Government Loan to Virgin Australia
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Last edited by Synergies; 14th Apr 2020 at 12:11. Reason: Tidying up.
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It's beyond sad that it has come to this. How can you f*** things up so badly to not make money in a market that has one other competitor. Like seriously. I feel for the employees of Virgin. I really do.
I’m so annoyed my friends in VA are caught up in this. I really am. Rips me up.
I’m so annoyed that the (foreign) investors of VA and the board have got it to this point. And aren’t backing it up.
But why is PS pleading to the government to bail them out for $1.4 billion when they owe almost $5 billion in debt? I’m sorry... what an effing mess. It may not be his fault as such, but I’m sorry, my tax paying dollars don’t deserve to go to a foreign owned outfit that can’t get their stuff in order. I challenge anyone to explain to me why MY and everyone else’s taxes should bail an individual company out? And forget the two airlines needed to keep the air fair, whilst they’ve been here 20 years and are in this situation! But you haven’t paid much in the way of Aussie tax I’m afraid, and were quick to take advantage of the Ansett collapse many years ago.
Shut the doors. And another door will open. History has shown this with VA after Ansett. Hopefully an outfit can emerge that’s strategic enough, and not stupid like VA has been, and be a proper 2nd airline in Australia? Alliance has been a quiet achiever for 20 years and maybe they are the ones to step up for Australia.
I’m so annoyed that the (foreign) investors of VA and the board have got it to this point. And aren’t backing it up.
But why is PS pleading to the government to bail them out for $1.4 billion when they owe almost $5 billion in debt? I’m sorry... what an effing mess. It may not be his fault as such, but I’m sorry, my tax paying dollars don’t deserve to go to a foreign owned outfit that can’t get their stuff in order. I challenge anyone to explain to me why MY and everyone else’s taxes should bail an individual company out? And forget the two airlines needed to keep the air fair, whilst they’ve been here 20 years and are in this situation! But you haven’t paid much in the way of Aussie tax I’m afraid, and were quick to take advantage of the Ansett collapse many years ago.
Shut the doors. And another door will open. History has shown this with VA after Ansett. Hopefully an outfit can emerge that’s strategic enough, and not stupid like VA has been, and be a proper 2nd airline in Australia? Alliance has been a quiet achiever for 20 years and maybe they are the ones to step up for Australia.
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I’d be interested in your hypothetical of how that would help. Is that a bit like getting rid of Ford and Holden? All domestic foreign owned? Good for Australia?
MEL-SYD: choose between Air Asia and Scoot. Both mobs paid $2/hr, but cheap flights. Sunny reckon’s it’s good for Australia.
MEL-SYD: choose between Air Asia and Scoot. Both mobs paid $2/hr, but cheap flights. Sunny reckon’s it’s good for Australia.
Last edited by Derfred; 14th Apr 2020 at 18:15.
Sunny reckon’s it’s good for Australia.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
Oh if Sunny, with more posts than a dingo fence says it, it must be true. An expert on all subjects.
He the Oracle has spoken!
[QUOTE]
Oh if Sunny, with more posts than a dingo fence says it, it must be true. An expert on all subjects.
He the Oracle has spoken!
It may come as a surprise to some, but the Australian people do not just exist to be fleeced of exorbitant amounts of money to keep Qantas and its staff and shareholders in the style to which they have become accustomed.
If Virgin goes under than a rampant Qantas will screw the Australian captive customers for all they are worth......again! I can see that this is TBM's wet dream. A Qantas monopoly again, but this time not just International, domestic as well! Lets see; $1000 - Melbourne Sydney, $2000 - Melbourne Brisbane, $5000 to Perth!
Competitively priced air travel is essential to Australias economy, it is axiomatic that Qantas won't provide it without competition. If there is no competition then we need to open the skies.
If Virgin goes under than a rampant Qantas will screw the Australian captive customers for all they are worth......again! I can see that this is TBM's wet dream. A Qantas monopoly again, but this time not just International, domestic as well! Lets see; $1000 - Melbourne Sydney, $2000 - Melbourne Brisbane, $5000 to Perth!
Competitively priced air travel is essential to Australias economy, it is axiomatic that Qantas won't provide it without competition. If there is no competition then we need to open the skies.
It may not be his fault as such, but I’m sorry, my tax paying dollars don’t deserve to go to a foreign owned outfit that can’t get their stuff in order. I challenge anyone to explain to me why MY and everyone else’s taxes should bail an individual company out? And forget the two airlines needed to keep the air fair, whilst they’ve been here 20 years and are in this situation! But you haven’t paid much in the way of Aussie tax I’m afraid, and were quick to take advantage of the Ansett collapse many years ago.
And whilst VA have not paid any Company tax - I can assure you they still contribute indirectly to the tax system. The NB pilots would pay at least $60m in income tax every year alone. Not to mention GST, fuel excise taxes, etc etc.
I hope you’re as passionate about some of these issues in 6 months time when QF (remember the 40% foreign owned airline) puts their hand out for money (from your tax payer dollars, which they haven’t contributed to much recently either care of that handy $2b write down of assets a few years ago....)
For those of you playing along at home, it seems that all airlines are part owned by overseas companies.
QANTAS is very much partly overseas owned. A little research goes along way
QANTAS is very much partly overseas owned. A little research goes along way
Last edited by Double_Clutch; 14th Apr 2020 at 22:37.
The major issue with Virgin’s operations (IMHO) is that they have too many fleets in small numbers. When you have only 4-5 aircraft in a fleet, your investment in spares, maintenance, training costs, etc is far greater than when you have a fleet of 15-20 aircraft. The only way that I can see Virgin trading out of this is to reduce their operations to a single large fleet of B737’s with all the B777’s, A330’s, A320’s, ATR’s etc disposed of - with significant losses due to the depressed market. This will cause significant pain for many staff but, it s necessary to save the airline. All the best to Virgin staff.
