Seniority
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: New Zealand
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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Tough times call for tough methods. Every benevolent dictator understands that.
Few airlines in the current climate can afford strict implementation of last-in first-out and all the attendant re-training that would be involved with a major fleet reduction. A management acceding to that demand will only accelerate bankruptcy.
The compromise, for pilots at least, is job share. If operations are cut by two thirds, put everyone on a two day week for one third salary. That is actually a slight increase in productivity in that it is the equivalent to each full time pilot flying a six day week. This slight productivity increase is is roughly offset by the cost of keeping excess pilots in simulator check etc. To further offset the inefficiencies of keeping excess pilots in check (but only if not covered by productivity gains) annual leave would not accrue while job sharing.
Pilots at the top of the seniority list would not feel as much pain as those at the bottom - in fact most senior captains should survive on a third salary anyway. It may mean taking the kids out of private school and trading the his & hers matching Beemers for a Corolla. But hey, a car is a car and ordinary public schools are adequate for learning basic basket weaving (which is all our education system is fit for anyway).
Such a scheme would be far more tough on those at the bottom, but at least they would retain a part time job with 5 days a week available to stack those supermarket shelves - which is their cross to bear. If they do have an expensive car on the never-never, let the financier repossess it. A pushbike will provide all the exercise they once paid for at the gym.
How to deal with those not prepared to job share? Sack the mean spirited, selfish bastards.
Upside to this dastardly scheme is nearly all pilots could maintain proficiency for when some recovery occurs. Those who get too far out of recency will find it very difficult to get back in the game.
If all this sounds like I am not sympathetic, not so. Merely pointing out the way I would do it if I was that benevolent dictator. Be thankful I am not!
Few airlines in the current climate can afford strict implementation of last-in first-out and all the attendant re-training that would be involved with a major fleet reduction. A management acceding to that demand will only accelerate bankruptcy.
The compromise, for pilots at least, is job share. If operations are cut by two thirds, put everyone on a two day week for one third salary. That is actually a slight increase in productivity in that it is the equivalent to each full time pilot flying a six day week. This slight productivity increase is is roughly offset by the cost of keeping excess pilots in simulator check etc. To further offset the inefficiencies of keeping excess pilots in check (but only if not covered by productivity gains) annual leave would not accrue while job sharing.
Pilots at the top of the seniority list would not feel as much pain as those at the bottom - in fact most senior captains should survive on a third salary anyway. It may mean taking the kids out of private school and trading the his & hers matching Beemers for a Corolla. But hey, a car is a car and ordinary public schools are adequate for learning basic basket weaving (which is all our education system is fit for anyway).
Such a scheme would be far more tough on those at the bottom, but at least they would retain a part time job with 5 days a week available to stack those supermarket shelves - which is their cross to bear. If they do have an expensive car on the never-never, let the financier repossess it. A pushbike will provide all the exercise they once paid for at the gym.
How to deal with those not prepared to job share? Sack the mean spirited, selfish bastards.
Upside to this dastardly scheme is nearly all pilots could maintain proficiency for when some recovery occurs. Those who get too far out of recency will find it very difficult to get back in the game.
If all this sounds like I am not sympathetic, not so. Merely pointing out the way I would do it if I was that benevolent dictator. Be thankful I am not!
there are plenty of spoilt rich kids, with mummy’s and daddy’s that can and would support them through the years, so how about you take aim at all the people on here that have done ok in life for one reason or another, not just the older, more experienced
Join Date: Sep 2018
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I feel for all the pilots and associated staff that have lost their jobs, must be awful -(
When normality returns one day and flying ramps up the jobs will be there but they won't be there for everyone -(
stay focused guys/gals -
When normality returns one day and flying ramps up the jobs will be there but they won't be there for everyone -(
stay focused guys/gals -
How to deal with those not prepared to job share? Sack the mean spirited, selfish bastards.
Upside to this dastardly scheme is nearly all pilots could maintain proficiency for when some recovery occurs. Those who get too far out of recency will find it very difficult to get back in the game.
If all this sounds like I am not sympathetic, not so. Merely pointing out the way I would do it if I was that benevolent dictator. Be thankful I am not!
Upside to this dastardly scheme is nearly all pilots could maintain proficiency for when some recovery occurs. Those who get too far out of recency will find it very difficult to get back in the game.
If all this sounds like I am not sympathetic, not so. Merely pointing out the way I would do it if I was that benevolent dictator. Be thankful I am not!
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If you are not affected butt out.
This is way too serious for pretenders to try and find some vicarious pleasure in it.
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As said above. It only is relevant for Command upgrades.
During redundancy the company will do what it wants, as is testament to the way Tiger handled its redundancy for the A320 based on fleet well before the corona virus was relative.
There are many of my colleagues who swore black and blue that seniority is the only way the industry should be and are now lamenting the fact that they can’t get a direct entry command.
You can’t have your cake and.....
Seniority is archaic!
During redundancy the company will do what it wants, as is testament to the way Tiger handled its redundancy for the A320 based on fleet well before the corona virus was relative.
There are many of my colleagues who swore black and blue that seniority is the only way the industry should be and are now lamenting the fact that they can’t get a direct entry command.
You can’t have your cake and.....
Seniority is archaic!
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In the post Covid-19 environment there will more than likely be a significant reduction in airline pilot numbers. Thousands of aircrew are currently stood down without pay, no doubt pondering where their seat will be when the music stops. Ideally for those pilots lucky enough to have a company to go back to, the redeployment criteria should follow in order of seniority. At least across individual fleets.
In the past I have seen highly experienced, and more senior crew cast aside in the name of the “greater good”. At the same time I witnessed the ugly side of self preservation as one group turned on another.
