20 buyers now circling Virgin Australia
Rumour has it that Bain are proposing the award wage on the 737. Fun times.
They just might find that they’ll get more VR requests than originally intended if it is true.
They just might find that they’ll get more VR requests than originally intended if it is true.
Last edited by non_state_actor; 11th Aug 2020 at 22:15.
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For goodness sake she still got that chainsaw in her hands, would someone please take it off her.
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The bondholders are probably snookered because a condition of Bain taking over Virgin was that "no competing proposal would go before creditors because Bain required certainty its bid would be successful in providing interim funding." (AFR 13 July).
I would be surprised if a creditors' meeting could successfully overturn that.
I would be surprised if a creditors' meeting could successfully overturn that.
Rumour has it that Bain are proposing the award wage on the 737. Fun times.
They just might find that they’ll get more VR requests than originally intended if it is true.
They just might find that they’ll get more VR requests than originally intended if it is true.
If Bain simply post out contracts paying award wages, starting at the top of the list of people they want to keep on, they will probably have enough takers before they reach the bottom. Having to take the basic award for a few years in order to keep the B737 job and BNE base would be a price many would pay, given the lack of alternatives.
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You still haven’t seen the claws or smelt the rotting breath of this vampire. Nothing you can think of in your worst nightmares is impossible as long as it’s legal. Don’t you realise that you are standing between the Bain staff and a generational fortune? Some of you still don’t get it. These guys are going to walk away with fortunes that will support their great grandchildren. That is why I keep reminding you about their exit strategy.
When you sit down at table with them remember that. What is at stake is your salary versus them becoming rich beyond the dreams of avarice. Plan accordingly.
When you sit down at table with them remember that. What is at stake is your salary versus them becoming rich beyond the dreams of avarice. Plan accordingly.
I totally agree and I’ll add something that came to light 6 days ago.
Bain (via the so called PS puppet) announces massive redundancies even after months of blowing sun up your ass 🤦♂️ (Saw that coming months ago) but wait, this was their plan all along, why?
Take this scenario, Bain’s history is chiseled into stone (go ask all their other victims), they announce massive redundancies and cancel a well run B777 cash flow freight run between Australia and the US, and 4 weeks prior creditors meeting where a vote would confirm (or not) Bains ownership of VA BUT instead of waiting (hiding/more BS) they made that announcement 🤷♂️
Their plan was never to run/own anything, their plan was to buy assets (be it little in the case of VA) strip and make money! as they have first dibs in a liquidation 💡
They wanted to upset the apple cart and your staff played right into their hands of showing how much you loved the company and your 2 faced CEO.
Bain are praying the latest 3000 victims plus previous ones from Tiger and NZ hate Bain so much they might just vote NO along with the Bond Holders, thus it has a very good chance the liquidation will finally go ahead.
Good work PS, you didn’t see that coming OR did you? Or was moving your office into the same building as your Administrator an accident? 😎
I feel sorry for you lot, now it’s time for the rest to pull your heads out of the sand and have a good look around, Bain blind sided you! Are you still going to send 😍😍😍😍👄👄👄👄👄❤️🧡💛💚💙🥰🥰🥰🥰 to PS and his team now? Replaced with this 💔💔💔 I’m guessing
I totally agree and I’ll add something that came to light 6 days ago.
Bain (via the so called PS puppet) announces massive redundancies even after months of blowing sun up your ass 🤦♂️ (Saw that coming months ago) but wait, this was their plan all along, why?
Take this scenario, Bain’s history is chiseled into stone (go ask all their other victims), they announce massive redundancies and cancel a well run B777 cash flow freight run between Australia and the US, and 4 weeks prior creditors meeting where a vote would confirm (or not) Bains ownership of VA BUT instead of waiting (hiding/more BS) they made that announcement 🤷♂️
Their plan was never to run/own anything, their plan was to buy assets (be it little in the case of VA) strip and make money! as they have first dibs in a liquidation 💡
They wanted to upset the apple cart and your staff played right into their hands of showing how much you loved the company and your 2 faced CEO.
