putting too fine a point on it I may say," he said.
He said it was in "everyone's interest" for as much communication as possible to flow between administrators and creditors as this would alleviate concerns and allow people to gather information to consider the options available.
Mr Jackman told the court his client had been confused by a public statement by Deloitte that the sale of Virgin was a done deal, given it now claimed Bain will also be putting forward a DOCA at the meeting."We are confused as to how the administrator, no doubt with advice, has come to the conclusion that it is a fait accompli and whatever happens at the second creditors' meeting can't change the asset sale to Bain."
Bondholders welcomed Justice Middleton's comments during the hearing and said they looked forward to working with administrators and other Virgin stakeholders to present their recapitalisation plan.
Bondholders welcomed Justice Middleton's comments during the hearing and said they looked forward to working with administrators and other Virgin stakeholders to present their recapitalisation plan.
And we now arrive, today with the all points media spiel for the weekend papers- prior Monday and the Fed Court.
The SMH article today (dated pm 14/07/20): https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...14-p55lta.html
Extract (Bolding):
Virgin boss urges workers to ignore bondholder 'noise'
Virgin boss urges workers to ignore bondholder 'noise'
By Patrick Hatch August 14, 2020 — 5.57pm
Virgin Australia's chief executive Paul Scurrah has warned his workforce that a gambit by bondholders to usurp Bain Capital and take control of the airline would cause disruption and delay the resurrection of the airline.
Hedge funds Broad Peak Investment Advisors and Tor Investments will have an application heard in the Federal Court on Monday to try and force Deloitte to put their rival proposal for Virgin to a vote of creditors on September 4
Virgin CEO Paul Scurrah and administrator Vaughan Strawbridge have dismissed the bondholders' chance of success.
The Singapore and Hong Kong investors, which have enlisted five former Virgin executives including co-founder Rob Sherrard, want bondholders to swap their $2 billion in debts for shares in Virgin and contribute to a $800 million capitalisation.
Mr Scurrah on Friday told workers - who make up the biggest group of creditors by number - that he knew "noise" in the media about the bondholders was unsettling but reassured them Bain remained "100 per cent committed" to Virgin after agreeing to buy the airline in June.
"If for some reason an alternative proposal was allowed to be put to the meeting to be voted on, it would be very disruptive to the sale process and problematic for us," Mr Scurrah said in a note sent to staff seen by this masthead. "Any delay to the administration process would mean we remain in administration for a longer period."
"From day one, the goal has been, and remains, to bring this business out of administration as quickly as possible and avoid the potential outcomes of going into liquidation, which is not something any of us want."
Mr Scurrah said it was important staff knew that the bondholder proposal was "non-binding, conditional, indicative and incomplete".
Virgn's administrator Deloitte has, meanwhile, told members of Virgin's creditors' committee of inspection in a letter sent on Thursday that the sale deal signed with Bain on June 26 precluded it from considering or even discussing any other deal.
"This remains the position unless the asset sale to Bain Capital is set aside by the court," joint administrator Vaughan Strawbridge said in the letter, seen by this masthead. "Currently, neither [Broad Peak and Tor] or any other party, have brought an application to court seeking to set aside the asset sale to Bain Capital."
He said the vote of creditors early next month would only determine how Virgin was sold - either via the asset sale or a deed of company arrangement (DOCA) - and not who it was sold to."We do not see how a competing DOCA that deals with the assets of the business that are subject to the agreement with Bain Capital can be put to the creditors," Mr Strawbridge said.
A key reason Deloitte chose to enter an asset sale was to secure funding to keep Virgin out of liquidation, with Bain immediately taking over financial liability of the airline. Mr Strawbridge said Broad Peak and Tor had not shown any evidence of funding and that their proposal remained "highly conditional".
Virgin went into voluntary administration with debts of $6.8 billion in April after the COVID-19 pandemic forced it to ground most of its fleet.
Virgin Australia's chief executive Paul Scurrah has warned his workforce that a gambit by bondholders to usurp Bain Capital and take control of the airline would cause disruption and delay the resurrection of the airline.
Hedge funds Broad Peak Investment Advisors and Tor Investments will have an application heard in the Federal Court on Monday to try and force Deloitte to put their rival proposal for Virgin to a vote of creditors on September 4
Virgin CEO Paul Scurrah and administrator Vaughan Strawbridge have dismissed the bondholders' chance of success.
The Singapore and Hong Kong investors, which have enlisted five former Virgin executives including co-founder Rob Sherrard, want bondholders to swap their $2 billion in debts for shares in Virgin and contribute to a $800 million capitalisation.
Mr Scurrah on Friday told workers - who make up the biggest group of creditors by number - that he knew "noise" in the media about the bondholders was unsettling but reassured them Bain remained "100 per cent committed" to Virgin after agreeing to buy the airline in June.
