Private equity take-over for Virgin Australia?
A government source said whoever bought Virgin would have to abide by Australian pay and conditions for workers but it was envisaged that the airline's enterprise bargaining agreement would be renegotiated because the current EBA was "excessively expensive'
but it was envisaged that the airline's enterprise bargaining agreement would be renegotiated because the current EBA was "excessively expensive'
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Who will buy Virgin Australia?
believe there are 10+ interested parties wanting to buy VA
I would put Singapore Airlines at top of list along with Air New Zealand.
Even though they got their nose bloodied to the tune of around NZ$800 million with Ansett.
I would love an Australian entity to be successful.
Does anyone have any news on who are the interested parties?
InCruise.
I would put Singapore Airlines at top of list along with Air New Zealand.
Even though they got their nose bloodied to the tune of around NZ$800 million with Ansett.
I would love an Australian entity to be successful.
Does anyone have any news on who are the interested parties?
InCruise.
VA Annual revenue of $5.8bn with debt of $5bn.
QF annual revenue of $18bn. QF debt is similar at $5bn.
VA debt is going to be restructured during Administration, some will take a big haircut. While lessors hate to re negotiate rates, the Millionaire Factory Macquarie will be working some revised lease rates for their portion of the VA fleet.
With AA retiring the equivalent of the VA 737NG fleet (76 aircraft) NG values are heading south, there is bound to be even more spare NG and 320 capacity as some airlines fail. Macquarie won't want to be stuck with them without a customer, even though NG and 320 are the easiest to place.
Hypothetically and without wishing to make asinine assumptions, if VA can reduce debt to $2bn, it may have a good chance of survival. Its fare base (revenue base) is similar to QF, its costs must be similar, same aircraft, same fuel, same rent, same landing fees etc.
I flew with VA today, very good it was too. I really hope they come out of this well.
QF annual revenue of $18bn. QF debt is similar at $5bn.
VA debt is going to be restructured during Administration, some will take a big haircut. While lessors hate to re negotiate rates, the Millionaire Factory Macquarie will be working some revised lease rates for their portion of the VA fleet.
With AA retiring the equivalent of the VA 737NG fleet (76 aircraft) NG values are heading south, there is bound to be even more spare NG and 320 capacity as some airlines fail. Macquarie won't want to be stuck with them without a customer, even though NG and 320 are the easiest to place.
Hypothetically and without wishing to make asinine assumptions, if VA can reduce debt to $2bn, it may have a good chance of survival. Its fare base (revenue base) is similar to QF, its costs must be similar, same aircraft, same fuel, same rent, same landing fees etc.
I flew with VA today, very good it was too. I really hope they come out of this well.
So, Australia can't support two full service airlines? Eff off it can't. The ONLY reason it hasn't up to this point is the complete and utter lack of CEO 'talent.' Borghetti. A vengeful little yes man, brought up in the 'Qantas culture' of fear and retribution. Can't stand the thought of someone knowing more about the business than him. Joyce, if any of you are wondering about his management competence, he had a competitor on the ropes, he could have just shut his mouth, let this crisis pass and pummelled a weakened competitor through the recovery. Instead, he had to wave his small man, small dick syndrome and tell everybody how good he was because he's got 6 months extra cash in reserve. This, not knowing whether the crisis will last past his 6 months, complete moron. Do you wonder why you haven't heard from him in the last couple of weeks?? Do you reckon he's considered who his next competitor will be?? Because one thing is for sure, there will be one, and they may just kick his small man arse.
Do you reckon he's considered there may not be any international travel for 12 months and he'll be competing with a leaner domestic carrier while his 747's, A380's, A330's, B787's are mothballed at Alice Springs? Do you reckon he's considered that when international travel resumes he's competing with US airlines that have had 6 months of multi billion dollar handouts, not only loans, but handouts. Do you reckon he's considered that his 'new' domestic competitor won't have these international problems to deal with when international travel resumes? What an 'A grade' moron. If he was so damn good, do you reckon his Board wouldn't have told him to STFU?
Whether you think Australia can 'afford' two full service airlines or not, there WILL BE at least TWO, even if it's a procession of likely suitors. Do none of you study history? Australia is capitalist, which means there will not be ONE supplier.
Do you reckon he's considered there may not be any international travel for 12 months and he'll be competing with a leaner domestic carrier while his 747's, A380's, A330's, B787's are mothballed at Alice Springs? Do you reckon he's considered that when international travel resumes he's competing with US airlines that have had 6 months of multi billion dollar handouts, not only loans, but handouts. Do you reckon he's considered that his 'new' domestic competitor won't have these international problems to deal with when international travel resumes? What an 'A grade' moron. If he was so damn good, do you reckon his Board wouldn't have told him to STFU?
