Now we see the big picture
China has domestic food safety issues at all levels. Fast food is a terrible choice of Americans and now Chinese. The US has an amazing choice of healthy and safe food.
I'd choose America and an AR15 with a dazzler to protect my vegie patch.
I'd choose America and an AR15 with a dazzler to protect my vegie patch.
I’ll go for the nation that hasn’t had a Great Leap Forward, a Cultural Revolution, a Tiananmen Square massacre, ‘social credit points’, a million Uighurs in concentration camps and a communist dictatorship as the deciding factor. But each to their own. I’m not that keen on either option myself, but it seems that only one of them has a heap of people desperate to migrate there.
You could probably say that a nation that didn’t recognise its indigenous population as human beings until 1967 probably deserves to be in the same category as well.......
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What about the one that had a genocide of native Americans, was one of the last in the Western world to abolish slavery only after a civil war when half the country rebelled to keep slaves, cops who get incredibly trigger happy (the police murder of Australian expat Justine Damond in America recently is one great example) , an NSA spying regime, has bombed and invaded numerous nations for financial gain, has overthrown dozens of democratically elected governments to replace them with dictators when those democratically elected governments don’t toe the line, has the worlds highest prison population (total and per capita), has a much high murder and crime rate than most of the western world?
You could probably say that a nation that didn’t recognise its indigenous population as human beings until 1967 probably deserves to be in the same category as well.......
You could probably say that a nation that didn’t recognise its indigenous population as human beings until 1967 probably deserves to be in the same category as well.......
Someone is swinging between Lenin's useful idiot and a want of some sort of bizarre national flagellation.
China is a brutal regime past, present and future that we have a complex relationship with. Simple contrarian arguments and elemental history lessons seem to me to be rather pointless when moving forward.
China is a brutal regime past, present and future that we have a complex relationship with. Simple contrarian arguments and elemental history lessons seem to me to be rather pointless when moving forward.
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Sounds like the research going on in wuhan was started in NIH labs in the USA and was outsourced to China anyway. The yanks were paying us$3.7 million in taxpayer funds to China to research coronaviruses for them. Dr Fauci was in charge of the program..typical saving money by outsourcing to China then scapegoat them when it goes wrong
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-pandemic.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-pandemic.html
Evertonian
Sounds like the research going on in wuhan was started in NIH labs in the USA and was outsourced to China anyway. The yanks were paying us$3.7 million in taxpayer funds to China to research coronaviruses for them. Dr Fauci was in charge of the program..typical saving money by outsourcing to China then scapegoat them when it goes wrong
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-pandemic.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-pandemic.html
“The concerning thing is that the rising power of China is the rising power of a system that doesn’t allow for leaders to be held to account or removed by the people.”
How much accountability was there when the US overthrew the leader of Guatemala then funded, trained and armed the death squads that were responsible for the murder of over 3000 civilians in a civil war that killed over 200,000.
Or in Nicaragua where the ICJ found that America “violated international law” by directly supporting the contras in a war that killed over 30,000 people and many civilians.
Or El Salvador. Or Honduras. Or Chile. Or Uruguay. Or Panama.
Or as Dr Dre mentioned previously, in Libya, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan. And Vietnam and Laos and Cambodia.
There was zero accountability displayed by everyone in the US from the President down to the point where some of the architects of this activity have returned to participate in the totally manufactured coming conflict with Venezuela.
Can you honestly lay these same charges against China?
“The Ausi SAS goings on are not on the same scale as the problems that may be emerging.”
May be emerging? What exactly are you implying there. What nefarious activities do you think “may” be emerging with China as apposed to the actual problems that America has created in violating international law.
"If you think that a system like China’s can function indefinitely without ending in large scale atrocity then that is where you and I differ fundamentally and the reason we probably won’t be able to agree on how best to go forward.”
Do you think the “system” like America’s has not resulted in large scale atrocity? How many people in Iraq have been unnecessarily killed as a result of the lies about WMD?
“Ask an Iraqi, an Afghani, a Syrian, a Libyan, an Iranian etc if they think their own governments have any culpability in this ??"
Perhaps you could provide some clear examples of how these Governments are culpable in the total destruction of their nations.
How much accountability was there when the US overthrew the leader of Guatemala then funded, trained and armed the death squads that were responsible for the murder of over 3000 civilians in a civil war that killed over 200,000.
Or in Nicaragua where the ICJ found that America “violated international law” by directly supporting the contras in a war that killed over 30,000 people and many civilians.
Or El Salvador. Or Honduras. Or Chile. Or Uruguay. Or Panama.
Or as Dr Dre mentioned previously, in Libya, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan. And Vietnam and Laos and Cambodia.
There was zero accountability displayed by everyone in the US from the President down to the point where some of the architects of this activity have returned to participate in the totally manufactured coming conflict with Venezuela.