"If for some reason an alternative proposal was allowed to be put to the meeting to be voted on, it would be very disruptive to the sale process and problematic for us," Mr Scurrah said in a note sent to staff seen by this masthead. "Any delay to the administration process would mean we remain in administration for a longer period."
"From day one, the goal has been, and remains, to bring this business out of administration as quickly as possible and avoid the potential outcomes of going into liquidation, which is not something any of us want."
Mr Scurrah said it was important staff knew that the bondholder proposal was "non-binding, conditional, indicative and incomplete".
Virgn's administrator Deloitte has, meanwhile, told members of Virgin's creditors' committee of inspection in a letter sent on Thursday that the sale deal signed with Bain on June 26 precluded it from considering or even discussing any other deal.
"This remains the position unless the asset sale to Bain Capital is set aside by the court," joint administrator Vaughan Strawbridge said in the letter, seen by this masthead. "Currently, neither [Broad Peak and Tor] or any other party, have brought an application to court seeking to set aside the asset sale to Bain Capital."
He said the vote of creditors early next month would only determine how Virgin was sold - either via the asset sale or a deed of company arrangement (DOCA) - and not who it was sold to."We do not see how a competing DOCA that deals with the assets of the business that are subject to the agreement with Bain Capital can be put to the creditors," Mr Strawbridge said.
A key reason Deloitte chose to enter an asset sale was to secure funding to keep Virgin out of liquidation, with Bain immediately taking over financial liability of the airline. Mr Strawbridge said Broad Peak and Tor had not shown any evidence of funding and that their proposal remained "highly conditional".
Virgin went into voluntary administration with debts of $6.8 billion in April after the COVID-19 pandemic forced it to ground most of its fleet.
e.g. extract from the above article:
"If for some reason an alternative proposal was allowed to be put to the meeting to be voted on, it would be very disruptive to the sale process and problematic for us," Mr Scurrah said......
Anyway- see what Monday brings.
rgds/good W/E all
S28- BE
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Thank you to the Honourable member S28- BE in providing the above information.
As I see it BP&T advised they would not provide interim funding unless their proposal was accepted
and of course they were not as written by Mr John Durie in todays Aus. I ask the Honourable Member S28- BE
in obtaining that article of substance if possible. Once we have all the information at hand I would have
more confidence in dealing with a Nigerian retirement fund so to all the Bond holders please gather
all your belongings you know where the door is and in the upmost respect PPOQ.
As I see it BP&T advised they would not provide interim funding unless their proposal was accepted
and of course they were not as written by Mr John Durie in todays Aus. I ask the Honourable Member S28- BE
in obtaining that article of substance if possible. Once we have all the information at hand I would have
more confidence in dealing with a Nigerian retirement fund so to all the Bond holders please gather
all your belongings you know where the door is and in the upmost respect PPOQ.
Thank you to the Honourable member S28- BE in providing the above information.
As I see it BP&T advised they would not provide interim funding unless their proposal was accepted
and of course they were not as written by Mr John Durie in todays Aus. I ask the Honourable Member S28- BE
in obtaining that article of substance if possible. Once we have all the information at hand I would have
more confidence in dealing with a Nigerian retirement fund so to all the Bond holders please gather
all your belongings you know where the door is and in the upmost respect PPOQ.
As I see it BP&T advised they would not provide interim funding unless their proposal was accepted
and of course they were not as written by Mr John Durie in todays Aus. I ask the Honourable Member S28- BE
in obtaining that article of substance if possible. Once we have all the information at hand I would have
more confidence in dealing with a Nigerian retirement fund so to all the Bond holders please gather
all your belongings you know where the door is and in the upmost respect PPOQ.
“The assets” let’s look at them.
- A brand recognised throughout Australia. I will call that Marketing capital.
- A business conglomerates of staff and operational processes and systems (including IT and HR) that ensure Virgin is a going concern, even if it is hibernating now.
- Supplier/creditor/customer channels that are mature and workable.
- An AOC and the systems and capability to maintain the same.
- Airport chech in facilities and infrastructure around Australia.
- A considerable market share of domestic travel.
- Motivated and attractive workforce (in the marketing sense)
Folks, non of this stuff came cheap. None of this stuff carries a book value, no matter what accounting principles Deloittes dreams up. There is the core of the argument between Bain, Deloittes and the bond holders in my opinion.
- Bain is naturally trying to get ownership by paying for the rusty filing cabinets and office chairs - with the rest thrown in for free.
- The Bond holders see the reverse - the huge value of the non financial assets compared to the financial debt - which after all is just money that can and will be supplied by anyone, any time and quickly.
- Deloittes, being a bunch of accountants, however you want to put it, cannot and will not appreciate the non financial assets. In addition, I have observed repeatedly that there is precisely ZERO forensic aviation accounting talent outside Qantas and Virgin, so Deloittes are in the dark about the value of much of Virgin.