The rules of the government’s Jobkeeper scheme regarding returning to duty specifies a reasonable test for employees brought back to work against those who are still stood down. The scope of this test isn’t meant to sort out a post lockdown employment structure, but it’s probably a good place to look for the first signs of any irregularities.
In the meantime talk to your Union. In the coming months there is going to be enormous pressure from industry to have greater “flexibility” in the rehiring process.
In the past I have seen highly experienced, and more senior crew cast aside in the name of the “greater good”. At the same time I witnessed the ugly side of self preservation as one group turned on another.
The rules of the government’s Jobkeeper scheme regarding returning to duty specifies a reasonable test for employees brought back to work against those who are still stood down. The scope of this test isn’t meant to sort out a post lockdown employment structure, but it’s probably a good place to look for the first signs of any irregularities.
In the meantime talk to your Union. In the coming months there is going to be enormous pressure from industry to have greater “flexibility” in the rehiring process.
The reality is that anyone 55+ outside of QF is not looking at huge a super balance. There are plenty of people who got wiped out at Ansett in their prime earning years only to be possibly done again in their 50's. I think a call for the over 55's to arbitrarily retire is probably a bit disingenuous given what they have been through in their career. I wouldn't have an issue with any of those folks if they wanted to hang on til 65+.
But sure if you have been in QF since you were 25 have lived through the biggest expansion period the airline has ever experienced and your biggest decision is whether to go a Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 490 over a the Beneteau Oceanis then I would agree it's time to move on.
But sure if you have been in QF since you were 25 have lived through the biggest expansion period the airline has ever experienced and your biggest decision is whether to go a Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 490 over a the Beneteau Oceanis then I would agree it's time to move on.
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Join Date: Apr 2020
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That is really rather cynical. I do not think that there are many "old boy captains" who would rub noses in the dirt like that - most of us (in those days) were gentlemen & generous in our encouragement of the youngsters. I am very conscious that I was extremely fortunate timing-wise but I also know many others who were not. Such is life - or luck!
'One day you'll be senior son." The greatest lie propagated by senior folk who - extraordinarily - actually believed the lie coming from their mouths.
Allegedly a number of senior folk were very quickly onto the Union demanding to immediately exercise their right to displace folks junior to them onto a jet (i.e. the one that will return to International flying first) that over the last last 30+years they would classify in a derogatory manner as "just a light twin." A pity they don't understand the Award.
Also a pity that during their 40 year career, probably 30 as a Captain, they didn't have the financial smarts to put themselves into a position to retire by their 60s. Considering that during that time the retirement age changed multiple times in their favour and gave them years of extra earnings.
And yet, when holding court with a literally captive audience, they will continually use the phrase 'snouts in the trough' when referring to Management.
Allegedly a number of senior folk were very quickly onto the Union demanding to immediately exercise their right to displace folks junior to them onto a jet (i.e. the one that will return to International flying first) that over the last last 30+years they would classify in a derogatory manner as "just a light twin." A pity they don't understand the Award.
Also a pity that during their 40 year career, probably 30 as a Captain, they didn't have the financial smarts to put themselves into a position to retire by their 60s. Considering that during that time the retirement age changed multiple times in their favour and gave them years of extra earnings.
And yet, when holding court with a literally captive audience, they will continually use the phrase 'snouts in the trough' when referring to Management.
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'one day you'll be senior son." the greatest lie propagated by senior folk who - extraordinarily - actually believed the lie coming from their mouths.
Allegedly a number of senior folk were very quickly onto the union demanding to immediately exercise their right to displace folks junior to them onto a jet (i.e. The one that will return to international flying first) that over the last last 30+years they would classify in a derogatory manner as "just a light twin." a pity they don't understand the award.
Also a pity that during their 40 year career, probably 30 as a captain, they didn't have the financial smarts to put themselves into a position to retire by their 60s. Considering that during that time the retirement age changed multiple times in their favour and gave them years of extra earnings.
And yet, when holding court with a literally captive audience, they will continually use the phrase 'snouts in the trough' when referring to management.
Allegedly a number of senior folk were very quickly onto the union demanding to immediately exercise their right to displace folks junior to them onto a jet (i.e. The one that will return to international flying first) that over the last last 30+years they would classify in a derogatory manner as "just a light twin." a pity they don't understand the award.
Also a pity that during their 40 year career, probably 30 as a captain, they didn't have the financial smarts to put themselves into a position to retire by their 60s. Considering that during that time the retirement age changed multiple times in their favour and gave them years of extra earnings.
And yet, when holding court with a literally captive audience, they will continually use the phrase 'snouts in the trough' when referring to management.
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But again, I ask, why should they? I’m by no means senior, and would benefit massively if many of the pilots you describe retire. But why is it that whenever there is a crisis, we immediately attack the senior blokes? It’s not their fault. Why should they be the ones to sacrifice something? I believe in this country we call it “the tall poppy syndrome”, and quite simply jealousy is a curse. Get over it. If the old guys want to retire, good on them, but stop trying to make them the bad guys. It’s not their fault.
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To the Captains in the 60 plus band who would have otherwise retired because their 5 million is super is only worth 3 million now, please still retire! You will still live comfortably. You don’t need to drive a Merc anymore- trade it in for the Hyundai, they make good cars.
You have had a good run (actually a great run over the last 30 plus years), let the guys and girls with mortgages and young kids have their turn. (Assuming there are any scraps left at the end of this).
Thanks
You have had a good run (actually a great run over the last 30 plus years), let the guys and girls with mortgages and young kids have their turn. (Assuming there are any scraps left at the end of this).
Thanks