Can you honestly lay these same charges against China?
“The Ausi SAS goings on are not on the same scale as the problems that may be emerging.”
May be emerging? What exactly are you implying there. What nefarious activities do you think “may” be emerging with China as apposed to the actual problems that America has created in violating international law.
"If you think that a system like China’s can function indefinitely without ending in large scale atrocity then that is where you and I differ fundamentally and the reason we probably won’t be able to agree on how best to go forward.”
Do you think the “system” like America’s has not resulted in large scale atrocity? How many people in Iraq have been unnecessarily killed as a result of the lies about WMD?
“Ask an Iraqi, an Afghani, a Syrian, a Libyan, an Iranian etc if they think their own governments have any culpability in this ??"
Perhaps you could provide some clear examples of how these Governments are culpable in the total destruction of their nations.
It’s scary to see the blinkered world view of some posters on this thread.
-Australia’s response to the Covid threat has been ‘inept’?
-It’s all part of some dastardly Chinese plot to take over the world?
-Bill Gates. WTF?
-China would be a great place to live!
Surely someone can work the Illuminati and/or the CIA into the narrative somehow.
Here’s a helpful hint for some of you: the world is chaotic, complex and rarely black and white - but if you see the same bad guys behind every event, perhaps you aren’t seeing very clearly.
-Australia’s response to the Covid threat has been ‘inept’?
-It’s all part of some dastardly Chinese plot to take over the world?
-Bill Gates. WTF?
-China would be a great place to live!
Surely someone can work the Illuminati and/or the CIA into the narrative somehow.
Here’s a helpful hint for some of you: the world is chaotic, complex and rarely black and white - but if you see the same bad guys behind every event, perhaps you aren’t seeing very clearly.
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“The concerning thing is that the rising power of China is the rising power of a system that doesn’t allow for leaders to be held to account or removed by the people.”
How much accountability was there when the US overthrew the leader of Guatemala then funded, trained and armed the death squads that were responsible for the murder of over 3000 civilians in a civil war that killed over 200,000.
Or in Nicaragua where the ICJ found that America “violated international law” by directly supporting the contras in a war that killed over 30,000 people and many civilians.
Or El Salvador. Or Honduras. Or Chile. Or Uruguay. Or Panama.
Or as Dr Dre mentioned previously, in Libya, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan. And Vietnam and Laos and Cambodia.
There was zero accountability displayed by everyone in the US from the President down to the point where some of the architects of this activity have returned to participate in the totally manufactured coming conflict with Venezuela.
Can you honestly lay these same charges against China?
“The Ausi SAS goings on are not on the same scale as the problems that may be emerging.”
May be emerging? What exactly are you implying there. What nefarious activities do you think “may” be emerging with China as apposed to the actual problems that America has created in violating international law.
"If you think that a system like China’s can function indefinitely without ending in large scale atrocity then that is where you and I differ fundamentally and the reason we probably won’t be able to agree on how best to go forward.”
Do you think the “system” like America’s has not resulted in large scale atrocity? How many people in Iraq have been unnecessarily killed as a result of the lies about WMD?
“Ask an Iraqi, an Afghani, a Syrian, a Libyan, an Iranian etc if they think their own governments have any culpability in this ??"
Perhaps you could provide some clear examples of how these Governments are culpable in the total destruction of their nations.
How much accountability was there when the US overthrew the leader of Guatemala then funded, trained and armed the death squads that were responsible for the murder of over 3000 civilians in a civil war that killed over 200,000.
Or in Nicaragua where the ICJ found that America “violated international law” by directly supporting the contras in a war that killed over 30,000 people and many civilians.
Or El Salvador. Or Honduras. Or Chile. Or Uruguay. Or Panama.
Or as Dr Dre mentioned previously, in Libya, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan. And Vietnam and Laos and Cambodia.
There was zero accountability displayed by everyone in the US from the President down to the point where some of the architects of this activity have returned to participate in the totally manufactured coming conflict with Venezuela.
Can you honestly lay these same charges against China?
“The Ausi SAS goings on are not on the same scale as the problems that may be emerging.”
May be emerging? What exactly are you implying there. What nefarious activities do you think “may” be emerging with China as apposed to the actual problems that America has created in violating international law.
"If you think that a system like China’s can function indefinitely without ending in large scale atrocity then that is where you and I differ fundamentally and the reason we probably won’t be able to agree on how best to go forward.”
Do you think the “system” like America’s has not resulted in large scale atrocity? How many people in Iraq have been unnecessarily killed as a result of the lies about WMD?
“Ask an Iraqi, an Afghani, a Syrian, a Libyan, an Iranian etc if they think their own governments have any culpability in this ??"
Perhaps you could provide some clear examples of how these Governments are culpable in the total destruction of their nations.
