Future of Jetstar
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Anything is possible. While Alan is at Qantas Gerry will always have a wing to hide beneath. Mates rates runs very strong with Alan. If Alan ever leaves, then Gerrys lifeline will be gone and he would eventually follow Alan to another airline or somebody like Jayne would pick him up. It’s one big club and none of you are invited!
I am sure Jayne will find someone else in ops to plant in Brisbane.
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Would anyone really want to work to the US airline system? Your pay and pension (superannuation) can be cut at anytime and the furlough provisions make our current standowns look like a short break. It doesn't really matter what they are getting paid lets look at their conditions under which they work. Personally I would not want to be facing a standown everytime the economy had a hiccup.
I had about AU$70k in a super with the 9% Virgin put in by the time I left. I have US$570k in my US 401k after 5 years with United. They put in 16% and I add 10%. The conditions weren't bad at Virgin but they’re far better at United.
Oh and when I go to training, it’s a pleasure. The complete opposite at Virgin. In fact, I’d never been screamed at in 15 years as a commercial pilot, in the sim, until I experienced Virgin. It was an eye opening experience.
Not a d!ck swinging exercise but you made a statement without knowing the facts.
Last edited by Kenny; 13th Jan 2021 at 05:10.
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Kenny you have obviously done very well by getting into United at the start of first airlines golden age of the 21st century. I would be interested in hearing what you have to say after the next 5 years. I have never operated in the US but there is plenty of information about the US system. I reckon this bloke had a good idea of a career in the US: "Since September 11 2001, the airline industry has been ailing, and as a result of cutbacks, I've lost 40 percent of my salary. Meanwhile, the US Airways pension I thought I could count on was terminated in 2004, and a government-backed replacement plan is a very weak substitute."
So make hay while the sunshines, as history shows that you will face lean times and many disruptions in your career with United.
So make hay while the sunshines, as history shows that you will face lean times and many disruptions in your career with United.
Lookleft,
This is a JQ thread and I don’t want to derail it but quickly....
I'm not under any illusion that it’s all rainbows and unicorns; I’m not a millennial and I just celebrated my 21st year in this wondrously glamorous career but your view, respectfully, is clouded by events of 20 years ago. It’s a view that many who haven’t worked here have and I do understand why.
US aviation was a very different animal in the years leading up to and post 9-11. The legacies had been mismanaged in an almost criminal way for years and 9-11 was the proverbial straw. I was here during that time and I’ve had many 2am chats somewhere over the Atlantic about it with guys that are are trying to make up for it, so I’m very aware of the pain that that time caused. Your quote is by a US airways pilot. A group that couldn’t have been more affected by what happened during that time and lost pretty much everything, not least pay and then seniority with a merger they tried to fight. For them it was the perfect storm of pain.
The legacies are now run by a very different breed and at least here, they do seem to have learnt from the past. Certainly from what I’ve seen and had the current sh!tstorm not happened, I think they would have continued on the path of constant improvement.
The question I responded to was “would you want to work in US aviation”. My reply was looking through the lenses of post 2010, pre Covid-19 and yet mindful of the events of 20 years ago. It obviously wasn’t the place to be before then because I went through the nightmare of moving thousands of miles and starting at a new airline on a different continent. Had it not changed, I wouldn’t have then gone through that same nightmare again but for me, it was more about the pension and that I could afford to live where I wanted to, rather than where I could simply afford to. It should be pointed out that pensions are no longer controlled by the airlines.
I've always approached a job here, with the mindset that it could all disappear in a heartbeat but the irony is, had I stayed in Oz I would be out of a job and probably not have a roof over my head. I don’t have a McMansion, while german my cars aren’t brand new and I’m a bit OCD with saving money for a rainy day, so at this point I could be out of work for two years and still pay all the bills. I am extremely lucky, I know that and I speak weekly to my mates at VA, so I’m acutely aware of what an absolute nightmare it is downunder at the moment.
That’s the professional viewpoint. From a personal point of view, of course I wish I could bring my kids up in Oz or Euroland but it would come at a huge financial cost that I don’t have the years for. Hopefully, we all make the best decisions we can, considering all the information we have. As you said, the next 5 years will be interesting.
Now back to JQ and apologies for the thread drift.
This is a JQ thread and I don’t want to derail it but quickly....
I'm not under any illusion that it’s all rainbows and unicorns; I’m not a millennial and I just celebrated my 21st year in this wondrously glamorous career but your view, respectfully, is clouded by events of 20 years ago. It’s a view that many who haven’t worked here have and I do understand why.
US aviation was a very different animal in the years leading up to and post 9-11. The legacies had been mismanaged in an almost criminal way for years and 9-11 was the proverbial straw. I was here during that time and I’ve had many 2am chats somewhere over the Atlantic about it with guys that are are trying to make up for it, so I’m very aware of the pain that that time caused. Your quote is by a US airways pilot. A group that couldn’t have been more affected by what happened during that time and lost pretty much everything, not least pay and then seniority with a merger they tried to fight. For them it was the perfect storm of pain.
The legacies are now run by a very different breed and at least here, they do seem to have learnt from the past. Certainly from what I’ve seen and had the current sh!tstorm not happened, I think they would have continued on the path of constant improvement.
The question I responded to was “would you want to work in US aviation”. My reply was looking through the lenses of post 2010, pre Covid-19 and yet mindful of the events of 20 years ago. It obviously wasn’t the place to be before then because I went through the nightmare of moving thousands of miles and starting at a new airline on a different continent. Had it not changed, I wouldn’t have then gone through that same nightmare again but for me, it was more about the pension and that I could afford to live where I wanted to, rather than where I could simply afford to. It should be pointed out that pensions are no longer controlled by the airlines.