Bain are praying the latest 3000 victims plus previous ones from Tiger and NZ hate Bain so much they might just vote NO along with the Bond Holders, thus it has a very good chance the liquidation will finally go ahead.
Good work PS, you didn’t see that coming OR did you? Or was moving your office into the same building as your Administrator an accident? 😎
I feel sorry for you lot, now it’s time for the rest to pull your heads out of the sand and have a good look around, Bain blind sided you! Are you still going to send 😍😍😍😍👄👄👄👄👄❤️🧡💛💚💙🥰🥰🥰🥰 to PS and his team now? Replaced with this 💔💔💔 I’m guessing
Bain (via the so called PS puppet) announces massive redundancies even after months of blowing sun up your ass 🤦♂️ (Saw that coming months ago) but wait, this was their plan all along, why?
Take this scenario, Bain’s history is chiseled into stone (go ask all their other victims), they announce massive redundancies and cancel a well run B777 cash flow freight run between Australia and the US, and 4 weeks prior creditors meeting where a vote would confirm (or not) Bains ownership of VA BUT instead of waiting (hiding/more BS) they made that announcement 🤷♂️
Their plan was never to run/own anything, their plan was to buy assets (be it little in the case of VA) strip and make money! as they have first dibs in a liquidation 💡
They wanted to upset the apple cart and your staff played right into their hands of showing how much you loved the company and your 2 faced CEO.
Bain are praying the latest 3000 victims plus previous ones from Tiger and NZ hate Bain so much they might just vote NO along with the Bond Holders, thus it has a very good chance the liquidation will finally go ahead.
Good work PS, you didn’t see that coming OR did you? Or was moving your office into the same building as your Administrator an accident? 😎
I feel sorry for you lot, now it’s time for the rest to pull your heads out of the sand and have a good look around, Bain blind sided you! Are you still going to send 😍😍😍😍👄👄👄👄👄❤️🧡💛💚💙🥰🥰🥰🥰 to PS and his team now? Replaced with this 💔💔💔 I’m guessing
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I totally agree and I’ll add something that came to light 6 days ago.
Bain (via the so called PS puppet) announces massive redundancies even after months of blowing sun up your ass 🤦♂️ (Saw that coming months ago) but wait, this was their plan all along, why?
Take this scenario, Bain’s history is chiseled into stone (go ask all their other victims), they announce massive redundancies and cancel a well run B777 cash flow freight run between Australia and the US, and 4 weeks prior creditors meeting where a vote would confirm (or not) Bains ownership of VA BUT instead of waiting (hiding/more BS) they made that announcement 🤷♂️
Their plan was never to run/own anything, their plan was to buy assets (be it little in the case of VA) strip and make money! as they have first dibs in a liquidation 💡
They wanted to upset the apple cart and your staff played right into their hands of showing how much you loved the company and your 2 faced CEO.
Bain are praying the latest 3000 victims plus previous ones from Tiger and NZ hate Bain so much they might just vote NO along with the Bond Holders, thus it has a very good chance the liquidation will finally go ahead.
Good work PS, you didn’t see that coming OR did you? Or was moving your office into the same building as your Administrator an accident? 😎
I feel sorry for you lot, now it’s time for the rest to pull your heads out of the sand and have a good look around, Bain blind sided you! Are you still going to send 😍😍😍😍👄👄👄👄👄❤️🧡💛💚💙🥰🥰🥰🥰 to PS and his team now? Replaced with this 💔💔💔 I’m guessing
Bain (via the so called PS puppet) announces massive redundancies even after months of blowing sun up your ass 🤦♂️ (Saw that coming months ago) but wait, this was their plan all along, why?
Take this scenario, Bain’s history is chiseled into stone (go ask all their other victims), they announce massive redundancies and cancel a well run B777 cash flow freight run between Australia and the US, and 4 weeks prior creditors meeting where a vote would confirm (or not) Bains ownership of VA BUT instead of waiting (hiding/more BS) they made that announcement 🤷♂️
Their plan was never to run/own anything, their plan was to buy assets (be it little in the case of VA) strip and make money! as they have first dibs in a liquidation 💡
They wanted to upset the apple cart and your staff played right into their hands of showing how much you loved the company and your 2 faced CEO.
