Air NZ pilot redundancies
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I think you'd find that "Reserved Seniority Spot" only exists while working for a Koru turbo prop operation. The minute you leave the Koru that spot no longer exists. Therefore no extra risk to the external operator.
Someone better placed than I can confirm or deny what I have said.
Someone better placed than I can confirm or deny what I have said.
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I think you'd find that "Reserved Seniority Spot" only exists while working for a Koru turbo prop operation. The minute you leave the Koru that spot no longer exists. Therefore no extra risk to the external operator.
Someone better placed than I can confirm or deny what I have said.
Someone better placed than I can confirm or deny what I have said.
It’s proposed that no one will be removed from the list. Just annotated as redundant/furloughed.
It is unlikely that Qantas Group will return to its former size for a while yet, and when it does they will have local pilots displaced from Tiger and a smaller Virgin (if it survives) to choose from first, plus plenty of applicants from lesser regionals around the country.
I think you'd find that "Reserved Seniority Spot" only exists while working for a Koru turbo prop operation. The minute you leave the Koru that spot no longer exists. Therefore no extra risk to the external operator.
Someone better placed than I can confirm or deny what I have said.
Someone better placed than I can confirm or deny what I have said.
The goal was to allow Pilots to decide between a Redundancy Payout or retaining service benefits without giving one a distinct advantage over the other in terms of re-employment. Last off first on.
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All Pilots who are made Redundant or take Furlough will retain a Seniority number for re-employment. A Furlough Pilot still holds an employment agreement so their name remains on the list with no Rank. A Redundant Pilot will have their seniority number annotated as "Reserved for XYZ".
The goal was to allow Pilots to decide between a Redundancy Payout or retaining service benefits without giving one a distinct advantage over the other in terms of re-employment. Last off first on.
The goal was to allow Pilots to decide between a Redundancy Payout or retaining service benefits without giving one a distinct advantage over the other in terms of re-employment. Last off first on.
I guess the ex Air NZ pilot if they really wanted the other job could resign and thus relinquish any claim to a seniority spot. After all for some pilots there will be better opportunities outside of the Koru, depending on personal circumstances (age, family, location etc), and the progression opportunities etc at the new employer relative to the Koru job.
Ok, Understand where you're coming from now. Agreed.
I guess the ex Air NZ pilot if they really wanted the other job could resign and thus relinquish any claim to a seniority spot. After all for some pilots there will be better opportunities outside of the Koru, depending on personal circumstances (age, family, location etc), and the progression opportunities etc at the new employer relative to the Koru job.
I guess the ex Air NZ pilot if they really wanted the other job could resign and thus relinquish any claim to a seniority spot. After all for some pilots there will be better opportunities outside of the Koru, depending on personal circumstances (age, family, location etc), and the progression opportunities etc at the new employer relative to the Koru job.
With such little work on at the moment, it's hard to gauge what the greater community feeling towards it is. Certainly mixed opinions from those I've spoken to about it, most of us are sympathetic to both parties recognizing the problem without a solution. Time will tell I suppose.
Unfortunately, Tag & Release has caused a lot of problems for those affected and I've got one cheek firmly planted on each side of the fence. Regional Pilots have been given a raw deal in recent years due to the simultaneous expansion of both Jet & Prop Fleets, but Air NZ have overcompensated by dumping a whole lot of them onto our Seniority list en-masse. To make matters worse, it's not only the RNZAF/External Pilots getting bitten by this, former Regional Pilots, even those who were on Tag & Release are facing the same problem as they can't go back.
Air NZ have told us they plan to be at least 30% smaller for the foreseeable future. 387 Redundancies is based on that longer term view, ~280 are active Jet Pilots the rest are Regional T&R (Last on First off means T&R Pilots need to come off the list to make those senior to them redundant). ALPA have told us Retirements are ~200 over the next 5 years. If Air NZ only re-hire to cover Retirements, that could be a long wait for our most Junior Colleagues. I can sympathise with their position that they should be 280 in-line to come back and not 387 although not sure I entirely agree with it.
It would be a very courageous HR Manager or CEO who allowed recruitment of pilots from across the ditch while several hundred qualified locals remained on the dole at home.
Trans Tasman agreements cut both ways, but neither side will risk too much taxpayer or government scrutiny while simultaneously seeking financial assistance.
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The majority if not all of the T&R pilots will stay in their current positions rather than jumping onto the bottom of a new seniority list when re hiring starts again in case something similar happens again, the pilots below the T&R pilots will therefore get back on the the jets before the T&R pilots.
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The majority if not all of the T&R pilots will stay in their current positions rather than jumping onto the bottom of a new seniority list when re hiring starts again in case something similar happens again, the pilots below the T&R pilots will therefore get back on the the jets before the T&R pilots.
It could be five years down the track.
I like the idea one American carrier had. they offered the pilots over 62 roughly half pay till retirement date as a redundancy but they are not allowed to work, this means a junior pilot can be kept on and the cost is the same, except it saves massively on retraining costs.
A large number of T&R pilots have already been on the jet seniority list for one and a half years or more without taking a position. I think a fair portion have no intention of taking one ever.
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Well, this is speculation only, I don’t know any of them, but the T&R pilots who have been on the jet list the longest will be the most senior on the regional list. So if they’ve been in the Links for a long time, why weren’t they already flying the jets? Either they don’t want to, or they’ve tried and failed the interview process back before T&R was introduced. Those who didn’t want to before, aren’t going to want to now or any time in the future. Those who previously failed the interview might be a bit gun shy about having a go at the jet seeing as they lose all of their rights to a Link job; if they fail the jet training they are out, no going back, at least not back to their Dash 8 or ATR command.
T&R Pilots, unlike external hires, effectively get to choose between Long Haul SO (777 / 787) or A320 FO. The Company will offer them the first course that comes up (usually A320) and they were allowed to decline and wait for their preference. If however they turned down the second offer they were to be removed from the Jet Seniority list. Whilst not expressly written anywhere, they cannot sit in the Regionals and wait for the LHS of a Jet, nor would they meet the Requirements for a Command anyway.
Unfortunately, it's recently come to light that a few have been abusing the system with the help of their managers who were "incorrectly not applying the 2 offers rule". Along with "being unable to release certain Pilots".
Any Pilot sitting on T&R who has no intention of taking a Job should be removed. All they're doing is blocking their Junior Colleagues who actually do want it.
Unfortunately, it's recently come to light that a few have been abusing the system with the help of their managers who were "incorrectly not applying the 2 offers rule". Along with "being unable to release certain Pilots".
Any Pilot sitting on T&R who has no intention of taking a Job should be removed. All they're doing is blocking their Junior Colleagues who actually do want it.
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How would you feel if you rocked up to Air NZ and there were 100 spots reserved above you, yet you were told nothing about this? That's an easy 5 years of seniority that you lost because someone neglected to mention that to you.
Wait his turn? By that logic the most senior T&R pilot has been waiting 18 years to get into Air NZ? Now that is some Group Loyalty™
Wait his turn? By that logic the most senior T&R pilot has been waiting 18 years to get into Air NZ? Now that is some Group Loyalty™
My advice to him: Sorry princess, thats life
edit: this character is also wanting to change the terms of an agreement. That’s changing the landscape for those affected which could be put in the same basket as “no one told me this was going to happen”.
Last edited by Flash Blackman; 19th Apr 2020 at 04:32.