Whether you think Australia can 'afford' two full service airlines or not, there WILL BE at least TWO, even if it's a procession of likely suitors. Do none of you study history? Australia is capitalist, which means there will not be ONE supplier.
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Gee-sus Christ, what a bunch of wankers, both business commentators and the 'experts' on this site, what business qualifications have any of you got? Apart from Sunfish, he calls you lot wankas and you don't like it, but he's been there and YOU HAVEN'T. Have any of you been in business management positions in any airline around the world?
So, Australia can't support two full service airlines? Eff off it can't. The ONLY reason it hasn't up to this point is the complete and utter lack of CEO 'talent.' Borghetti. A vengeful little yes man, brought up in the 'Qantas culture' of fear and retribution. Can't stand the thought of someone knowing more about the business than him. Joyce, if any of you are wondering about his management competence, he had a competitor on the ropes, he could have just shut his mouth, let this crisis pass and pummelled a weakened competitor through the recovery. Instead, he had to wave his small man, small dick syndrome and tell everybody how good he was because he's got 6 months extra cash in reserve. This, not knowing whether the crisis will last past his 6 months, complete moron. Do you wonder why you haven't heard from him in the last couple of weeks?? Do you reckon he's considered who his next competitor will be?? Because one thing is for sure, there will be one, and they may just kick his small man arse.
Do you reckon he's considered there may not be any international travel for 12 months and he'll be competing with a leaner domestic carrier while his 747's, A380's, A330's, B787's are mothballed at Alice Springs? Do you reckon he's considered that when international travel resumes he's competing with US airlines that have had 6 months of multi billion dollar handouts, not only loans, but handouts. Do you reckon he's considered that his 'new' domestic competitor won't have these international problems to deal with when international travel resumes? What an 'A grade' moron. If he was so damn good, do you reckon his Board wouldn't have told him to STFU?
Whether you think Australia can 'afford' two full service airlines or not, there WILL BE at least TWO, even if it's a procession of likely suitors. Do none of you study history? Australia is capitalist, which means there will not be ONE supplier.
So, Australia can't support two full service airlines? Eff off it can't. The ONLY reason it hasn't up to this point is the complete and utter lack of CEO 'talent.' Borghetti. A vengeful little yes man, brought up in the 'Qantas culture' of fear and retribution. Can't stand the thought of someone knowing more about the business than him. Joyce, if any of you are wondering about his management competence, he had a competitor on the ropes, he could have just shut his mouth, let this crisis pass and pummelled a weakened competitor through the recovery. Instead, he had to wave his small man, small dick syndrome and tell everybody how good he was because he's got 6 months extra cash in reserve. This, not knowing whether the crisis will last past his 6 months, complete moron. Do you wonder why you haven't heard from him in the last couple of weeks?? Do you reckon he's considered who his next competitor will be?? Because one thing is for sure, there will be one, and they may just kick his small man arse.
Do you reckon he's considered there may not be any international travel for 12 months and he'll be competing with a leaner domestic carrier while his 747's, A380's, A330's, B787's are mothballed at Alice Springs? Do you reckon he's considered that when international travel resumes he's competing with US airlines that have had 6 months of multi billion dollar handouts, not only loans, but handouts. Do you reckon he's considered that his 'new' domestic competitor won't have these international problems to deal with when international travel resumes? What an 'A grade' moron. If he was so damn good, do you reckon his Board wouldn't have told him to STFU?
Whether you think Australia can 'afford' two full service airlines or not, there WILL BE at least TWO, even if it's a procession of likely suitors. Do none of you study history? Australia is capitalist, which means there will not be ONE supplier.
believe there are 10+ interested parties wanting to buy VA
I would put Singapore Airlines at top of list along with Air New Zealand.
Even though they got their nose bloodied to the tune of around NZ$800 million with Ansett.
I would love an Australian entity to be successful.
Does anyone have any news on who are the interested parties?
InCruise.
I would put Singapore Airlines at top of list along with Air New Zealand.
Even though they got their nose bloodied to the tune of around NZ$800 million with Ansett.
I would love an Australian entity to be successful.
Does anyone have any news on who are the interested parties?
InCruise.
im sure he’s got no axe to grind .....
If Air NZ try and buy VA, they will kiss goodbye to the $900M from the NZ Government. They have enough problems keeping themselves afloat without giving the lifejackets to a foreign operator with whom they fell out in spectacular fashion in October last year
Here is what I see as VA's biggest dilemma.