Bain are praying the latest 3000 victims plus previous ones from Tiger and NZ hate Bain so much they might just vote NO along with the Bond Holders, thus it has a very good chance the liquidation will finally go ahead.
Good work PS, you didn’t see that coming OR did you? Or was moving your office into the same building as your Administrator an accident? 😎
I feel sorry for you lot, now it’s time for the rest to pull your heads out of the sand and have a good look around, Bain blind sided you! Are you still going to send 😍😍😍😍👄👄👄👄👄❤️🧡💛💚💙🥰🥰🥰🥰 to PS and his team now? Replaced with this 💔💔💔 I’m guessing
Seems to be there’s a large amount of people here who think that VA crew have no idea what’s about to happen to them and everyone else here does. We’re well aware it’s not rainbows and unicorns.
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Oz Pilot and Sunfish. Do you think Cyrus, Indigo, Brookfield, GBH would of done anything different. If anything the last 3 would of turned it into Ryanair with 20 planes.
I remember Cyrus saying keeping the fleet intact. They were very much less capitalised and when Deloittes through them out the door they revealed they would
also scale back the airline to what Bain is doing now.
I remember Cyrus saying keeping the fleet intact. They were very much less capitalised and when Deloittes through them out the door they revealed they would
also scale back the airline to what Bain is doing now.
I don't quite know how VIrgin Staff 'played into their hands' ? Staff always knew big redundancies were coming. No one was under any illusions about what was going to occur. I don't think looking at Workspace really gives any sense of what everyone (at least Flight crew anyway) knew and sensed ? Oz pilot speaks as if any of them had any control over events. Other than the Unions fighting the good fight for entitlements, ongoing terms and conditions, re-employment, and stand down provisions etc. Virgin employees are just passengers in this giant turd of a roller coaster ride.
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About the only certain thing one can say about this unholy mess is that there will be a creditors' meeting and that there will be a vote - everything else is speculation.
I don't believe Tiger and VANZ have any voting rights at this meeting.
I don't believe Tiger and VANZ have any voting rights at this meeting.
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This would be correct if there were other jobs available in the usual places such as Asia and the Middle East, those highly paid China jobs would become worth going for too. At the moment there are so many pilots stood down that getting ANY flying job at all would be a miracle. Even when borders reopen, travel isn't forecast to return to 2019 levels until 2024.
If Bain simply post out contracts paying award wages, starting at the top of the list of people they want to keep on, they will probably have enough takers before they reach the bottom. Having to take the basic award for a few years in order to keep the B737 job and BNE base would be a price many would pay, given the lack of alternatives.
If Bain simply post out contracts paying award wages, starting at the top of the list of people they want to keep on, they will probably have enough takers before they reach the bottom. Having to take the basic award for a few years in order to keep the B737 job and BNE base would be a price many would pay, given the lack of alternatives.
This guy sounds like he's reading off a script prepared by the Chinese government. Whilst domestic air travel in China is increasing, most of the foreign pilots were laid off or given LWOP, those remaining are increasingly on local terms rather than the high $$$ contracts which got them there in the first place. Moving to China was a big gamble due to the high failure for medical and sim ride, agencies used to send over any pilot they could get their hands on who met the minimums as the percentage that got through was so low. Then there was the issue of commuting or moving families there.
All Bain need to do is offer contracts to the exact number they want moving down the list, the percentage that sign will indicate the "no show rate". They then make up the shortfall in round two by accounting for that rate eg. send out 200 more offers if they need 170 pilots. Job done.
All Bain need to do is offer contracts to the exact number they want moving down the list, the percentage that sign will indicate the "no show rate". They then make up the shortfall in round two by accounting for that rate eg. send out 200 more offers if they need 170 pilots. Job done.
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I’m sorry, I must be missing something.
Everyone seems to think that Bain can dictate the terms and and conditions of the pilots who work for them.
That is not true.
This is Australia. There are a lot of things in Australian employment law that favour the employer, but this is not one of them! Bain Capital cannot force you to vary your EBA. They will ask you, they will try to bluff you, but you do not need to agree to it.