My assumption is that Deloittes have been rolled by Bain. Deloittes don’t have the skills to work on this scale, Bain does this every day of the week.
‘’So here is my conclusion: The Bain deal is secret because it values the REAL assets of the business at virtually zero and if it saw the light of day, anyone with aviation experience would know it and realise that Deloittes have been comprehensively outplayed by Bain, who stand to make billions out of Deloittes stupidity. This in itself is no sin, but my concern is that the Bain deal will leave Australia worse off on many levels.
I saw a similar situation when Saint Margaret Jackson and Geoff Dixon presided over the attempted privatisation of Qantas. They characterised Qantas as a rusty old beat up Holden ready for the wreckers. The reality was that all Qantas needed was a bit of a tonic - which it got when the oil price collapsed.
So to be optimistic for once, if Virgin got some financial breathing space, courtesy of the bond holders, an enlightened Board who actually have relevant experience instead of being politically correct dummies and a tough but intelligent and fair management - again not steeped in politically correct bull****, then a restructured Virgin has a good future.
- A brand recognised throughout Australia. I will call that Marketing capital.
- A business conglomerates of staff and operational processes and systems (including IT and HR) that ensure Virgin is a going concern, even if it is hibernating now.
- Supplier/creditor/customer channels that are mature and workable.
- An AOC and the systems and capability to maintain the same.
- Airport chech in facilities and infrastructure around Australia.
- A considerable market share of domestic travel.
- Motivated and attractive workforce (in the marketing sense)
Folks, non of this stuff came cheap. None of this stuff carries a book value, no matter what accounting principles Deloittes dreams up. There is the core of the argument between Bain, Deloittes and the bond holders in my opinion.
- Bain is naturally trying to get ownership by paying for the rusty filing cabinets and office chairs - with the rest thrown in for free.
- The Bond holders see the reverse - the huge value of the non financial assets compared to the financial debt - which after all is just money that can and will be supplied by anyone, any time and quickly.
- Deloittes, being a bunch of accountants, however you want to put it, cannot and will not appreciate the non financial assets. In addition, I have observed repeatedly that there is precisely ZERO forensic aviation accounting talent outside Qantas and Virgin, so Deloittes are in the dark about the value of much of Virgin.
My assumption is that Deloittes have been rolled by Bain. Deloittes don’t have the skills to work on this scale, Bain does this every day of the week.
‘’So here is my conclusion: The Bain deal is secret because it values the REAL assets of the business at virtually zero and if it saw the light of day, anyone with aviation experience would know it and realise that Deloittes have been comprehensively outplayed by Bain, who stand to make billions out of Deloittes stupidity. This in itself is no sin, but my concern is that the Bain deal will leave Australia worse off on many levels.
I saw a similar situation when Saint Margaret Jackson and Geoff Dixon presided over the attempted privatisation of Qantas. They characterised Qantas as a rusty old beat up Holden ready for the wreckers. The reality was that all Qantas needed was a bit of a tonic - which it got when the oil price collapsed.
So to be optimistic for once, if Virgin got some financial breathing space, courtesy of the bond holders, an enlightened Board who actually have relevant experience instead of being politically correct dummies and a tough but intelligent and fair management - again not steeped in politically correct bull****, then a restructured Virgin has a good future.
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Bain could provide the breathing space you suggest to Virgin they could out survive Qantas now, but how much would they be willing to tip in to a business thats grounded due to border closures with no end in sight! Victorians now having total disregard to stage 4 lock downs attending markets and cruising the streets of Melbourne as if the problem is gone.
Even if a vaccine is found tomorrow it will be 12-18months before we get any benefit from it due to testing for approval and its use in Australia premiers are closing borders just from a sniff of corona outbreak to protect their own I'm sure they wont let their own have anything injected into them. Then mass producing, having qualified medical staff to administer the dose the logistical list goes on,this has been reported on various media outlets. we are a very long way away from being out of the woods.
Even if a vaccine is found tomorrow it will be 12-18months before we get any benefit from it due to testing for approval and its use in Australia premiers are closing borders just from a sniff of corona outbreak to protect their own I'm sure they wont let their own have anything injected into them. Then mass producing, having qualified medical staff to administer the dose the logistical list goes on,this has been reported on various media outlets. we are a very long way away from being out of the woods.
The bondholders are playing a very poor hand. Their unsecured debt is effectively worthless so offering to convert this shares doesn't really improve anything. The company requires operating cashflow and that has what Bain has provided; to the tune of nearly $1Bn. The bondholders are not offering this. In fact, it is hard to see what the bondholders are offering adds anything of value to the company or its creditors. They are operating from a position of massive self-interest and trying to escalate their debt priority when it was always patently obvious that they had bought unsecured debt.. VA staff, by sheer weight of numbers, continue to hold the whip hand in voting on the Deed. They need to understand the bondholders have no real interest in looking after them.