Redundancies.
Employees are first tier creditors, so any employee made redundant will need to be paid out before any other creditor.
The "Leaner, meaner" idea is certainly the only way forward from administration, but every redundant employee sacrificed to the "leaner" mantra is one more short-term liability.
I can't help but think a more likely route is to start with a fresh-or close to fresh- sheet, call quits on VA and liquidate.
It's why I made the comment that I think the Tiger AOC is a valuable asset- a turn-key airline with 8 737s, while 100 or so VA 737s sit idle, available as needed at what would be terrific terms.
Meanwhile Qantas is going to have scores of idle aircraft and stood-down employees for months/years, all negative on the balance sheets.
Virgin Blue had a similar opportunity and did a great job of capitalizing on it, someone getting hold of Tiger might have a similar window.
Redundancies.
Employees are first tier creditors, so any employee made redundant will need to be paid out before any other creditor.
The "Leaner, meaner" idea is certainly the only way forward from administration, but every redundant employee sacrificed to the "leaner" mantra is one more short-term liability.
I can't help but think a more likely route is to start with a fresh-or close to fresh- sheet, call quits on VA and liquidate.
It's why I made the comment that I think the Tiger AOC is a valuable asset- a turn-key airline with 8 737s, while 100 or so VA 737s sit idle, available as needed at what would be terrific terms.
Meanwhile Qantas is going to have scores of idle aircraft and stood-down employees for months/years, all negative on the balance sheets.
Virgin Blue had a similar opportunity and did a great job of capitalizing on it, someone getting hold of Tiger might have a similar window.
Here is what I see as VA's biggest dilemma.
Redundancies.
Employees are first tier creditors, so any employee made redundant will need to be paid out before any other creditor.
The "Leaner, meaner" idea is certainly the only way forward from administration, but every redundant employee sacrificed to the "leaner" mantra is one more short-term liability.
I can't help but think a more likely route is to start with a fresh-or close to fresh- sheet, call quits on VA and liquidate.
It's why I made the comment that I think the Tiger AOC is a valuable asset- a turn-key airline with 8 737s, while 100 or so VA 737s sit idle, available as needed at what would be terrific terms.
Meanwhile Qantas is going to have scores of idle aircraft and stood-down employees for months/years, all negative on the balance sheets.
Virgin Blue had a similar opportunity and did a great job of capitalizing on it, someone getting hold of Tiger might have a similar window.
Redundancies.
Employees are first tier creditors, so any employee made redundant will need to be paid out before any other creditor.
The "Leaner, meaner" idea is certainly the only way forward from administration, but every redundant employee sacrificed to the "leaner" mantra is one more short-term liability.
I can't help but think a more likely route is to start with a fresh-or close to fresh- sheet, call quits on VA and liquidate.
It's why I made the comment that I think the Tiger AOC is a valuable asset- a turn-key airline with 8 737s, while 100 or so VA 737s sit idle, available as needed at what would be terrific terms.
Meanwhile Qantas is going to have scores of idle aircraft and stood-down employees for months/years, all negative on the balance sheets.
Virgin Blue had a similar opportunity and did a great job of capitalizing on it, someone getting hold of Tiger might have a similar window.
1: making an employee redundant is expensive
2. Therefore it’s better to make every single employee redundant.
3.????????
4. Profit!!
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The silver lining
There has been a lot of comparison to Ansett in these threads, however there is one big difference; 9/11 had a temporary effect on domestic travel in Australia and there was a gap that could be filled as a result of Ansett going tits up. This time there is no gap plus you have QF and JQ dominating a decimated market. However Virgin Australia has one advantage in its favour over any potential startup airline; a foundation platform - systems, processes, training, certification, AOC, COA, an established ‘fan’ base of diehard customers and other tools that enable it to keep flying. These things take money and time to implement. Virgin already/still has this.
It is going to have to go back to grass roots, and it will be smaller, but it’s a start. Importantly it needs to ditch anything related to Branson. Why pay for that fools logo/brand/name any longer? Plus Branson has also become tainted goods. A billionaire not helping out his loyal VA staff out. His name is now ****e worldwide so why rename connected to it? If you have to start with a clean page, ditch the Necker Island muppet once and for all. Make the airline Australian, not foreign. Aussies love their own brand. That’s an advantage the Rat has. Give the rebirthed airline a name and logo Aussies will flock too. And the new VA needs an identity. Full service carrier or low cost carrier? There is no ‘in between’, which is really what got them sliding down the slippery slope of Administration. It just took awhile to get there.
