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Air NZ pilot redundancies

Old 11th Apr 2020, 09:15
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=Lapon;10746314]Correct, but thats how the agreement is written.


Irrespective of what is written into the agreement, I'm not sure there is enough goodwill among the taxpaying public at large, many of whom a doing it very hard right now, to subsidise a lifestyle to which a senior WB pilot has come to expect.
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Old 11th Apr 2020, 10:33
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Irrespective of what is written into the agreement, I'm not sure there is enough goodwill among the taxpaying public at large
That may be true, however the contract overrides public sentiment.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 02:33
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Originally Posted by Lapon View Post
25 years you say? That technology has been avaliable for decades, it's the appetite for it that has and will lack.
Spoken like a flight engineer. The first tests of auto take off at Airbus were in 2020, it’s downhill from here. Every facet of transportation is getting automated. Line haul automated trucks are less than a decade away. The cost savings of halving your pilot numbers are huge. The whole idea that airlines will want to hold onto pilots is much like the idea they wanted to hold onto flight engineers.
Ain’t going to happen, watch the current fight in the trucking industry if you want to know how this will all play out.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 02:34
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Originally Posted by Lapon View Post
25 years you say? That technology has been avaliable for decades, it's the appetite for it that has and will lack.
Spoken like a flight engineer. The first tests of auto take off at Airbus were in 2020, it’s downhill from here. Every facet of transportation is getting automated. Line haul automated trucks are less than a decade away. The cost savings of halving your pilot numbers are huge. The whole idea that airlines will want to hold onto pilots is much like the idea they wanted to hold onto flight engineers.
Ain’t going to happen, watch the current fight in the trucking industry if you want to know how this will all play out.
Apologies for thread drift.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 04:25
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lapon View Post
That may be true, however the contract overrides public sentiment.
Should the business burn all their cash and require full Govt rescuing/ownership then the public sentiment will exert a lot more influence.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 04:51
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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The cost savings of halving your pilot numbers are huge.
Except in the big sceme of things they're not. And then there are the non financial considerations which will be the greatest hurdle anyway.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 04:58
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Should the business burn all their cash and require full Govt rescuing/ownership then the public sentiment will exert a lot more influence.
If the company was to collapse it is all academic anyway, the best they can do for now is negotiate some variations with the pilot group.
I dont think for a second the company will merely be able to put the entire problem in the too hard or too expensive basket and just do as they please.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 09:31
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The first tests of auto take off at Airbus were in 2020, it’s downhill from here. Every facet of transportation is getting automated. Line haul automated trucks are less than a decade away. The cost savings of halving your pilot numbers are huge...
The easiest form of transport to automate is trains. How many driver-less trains with passengers operate in Australia, or the US or Europe? Next easiest is shipping. Heck they already "need" pilots to bring them into harbour after the ocean crossing. When I see mostly driverless trains and a few automatic ships, then I will know that single pilot aircraft are coming, because if you NEED one pilot then you NEED a second one just in case.
By the way, crew costs are between 10-15% of aircraft running cost. That is ALL crew. maybe the cabin crew will be first to go? No cabin attendants on trains or buses. Find your own exit.

When in 2020 did these tests occur?
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 10:48
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Originally Posted by Chris2303 View Post
Politically unacceptable with the Government owning 52% of the airline.
I think there will be a debate soon about how long Air New Zealand should be kept on life support.
As an airline it has only ever existed courtesy of protectionist policies (until Richard Prebble deregulated the industry) and taxpayer funding,
It has been baled out twice now in the last twenty years.
Most of the people I know who have traveled to Britain and Europe in the last five years have cast the often referred to 'pride' and 'sentiment' in our national carrier aside and opted for better and cheaper options travelling west with one of the Asian or Middle Eastern carriers.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 20:36
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/ind...l-to-its-knees

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Old 12th Apr 2020, 22:03
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Uhh they’ve trotted out “aviation consultant” Irene King About as insightful as Trump vs Viruses.
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 00:13
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KiwiAvi8er View Post
Uhh they’ve trotted out “aviation consultant” Irene King About as insightful as Trump vs Viruses.
That's 'Aviation Consultant and Grey Lynn Florist' Irene King I'll have you know
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 00:28
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OPINION: Qantas and Air New Zealand are setting very different paths. Time will tell who was right.
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 00:31
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mangatete View Post
OPINION: Qantas and Air New Zealand are setting very different paths. Time will tell who was right.
Perhaps legislation differences and liquidity have allowed QF to kick the can down the road to wait and see how the dust settles first, before making structural decisions. The paths taken may well turn out to be very similar.
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 02:19
  #95 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Pickuptruck View Post
Spoken like a flight engineer. The first tests of auto take off at Airbus were in 2020, it’s downhill from here. Every facet of transportation is getting automated. Line haul automated trucks are less than a decade away. The cost savings of halving your pilot numbers are huge. The whole idea that airlines will want to hold onto pilots is much like the idea they wanted to hold onto flight engineers.
Ain’t going to happen, watch the current fight in the trucking industry if you want to know how this will all play out.
Apologies for thread drift.
The truck thing exists, but authorities won't let it happen without bodies in the cab. Scania has a system were up to 10 truck and trailer units are connected via some network. Truck one drives and the others follow, literally a few meters apart. Travelling in a convoy of 10 saves 10% fuel per truck, so 10 trucks and one practically goes for free. They are allowed to operate the system on German Autobahns, but only at night.
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 02:21
  #96 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by mangatete View Post
OPINION: Qantas and Air New Zealand are setting very different paths. Time will tell who was right.
Local media are talking up a Trans-Tasman travel bubble, watch this space
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 02:31
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Local media are talking up a Trans-Tasman travel bubble, watch this space
Not as silly as it might sound. If the COVID thing is proved to be contained at an acceptable level in both countries (and it's rapidly approaching that point), then that sounds like a great idea.

At least it would get some traffic and employment happening again.
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 04:39
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Anti Skid On View Post
Local media are talking up a Trans-Tasman travel bubble, watch this space
Would be nice, but Jacinda shut the idea down today and said borders will be closed indefinitely to non-residents or who aren’t citizens. She also stated herself and Morrison haven’t talked or aren’t considering the idea at the moment.
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 06:48
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Originally Posted by KiwiAvi8er View Post
Uhh they’ve trotted out “aviation consultant” Irene King About as insightful as Trump vs Viruses.
Congratulations: You passed the test.

Denigrate anybody who doesn't have LHS time, and totally ignore the opinions expressed. And the article wasn't all about Irene King either, others put their take on the AIr NZ situation.

My personal feeling is that if Air NZ is to become a domestic airline it should be renamed NAC and the airplanes painted orange with the godwit on the tail
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 09:27
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chris2303 View Post
My personal feeling is that if Air NZ is to become a domestic airline it should be renamed NAC and the airplanes painted orange with the godwit on the tail
Hard to find humor in all this, but this comment did bring a smile to my face.

Good luck to everyone.
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