Air NZ pilot redundancies

[MCDU2]

Originally Posted by dctPub

How would you feel if you rocked up to Air NZ and there were 100 spots reserved above you, yet you were told nothing about this? That's an easy 5 years of seniority that you lost because someone neglected to mention that to you.

Wait his turn? By that logic the most senior T&R pilot has been waiting 18 years to get into Air NZ? Now that is some Group Loyalty™

It's pretty standard in a unionised airline with seniority agreements. My European airline has the same. We also have the ability to avail of special leave at present. Any length of time will be considered by our employer. China is planning to rehire contract pilots in the next few months so I know some of my colleagues are seriously looking to avail of this. On their return they will slot back into the respective fleet/rank based on seniority as if they had stayed.

[ElZilcho]

I don't think it's exclusively a Seniority problem. There was a group of RNZAF Pilot who were told Tag & Release would not effect them... actually I believe all those interviewed during a certain window were told Tag & Release would be coming into effect on XYZ Date so anyone starting before that date would be ahead of them. Unfortunately that's not what happened.

[Lucifer786]

I personally know a pilot who’s been a colleague of mine for years now and who was categorically informed that Tag n Release would be coming into force post his interview process.
However we now sadly know that wasn’t true.

[KiwiAvi8er]

Originally Posted by Lucifer786

I personally know a pilot who’s been a colleague of mine for years now and who was categorically informed that Tag n Release would be coming into force post his interview process.
However we now sadly know that wasn’t true.

Does he have that in writing? I have no doubt that’s true, but that’s HR saying whatever it takes to get someone in the door. Once he joins, job done from their perspective.

I have friends who were on the hold-file for jets being told by HR “we should be able to get you on a ground course shortly” whilst internal emails sent to company staff stated that all jet recruiting would be from props for the foreseeable future. One hand not talking to the other.

[here_we_go_again]

Originally Posted by ElZilcho

I don't think it's exclusively a Seniority problem. There was a group of RNZAF Pilot who were told Tag & Release would not effect them... actually I believe all those interviewed during a certain window were told Tag & Release would be coming into effect on XYZ Date so anyone starting before that date would be ahead of them. Unfortunately that's not what happened.

That's not quite what HR told us. To quote from their email.

"The Career Pathways group understands that applicants to Air New Zealand would like to understand any potential impact on them. The group has confirmed that anyone who attends the Air New Zealand Jet Recruitment Assessment Centre in July, August and September 2018, is successful and accepts a position offered, will be added to the Jet Seniority List prior to the addition of the Regional Seniority List."

The bolding is mine.

As we know, the RSL DID NOT ever get added to the bottom of the Jet list. Sure, some link pilots did join under their programme but is that really that much of an issue? Are we actually suggesting that, for example, in the ol' Us of A, people get prissy because a class for 25 started half a month before them and "I didn't know about that" and "I'm lower down the list now and that's unfair."

Let's talk facts, not supposition.

[AerocatS2A]

Yeah, that's what I was told. I don't think I got an email though. I think some people might have misunderstood the message.

[AerocatS2A]

Originally Posted by here_we_go_again

Are we actually suggesting that, for example, in the ol' Us of A, people get prissy because a class for 25 started half a month before them and "I didn't know about that" and "I'm lower down the list now and that's unfair."

Let's talk facts, not supposition.

There were a group who were on the published seniority list and then it was amended with a bunch of T&R names added above them. As the union says, the seniority list is sacrosanct, except when it's not.

[ka_pai]

Originally Posted by mattyj

The AirNZ jet seniority list IS date of joining!? The difference since the middle of 2018 is that if you’re an external hire - for every 3 of you the company hires they have to attach the same joining date to 7 regional pilots notionally on LWOP awaiting release from the links. This was to address the unfairness of being overlooked because they couldn’t be spared off of the link fleet. The trouble arises when you have a big group hired on the same start date, you arrange the list according to Pilot total time for that start date. So some guys have been with the jet fleet for nearly 2 years and still have 30 or 40 link pilots ahead of them on the seniority list who have never started. People who were involved in the pathways development warned the designers that the system was a pit of vipers in the case of mass redundancy on multiple occasions but they were ignored.

to be more specific it was the Fed guys that warned the company that Pathways was flawed and brought up the problem faced if there was mass downtraining. This fell on deaf ears. They were warned.