It is going to have to go back to grass roots, and it will be smaller, but it’s a start. Importantly it needs to ditch anything related to Branson. Why pay for that fools logo/brand/name any longer? Plus Branson has also become tainted goods. A billionaire not helping out his loyal VA staff out. His name is now ****e worldwide so why rename connected to it? If you have to start with a clean page, ditch the Necker Island muppet once and for all. Make the airline Australian, not foreign. Aussies love their own brand. That’s an advantage the Rat has. Give the rebirthed airline a name and logo Aussies will flock too. And the new VA needs an identity. Full service carrier or low cost carrier? There is no ‘in between’, which is really what got them sliding down the slippery slope of Administration. It just took awhile to get there.
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There has been a lot of comparison to Ansett in these threads, however there is one big difference; 9/11 had a temporary effect on domestic travel in Australia and there was a gap that could be filled as a result of Ansett going tits up. This time there is no gap plus you have QF and JQ dominating a decimated market. However Virgin Australia has one advantage in its favour over any potential startup airline; a foundation platform - systems, processes, training, certification, AOC, COA, an established ‘fan’ base of diehard customers and other tools that enable it to keep flying. These things take money and time to implement. Virgin already/still has this.
It is going to have to go back to grass roots, and it will be smaller, but it’s a start. Importantly it needs to ditch anything related to Branson. Why pay for that fools logo/brand/name any longer? Plus Branson has also become tainted goods. A billionaire not helping out his loyal VA staff out. His name is now ****e worldwide so why rename connected to it? If you have to start with a clean page, ditch the Necker Island muppet once and for all. Make the airline Australian, not foreign. Aussies love their own brand. That’s an advantage the Rat has. Give the rebirthed airline a name and logo Aussies will flock too. And the new VA needs an identity. Full service carrier or low cost carrier? There is no ‘in between’, which is really what got them sliding down the slippery slope of Administration. It just took awhile to get there.
It is going to have to go back to grass roots, and it will be smaller, but it’s a start. Importantly it needs to ditch anything related to Branson. Why pay for that fools logo/brand/name any longer? Plus Branson has also become tainted goods. A billionaire not helping out his loyal VA staff out. His name is now ****e worldwide so why rename connected to it? If you have to start with a clean page, ditch the Necker Island muppet once and for all. Make the airline Australian, not foreign. Aussies love their own brand. That’s an advantage the Rat has. Give the rebirthed airline a name and logo Aussies will flock too. And the new VA needs an identity. Full service carrier or low cost carrier? There is no ‘in between’, which is really what got them sliding down the slippery slope of Administration. It just took awhile to get there.
Air nz is an in between airline. They seem to be doing alright, or were.
Wouldn't it be great if new airline was more Australian than Qantas.
The big questions
1. how many of current va staff will be invited to apply for new positions ?
2. what percentage of current pay will they be offered ?
3. will they be expected to do more for less ?
Many will not like doing same or more for less pay, but that's probably the reality. Hint at that in an interview & you probably won't get a job.
The first time the NZ government bailed out Air NZ was during the incompetent and ego-riddled Ansett 'adventure' after AN filed voluntary administration. Many egos in the-then NZ management at the time.
The current management of NZ doesn't seem that stupid to follow the mistakes of their predecessors which were involved in the Ansett and Virgin stakes.
spirit of Australia sounds like a good name.
Air nz is an in between airline. They seem to be doing alright, or were.
Wouldn't it be great if new airline was more Australian than Qantas.
The big questions
1. how many of current va staff will be invited to apply for new positions ?
2. what percentage of current pay will they be offered ?
3. will they be expected to do more for less ?
Many will not like doing same or more for less pay, but that's probably the reality. Hint at that in an interview & you probably won't get a job.
Air nz is an in between airline. They seem to be doing alright, or were.
Wouldn't it be great if new airline was more Australian than Qantas.
The big questions
1. how many of current va staff will be invited to apply for new positions ?
2. what percentage of current pay will they be offered ?
3. will they be expected to do more for less ?
Many will not like doing same or more for less pay, but that's probably the reality. Hint at that in an interview & you probably won't get a job.
It would be better than what center link would give you by a country mile that''s if you were eligible for anything..
Fly safe and play hard, when you can
Cheers Hoss
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Actually it would be a no brainer. I really believe most people would rather keep 70 or 80% of what they are earning at the moment rather than losing 100%.
It would be better than what center link would give you by a country mile that''s if you were eligible for anything..
Fly safe and play hard, when you can
Cheers Hoss
It would be better than what center link would give you by a country mile that''s if you were eligible for anything..
Fly safe and play hard, when you can
Cheers Hoss
There's a huge glut of airline personnel right now.