I've always approached a job here, with the mindset that it could all disappear in a heartbeat but the irony is, had I stayed in Oz I would be out of a job and probably not have a roof over my head. I don’t have a McMansion, while german my cars aren’t brand new and I’m a bit OCD with saving money for a rainy day, so at this point I could be out of work for two years and still pay all the bills. I am extremely lucky, I know that and I speak weekly to my mates at VA, so I’m acutely aware of what an absolute nightmare it is downunder at the moment.
That’s the professional viewpoint. From a personal point of view, of course I wish I could bring my kids up in Oz or Euroland but it would come at a huge financial cost that I don’t have the years for. Hopefully, we all make the best decisions we can, considering all the information we have. As you said, the next 5 years will be interesting.
Now back to JQ and apologies for the thread drift.
Last edited by Kenny; 13th Jan 2021 at 17:45.
Thanks Kenny for giving us the context of your earlier post. I hope you continue to do well over there. BTW the quote I gave was from Chesney Sullenberger. Back to the topic Jetstar will always be a place that you work hard and get paid well by community standards. As for its future I think it will devolve to a NB fleet that serves domestic and short range international leisure destinations. At the moment in Oz the most secure place to be is a NB pilot within the QF Group.
Come back in 5 years!
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Jetstar's Boeing 787s fly into extended storage at Alice Springs: https://www.executivetraveller.com/n...-alice-springs
Yep, starting to have a genuine squeeze on 320 pilots, 787 starting back soon with some domestic runs, multiple cabin crew courses now running. Aircraft deliveries to restart soon as well, it will not be long before a few externals are required.
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The issue being that 787 pilots are mostly still stood down without pay. Management excepted of course.
Recruiting outside the current pilot group while this is the case will certainly be a test for the unions. Noting that every 787 pilot except for SOs is type rated on the 320.
Shades of the late 80s.
MCD.
Recruiting outside the current pilot group while this is the case will certainly be a test for the unions. Noting that every 787 pilot except for SOs is type rated on the 320.
Shades of the late 80s.
MCD.
With the majority of 787 guys stood down, while hard for them, but , do they think they’re entitled to be trained on the 320 (most will need full type ratings again) then in12months time be entitled to go back to the 787 because their seniority allows it.
If JQ were to train them, I think it would only be fair on the company given the enormity of cost in training they agree it’s a one way ticket back to 320 or pay full cost of the 320 training and being re trained on 787
If JQ were to train them, I think it would only be fair on the company given the enormity of cost in training they agree it’s a one way ticket back to 320 or pay full cost of the 320 training and being re trained on 787
A bit of PIA should help get the ball rolling with the EA Negotiation.
Remember that bottle of milk down the shops will cost you an extra 2.5% this year but your pay will stay the same...
Remember that bottle of milk down the shops will cost you an extra 2.5% this year but your pay will stay the same...
With the majority of 787 guys stood down, while hard for them, but , do they think they’re entitled to be trained on the 320 (most will need full type ratings again) then in12months time be entitled to go back to the 787 because their seniority allows it.
If JQ were to train them, I think it would only be fair on the company given the enormity of cost in training they agree it’s a one way ticket back to 320 or pay full cost of the 320 training and being re trained on 787
If JQ were to train them, I think it would only be fair on the company given the enormity of cost in training they agree it’s a one way ticket back to 320 or pay full cost of the 320 training and being re trained on 787
From the perspective of the company, it would be cheaper to down train senior pilots and retrench last on. The costs of redundancy for long serving employees is high.
The cannibalism being displayed in the Australian aviation industrial landscape is pitiful. It is like watching Game of Thrones.
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SHVC I think you may have illustrated perfectly in your post the mindset that has plagued this industry for decades now.
I cant remember anyone suggesting that " Entitlement " was a factor. To even suggest that now really speaks as to the quality of your character.
Not a good look at all, but a sadly relevant window to the bigger problems faced by many innocent parties left stranded on Stand down Island.
People simply trying to put food on the table.
MCD
I cant remember anyone suggesting that " Entitlement " was a factor. To even suggest that now really speaks as to the quality of your character.
Not a good look at all, but a sadly relevant window to the bigger problems faced by many innocent parties left stranded on Stand down Island.
People simply trying to put food on the table.
MCD
Last edited by ManillaChillaDilla; 27th Mar 2021 at 05:24. Reason: Rethoght post
My point was, do the 78 crew think the company should be paying to down train from 78 to 320. Then when the 78 starts back up be expected to go back to the 78 at the companys expense?! I don’t believe the company should be liable for these cost.
Covid is a **** sandwich for everyone I know I’ve been dealt a $hit sandwich also.
Stand down Vs Redundant I know which I’d prefer, I’m putting food on the table via other means now.
Covid is a **** sandwich for everyone I know I’ve been dealt a $hit sandwich also.
Stand down Vs Redundant I know which I’d prefer, I’m putting food on the table via other means now.
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1/4 of the 78 Fleet was put up ‘EOI’ For Sale pre COVID. Whilst that might not be needed while we cycle through some heavy local demand in the short term, that day will probably return again in the medium to long term.
I would be getting off that fleet type while the opportunity is there. For those facing retirement this decade in the left seat on the big girl, might as well just sit still.
I would be getting off that fleet type while the opportunity is there. For those facing retirement this decade in the left seat on the big girl, might as well just sit still.
From the perspective of the company, it would be cheaper to down train senior pilots and retrench last on.
If senior pilots are down trained, then so is everyone else who is displaced by these senior pilots taking their position.
100 senior wide body pilots being down trained and displacing 100 narrow body pilots means a total of 200 pilots to train.
Plus what happens when the wide body positions return?
These senior pilots will now need to be retrained to fly the wide body again, plus other pilots will need to be retrained to fill the vacated positions on the narrow body.