The coalition of the killing, lead by the USA and its lapdogs are equally culpable when it comes to the loss of human life. And let’s not forget their ‘Federal Reserve’ is a Private banking cartel that controls the Government and America’s finances, a nation of over 300 million people held captive to a private system. What an utter joke.
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I don’t think anyone saw that one coming, particularly given Virgin is almost wholly foreign owned to begin with....
Other than that it’s.... nope, it’s still one of the worst conspiracy theories I’ve ever heard.
Where’s the damn rolling on the floor laughing emoji!
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What about the one that had a genocide of native Americans, was one of the last in the Western world to abolish slavery only after a civil war when half the country rebelled to keep slaves, cops who get incredibly trigger happy (the police murder of Australian expat Justine Damond in America recently is one great example) , an NSA spying regime, has bombed and invaded numerous nations for financial gain, has overthrown dozens of democratically elected governments to replace them with dictators when those democratically elected governments don’t toe the line, has the worlds highest prison population (total and per capita), has a much high murder and crime rate than most of the western world?
You could probably say that a nation that didn’t recognise its indigenous population as human beings until 1967 probably deserves to be in the same category as well.......
You could probably say that a nation that didn’t recognise its indigenous population as human beings until 1967 probably deserves to be in the same category as well.......
Remember this......
When Vietnam was partitioned 1954 900,000 Vietnamese fled south. 2,000,000 more were stopped by the Viet Minh.
Nobody risked their lives to climb over barbed wire to get INTO Hungary Poland or Czechoslovakia during the Cold War.
Nobody climbed over the Berlin Wall to get INTO East Berlin.
Meanwhile China killed 50 million of its own people in the Great Leap Forward and then another couple of million in the Cultural Revolution and millions more sent off to “re-education camps”.
And then there is the Gulag Archipelago......
Etc. Etc.
The USA made many mistakes. Nobody denies that. But the world would be a dismal place without it.
The world is about to find out what its like when the USA walks away.
And its going to be ugly.
This whole thread needs to move to Jet Blast................
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Let's get the timeline in perspective:
January - Chinese virus takes hold in Wuhan (Many deaths, but a small sacrifice in things to come)
February to April - Virus escapes China to the western world, destroying jobs, companies and the economy in general of pretty much every western country, and by the way, kills over a million people.
April - Entire world's airlines sent to the brink of survival. Flights stopped. Aircraft grounded, pilots, CC and support staff stood down. No international flights for a year? The world grinds to a halt.
April - Virgin AustralIa on the brink of bankruptcy. But it's only the first to fall. We know there will be many others.
Arpril 17 - Three Chinese government-owned airlines emerge as the white knights to take over Virgin Australia, at rock bottom fire sale price. (The endgame comes into focus)
Well, my friends, do you see the picture here, the irony of how this pandemic plays out? Who suffers and who profits? Who started the mess and who will benefit from it? Who will lose and who will win? We understand that Australian Foreign Investment Review Board has expanded its powers to specifically prevent foreign (PC purists, please read "Chinese") take-over of undervalued Australian assets, as a result of COVID. It seems Virgin may slip under the radar. Let's hope that doesn't happen. Next thing, God forbid, we might lease our northern harbours to them. Those same harbours that re-supply military assets, in place to counter a threat from antagonists that we are afraid to name. Madness!
Our problem is that we're too PC. We've evolved. We don't kill live animals in wet markets, we don't eat bats and dogs, we do have a certain moral ethic. Anyway what's your view? This is no time to sit on the fence and hope that the problem just goes away - it won't. I'm afraid to say it's just starting.
January - Chinese virus takes hold in Wuhan (Many deaths, but a small sacrifice in things to come)
February to April - Virus escapes China to the western world, destroying jobs, companies and the economy in general of pretty much every western country, and by the way, kills over a million people.
April - Entire world's airlines sent to the brink of survival. Flights stopped. Aircraft grounded, pilots, CC and support staff stood down. No international flights for a year? The world grinds to a halt.
April - Virgin AustralIa on the brink of bankruptcy. But it's only the first to fall. We know there will be many others.
Arpril 17 - Three Chinese government-owned airlines emerge as the white knights to take over Virgin Australia, at rock bottom fire sale price. (The endgame comes into focus)
Well, my friends, do you see the picture here, the irony of how this pandemic plays out? Who suffers and who profits? Who started the mess and who will benefit from it? Who will lose and who will win? We understand that Australian Foreign Investment Review Board has expanded its powers to specifically prevent foreign (PC purists, please read "Chinese") take-over of undervalued Australian assets, as a result of COVID. It seems Virgin may slip under the radar. Let's hope that doesn't happen. Next thing, God forbid, we might lease our northern harbours to them. Those same harbours that re-supply military assets, in place to counter a threat from antagonists that we are afraid to name. Madness!