They will try on a huge bluff: for example if you don’t agree to xxx then yyy pilots will be made redundant.
Do not accept that bluff.
I’ve seen it before,
regards, Fred.
Everyone seems to think that Bain can dictate the terms and and conditions of the pilots who work for them.
That is not true.
This is Australia. There are a lot of things in Australian employment law that favour the employer, but this is not one of them! Bain Capital cannot force you to vary your EBA. They will ask you, they will try to bluff you, but you do not need to agree to it.
They will try on a huge bluff: for example if you don’t agree to xxx then yyy pilots will be made redundant.
Do not accept that bluff.
I’ve seen it before,
regards, Fred.
The bond holders are not without support.
https://www.theage.com.au/business/c...12-p55l3j.html
What is Bains exit strategy?
Whatever it is, you can be assured they will plan to walk away with every dollar they can hoover up from Creditors, suppliers, staff, the public and the state and federal government.
I promise you, Deloittes by now is wishing they never heard of Bain because they are going to be dragged through the mincing machine by the terms of the heads of agreement they signed.
I refer you to the terminology of the news report about one aspect; Bain “injected “ $120 million or so into Virgin. Not “invested” because they aren’t solvent, not “lent” because there is no entity to lend to. Anyone care to guess the terms of that little earner? My guess is that the interest rate on that money, if you can call it that, is effectively 100% every three months. In other words, Bain will get to double its money even if the deal falls through. They have probably ALREADY covered the costs of this deal and made a handsome profit even if Virgin was liquidated tomorrow. The poor schmucks responsible are Deloittes.
”we have a. secret deal”. “No, we won’t look at your deal because ours is better”. “we will never show you the deal”. Don’t you poor guys understand the games being played here?
https://www.theage.com.au/business/c...12-p55l3j.html
What is Bains exit strategy?
Whatever it is, you can be assured they will plan to walk away with every dollar they can hoover up from Creditors, suppliers, staff, the public and the state and federal government.
I promise you, Deloittes by now is wishing they never heard of Bain because they are going to be dragged through the mincing machine by the terms of the heads of agreement they signed.
I refer you to the terminology of the news report about one aspect; Bain “injected “ $120 million or so into Virgin. Not “invested” because they aren’t solvent, not “lent” because there is no entity to lend to. Anyone care to guess the terms of that little earner? My guess is that the interest rate on that money, if you can call it that, is effectively 100% every three months. In other words, Bain will get to double its money even if the deal falls through. They have probably ALREADY covered the costs of this deal and made a handsome profit even if Virgin was liquidated tomorrow. The poor schmucks responsible are Deloittes.
”we have a. secret deal”. “No, we won’t look at your deal because ours is better”. “we will never show you the deal”. Don’t you poor guys understand the games being played here?
I’m sorry, I must be missing something.
Everyone seems to think that Bain can dictate the terms and and conditions of the pilots who work for them.
That is not true.
This is Australia. There are a lot of things in Australian employment law that favour the employer, but this is not one of them! Bain Capital cannot force you to vary your EBA. They will ask you, they will try to bluff you, but you do not need to agree to it.
They will try on a huge bluff: for example if you don’t agree to xxx then yyy pilots will be made redundant.
Do not accept that bluff.
I’ve seen it before,
regards, Fred.
Everyone seems to think that Bain can dictate the terms and and conditions of the pilots who work for them.
That is not true.
This is Australia. There are a lot of things in Australian employment law that favour the employer, but this is not one of them! Bain Capital cannot force you to vary your EBA. They will ask you, they will try to bluff you, but you do not need to agree to it.
They will try on a huge bluff: for example if you don’t agree to xxx then yyy pilots will be made redundant.
Do not accept that bluff.
I’ve seen it before,
regards, Fred.
They will make the same amount of crew redundant no matter how you vary your pay scales etc.
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The bond holders are not without support.
https://www.theage.com.au/business/c...12-p55l3j.html
What is Bains exit strategy?
Whatever it is, you can be assured they will plan to walk away with every dollar they can hoover up from Creditors, suppliers, staff, the public and the state and federal government.