[Corkey McFuz]

I heard a whole lot of regional pilots have been made redundant also. Anyone able to share the details on that ?

[KiwiAvi8er]

Originally Posted by Corkey McFuz

I heard a whole lot of regional pilots have been made redundant also. Anyone able to share the details on that ?

100 is the initial number

[Flash Blackman]

Originally Posted by KiwiAvi8er

100 is the initial number

pretty similar percentages to the jet guys... around 20%

[viatheairporthold]

Initially the company wanted 150 but it seems the union got it down to 100

[Flash Blackman]

Originally Posted by dctPub

Not really.
387/1213 = 32%
100/621 = 16%

I took the tag and release guys out of my calc to avoid counting twice.

[Flash Blackman]

Originally Posted by dctPub

Yea but why? They are air nz employees and are getting made redundant, getting a pay out etc.

Because those were the figures I was interested in. The chaps on the RSL arent getting any pay out. They are on LWOP from the jet fleet having never done any jet training so I dont count them in my calculations. Those guys stay with the regional fleet on commands so I have counted them in my regional numbers. Why would they get a redundancy pay out from the jet fleet and then remain employed on the regional fleet? Doesnt make sense and has also been clarified by the company as something that will not happen.

[ka_pai]

Originally Posted by KiwiAvi8er

100 is the initial number

Of course there is the option to save 40 pilots jobs by doing what the jet fleet are voting on right now with a 14% pay reduction for 9 months. ALPA regional reps don’t want to support this, much to a lot of pilots disgust (especially those that could be saved). I heard the feds support this action and may vote on it anyway even though the arrogance of the ALPA reps said the feds will fall into line and follow their lead. Seems pretty clear who values pilots jobs and who doesn’t.

[Flash Blackman]

Because the union and company are putting an MOU together. It does not make sense to give a regional pilot a payout for a position they havent started and while they still work within the group, CA aside. thats one thing both the company and union have agreed on from what I'm told.

[Massey058]

Originally Posted by ka_pai

Of course there is the option to save 40 pilots jobs by doing what the jet fleet are voting on right now with a 14% pay reduction for 9 months. ALPA regional reps don’t want to support this, much to a lot of pilots disgust (especially those that could be saved). I heard the feds support this action and may vote on it anyway even though the arrogance of the ALPA reps said the feds will fall into line and follow their lead. Seems pretty clear who values pilots jobs and who doesn’t.

I hadn't heard this and very keen to disucss. I can't understand why when people have genuine concerns they don't use the multitude of forums that aren't public and available to us.

The last update mentioned at the end they continue to work on useful options. But in the meantime if people are concerned why not flag some issues up for discussion in a more secure environment?

[Flash Blackman]

Originally Posted by go123

100 is not the initial number, we were given false information. It was 155 pilots as per yesterday’s live stream video

what live stream was that?

[KiwiAvi8er]

Originally Posted by ka_pai

Of course there is the option to save 40 pilots jobs by doing what the jet fleet are voting on right now with a 14% pay reduction for 9 months. ALPA regional reps don’t want to support this, much to a lot of pilots disgust (especially those that could be saved). I heard the feds support this action and may vote on it anyway even though the arrogance of the ALPA reps said the feds will fall into line and follow their lead. Seems pretty clear who values pilots jobs and who doesn’t.

The feds. Didn’t they vote to give themselves a 25% pay cut about a week in to this and once they saw all the work ALPA did to save jobs, with the 14% reduction on a flexi scheme, thought that looks good we’ll take that.

The issue I see is these surplus numbers are for April next year. 100 pilot excess. Let’s say everyone does a flexi scheme and shaves 14% off for 9 months. We get to April and the model is bang on, still 40 pilots in excess (if that’s how many jobs are saved) then how long does the group sacrifice the conditions? Realistically there are going to multiple waves of job cuts here.

[go123]

Originally Posted by Flash Blackman

what live stream was that?

Yesterday we had a livestream with the company. I thought everyone was invited but found out later it was only for the 100 affected. We were told during it that the number will 100 minus a few with VE and the union has chosen not to save 40 jobs by taking a 14% FFA