Our problem is that we're too PC. We've evolved. We don't kill live animals in wet markets, we don't eat bats and dogs, we do have a certain moral ethic. Anyway what's your view? This is no time to sit on the fence and hope that the problem just goes away - it won't. I'm afraid to say it's just starting.
you missed the bit where it started in November but the Chinese covered it up helped by WHO ineptitude
Aaaah , the self loathing purveyors of moral equivalence are still alive and well.
Remember this......
When Vietnam was partitioned 1954 900,000 Vietnamese fled south. 2,000,000 more were stopped by the Viet Minh.
Nobody risked their lives to climb over barbed wire to get INTO Hungary Poland or Czechoslovakia during the Cold War.
Nobody climbed over the Berlin Wall to get INTO East Berlin.
Meanwhile China killed 50 million of its own people in the Great Leap Forward and then another couple of million in the Cultural Revolution and millions more sent off to “re-education camps”.
And then there is the Gulag Archipelago......
Etc. Etc.
The USA made many mistakes. Nobody denies that. But the world would be a dismal place without it.
The world is about to find out what its like when the USA walks away.
And its going to be ugly.
Remember this......
When Vietnam was partitioned 1954 900,000 Vietnamese fled south. 2,000,000 more were stopped by the Viet Minh.
Nobody risked their lives to climb over barbed wire to get INTO Hungary Poland or Czechoslovakia during the Cold War.
Nobody climbed over the Berlin Wall to get INTO East Berlin.
Meanwhile China killed 50 million of its own people in the Great Leap Forward and then another couple of million in the Cultural Revolution and millions more sent off to “re-education camps”.
And then there is the Gulag Archipelago......
Etc. Etc.
The USA made many mistakes. Nobody denies that. But the world would be a dismal place without it.
The world is about to find out what its like when the USA walks away.
And its going to be ugly.
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It’s scary to see the blinkered world view of some posters on this thread.
-Australia’s response to the Covid threat has been ‘inept’?
-It’s all part of some dastardly Chinese plot to take over the world?
-Bill Gates. WTF?
-China would be a great place to live!
Surely someone can work the Illuminati and/or the CIA into the narrative somehow.
Here’s a helpful hint for some of you: the world is chaotic, complex and rarely black and white - but if you see the same bad guys behind every event, perhaps you aren’t seeing very clearly.
Well actually no Justin....what scares me is the amount of unpaid overtime that Australians work...clearly some Australian business cannot function within their own employment contracts....to put that another..way they are not able to function without demanding free labour, it occurs to me then that business in Australia cannot survive without the exploitation of staff...Unions demans too high a wage?? Lower the rentals on your investment properties to meet the lower wages of the people that enrich you!
BTW, your beloved LNP Gummint has done a sterling job of screwing over the economy...and it has been a real thing to watch the economy slide into recession before the corona thing, 'cos the LNPsure have not been able to make the economy strong...
...oh wait,..it's all someoe elses fault right?
-Australia’s response to the Covid threat has been ‘inept’?
-It’s all part of some dastardly Chinese plot to take over the world?
-Bill Gates. WTF?
-China would be a great place to live!
Surely someone can work the Illuminati and/or the CIA into the narrative somehow.
Here’s a helpful hint for some of you: the world is chaotic, complex and rarely black and white - but if you see the same bad guys behind every event, perhaps you aren’t seeing very clearly.
Well actually no Justin....what scares me is the amount of unpaid overtime that Australians work...clearly some Australian business cannot function within their own employment contracts....to put that another..way they are not able to function without demanding free labour, it occurs to me then that business in Australia cannot survive without the exploitation of staff...Unions demans too high a wage?? Lower the rentals on your investment properties to meet the lower wages of the people that enrich you!
BTW, your beloved LNP Gummint has done a sterling job of screwing over the economy...and it has been a real thing to watch the economy slide into recession before the corona thing, 'cos the LNPsure have not been able to make the economy strong...
...oh wait,..it's all someoe elses fault right?
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quote "Well actually no Justin....what scares me is the amount of unpaid overtime that Australians work...clearly some Australian business cannot function within their own employment contracts....to put that another..way they are not able to function without demanding free labour, it occurs to me then that business in Australia cannot survive without the exploitation of staff...Unions demans too high a wage?? Lower the rentals on your investment properties to meet the lower wages of the people that enrich you!"
you should watch "American factory" on Netflix and see the comparison between a western society and China, rather depressing in short a glass factory owned by a Chinese mogul supported by the Chinese government trying to coexist with American work standards and the clash of cultures worth the 100 minute spiel
you should watch "American factory" on Netflix and see the comparison between a western society and China, rather depressing in short a glass factory owned by a Chinese mogul supported by the Chinese government trying to coexist with American work standards and the clash of cultures worth the 100 minute spiel