I promise you, Deloittes by now is wishing they never heard of Bain because they are going to be dragged through the mincing machine by the terms of the heads of agreement they signed.
I refer you to the terminology of the news report about one aspect; Bain “injected “ $120 million or so into Virgin. Not “invested” because they aren’t solvent, not “lent” because there is no entity to lend to. Anyone care to guess the terms of that little earner? My guess is that the interest rate on that money, if you can call it that, is effectively 100% every three months. In other words, Bain will get to double its money even if the deal falls through. They have probably ALREADY covered the costs of this deal and made a handsome profit even if Virgin was liquidated tomorrow. The poor schmucks responsible are Deloittes.
”we have a. secret deal”. “No, we won’t look at your deal because ours is better”. “we will never show you the deal”. Don’t you poor guys understand the games being played here?
https://www.theage.com.au/business/c...12-p55l3j.html
What is Bains exit strategy?
Whatever it is, you can be assured they will plan to walk away with every dollar they can hoover up from Creditors, suppliers, staff, the public and the state and federal government.
I promise you, Deloittes by now is wishing they never heard of Bain because they are going to be dragged through the mincing machine by the terms of the heads of agreement they signed.
I refer you to the terminology of the news report about one aspect; Bain “injected “ $120 million or so into Virgin. Not “invested” because they aren’t solvent, not “lent” because there is no entity to lend to. Anyone care to guess the terms of that little earner? My guess is that the interest rate on that money, if you can call it that, is effectively 100% every three months. In other words, Bain will get to double its money even if the deal falls through. They have probably ALREADY covered the costs of this deal and made a handsome profit even if Virgin was liquidated tomorrow. The poor schmucks responsible are Deloittes.
”we have a. secret deal”. “No, we won’t look at your deal because ours is better”. “we will never show you the deal”. Don’t you poor guys understand the games being played here?
You’ve talked a lot about Bain’s exit strategy. With the ‘guesse’s’ ‘probably’s’ and ‘maybe’s’ from the above post, why don’t you inform us what it is.
If I knew Bains exit strategy I would. However I’m afraid, based on overseas experiences, that it is not beneficial to anyone but Bain, although no doubt it will be perfectly legal as are all their actions. The secrecy surrounding their offer suggests it.
‘What I am trying to explain is that the types of behaviour that manifest themselves in these deals is what I would term “non empathetic “ to an extreme. This is because people’s behaviour changes when they stand to make a real fortune out of manipulating you and your situation. They have no compunction whatsoever about destroying you and your career.
The American exit strategy is to strip the remaining cash out of the business, load the company to the rafters with debt and then flog it to the stock market. The resulting mess then falls apart to
the dismay of staff, investors, creditors the public and the government AGAIN.
‘What I am trying to explain is that the types of behaviour that manifest themselves in these deals is what I would term “non empathetic “ to an extreme. This is because people’s behaviour changes when they stand to make a real fortune out of manipulating you and your situation. They have no compunction whatsoever about destroying you and your career.
The American exit strategy is to strip the remaining cash out of the business, load the company to the rafters with debt and then flog it to the stock market. The resulting mess then falls apart to
the dismay of staff, investors, creditors the public and the government AGAIN.
This guy sounds like he's reading off a script prepared by the Chinese government. Whilst domestic air travel in China is increasing, most of the foreign pilots were laid off or given LWOP, those remaining are increasingly on local terms rather than the high $$$ contracts which got them there in the first place. Moving to China was a big gamble due to the high failure for medical and sim ride, agencies used to send over any pilot they could get their hands on who met the minimums as the percentage that got through was so low. Then there was the issue of commuting or moving families there.
All Bain need to do is offer contracts to the exact number they want moving down the list, the percentage that sign will indicate the "no show rate". They then make up the shortfall in round two by accounting for that rate eg. send out 200 more offers if they need 170 pilots. Job done.
All Bain need to do is offer contracts to the exact number they want moving down the list, the percentage that sign will indicate the "no show rate". They then make up the shortfall in round two by accounting for that rate eg. send out 200 more offers if they need 170 pilots. Job done.