VAH has tremendous local support. It has good people. All the best.
Last edited by crosscutter; 14th Apr 2020 at 22:37.
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Absolutely agree, fleet consolidation, probably 737; trunk routes only.
If financing can be found there is hope.
Hang in there peeps, we're all in this together.
Craven
If financing can be found there is hope.
Hang in there peeps, we're all in this together.
Craven
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There should be some news today, or at opening tomorrow at the latest.
The announcement states "Virgin Australia wishes the trading halt to remain in place until the earlier of the release of an announcement by the Company or two trading days."
The announcement states "Virgin Australia wishes the trading halt to remain in place until the earlier of the release of an announcement by the Company or two trading days."
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This is a standard release - a trading halt cannot be longer than 2 trading days.
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From The Australian “Scott Morrison Refuses to Budge on Bailout for Virgin”
The federal government has no *intention of being Virgin’s “white knight”, dismissing growing calls for it to intervene to save the airline or even take a temporary *equity stake to prevent its collapse.
Senior government sources fear ongoing speculation about the commonwealth bailing out the foreign-owned Virgin is counter-productive, crowding out any *potential market-led solution.
While the Morrison government is concerned about the *future of Virgin, and job losses in aviation, sources insist the JobKeeper package is designed to help businesses ravaged by COVID-19 and a Virgin-specific bailout, including taking an equity stake, won’t happen.
Scott Morrison told Sky News on Tuesday: “Our plan has always been about preserving businesses as the centre of the economy, not the government at the centre of our economy. Businesses are at the centre of our economy and we want to *ensure they get through this intact … so they can lead the recovery … on the other side.”
Sources told The Australian that, despite speculation and support from Labor, this would not include any special rescue package for Virgin. The government *believes a bailout for Virgin would open the floodgates for other struggling businesses.
Deputy Prime Minister *Michael McCormack has been trying to secure an agreement from the airlines to operate a *minimum number of flights *between major centres to maintain freight connections and carry Australians to their home town or city after *enforced quarantine.
READ MORE:Virgin in trading halt amid rescue hopes|It takes two to keep the air fair|Canberra in Virgin debt dogfight|Virgin races to restructure debtBut a planned announcement on Tuesday was progressively pushed back as Virgin Australia sought assurances it would not be left out of pocket as a result of the flights. It is understood the airline has been unhappy with relief measures announced by the government to date.
Despite Mr McCormack’s promise that $159m of a $715m fee relief package would be paid to Qantas and Virgin, neither airline has yet to receive any money.
With flying reduced to almost nothing, Virgin estimated the total cost benefit of the package from February 1 to September 30 would amount to less than $70m.
For the second time this month, Virgin shares were placed in a trading halt on Tuesday pending an announcement about financial assistance and debt restructuring by Thursday.
Virgin chief executive Paul Scurrah is working on a restructuring plan with investment bank Houlihan Lokey and, with the backing of Labor, he *believes the airline is crucial to Australia’s economic recovery and the government should take an *equity stake to secure its future.
But the Prime Minister and Josh Frydenberg insisted any further support for the aviation sector would be spread across the industry. “We haven’t been picking any winners or picking any favourites here,” Mr Morrison told the Nine Network. “What we’ve been doing is ensuring we’re giving sector-wide support. So we’ll continue to deal with the sector on a sector-wide basis.”
The Treasurer also ruled out a Virgin-specific rescue package and suggested talk of the airline’s collapse was “speculating about the future”.
“Nobody knows where those issues will end up,” Mr Frydenberg said. “Australia’s been well served by having two major airlines operating in the domestic market. But Virgin and Qantas are both publicly listed companies, both with substantial shareholders.”
The federal government has no *intention of being Virgin’s “white knight”, dismissing growing calls for it to intervene to save the airline or even take a temporary *equity stake to prevent its collapse.
Senior government sources fear ongoing speculation about the commonwealth bailing out the foreign-owned Virgin is counter-productive, crowding out any *potential market-led solution.
While the Morrison government is concerned about the *future of Virgin, and job losses in aviation, sources insist the JobKeeper package is designed to help businesses ravaged by COVID-19 and a Virgin-specific bailout, including taking an equity stake, won’t happen.
Scott Morrison told Sky News on Tuesday: “Our plan has always been about preserving businesses as the centre of the economy, not the government at the centre of our economy. Businesses are at the centre of our economy and we want to *ensure they get through this intact … so they can lead the recovery … on the other side.”
Sources told The Australian that, despite speculation and support from Labor, this would not include any special rescue package for Virgin. The government *believes a bailout for Virgin would open the floodgates for other struggling businesses.
Deputy Prime Minister *Michael McCormack has been trying to secure an agreement from the airlines to operate a *minimum number of flights *between major centres to maintain freight connections and carry Australians to their home town or city after *enforced quarantine.
READ MORE:Virgin in trading halt amid rescue hopes|It takes two to keep the air fair|Canberra in Virgin debt dogfight|Virgin races to restructure debtBut a planned announcement on Tuesday was progressively pushed back as Virgin Australia sought assurances it would not be left out of pocket as a result of the flights. It is understood the airline has been unhappy with relief measures announced by the government to date.
Despite Mr McCormack’s promise that $159m of a $715m fee relief package would be paid to Qantas and Virgin, neither airline has yet to receive any money.
With flying reduced to almost nothing, Virgin estimated the total cost benefit of the package from February 1 to September 30 would amount to less than $70m.
For the second time this month, Virgin shares were placed in a trading halt on Tuesday pending an announcement about financial assistance and debt restructuring by Thursday.
Virgin chief executive Paul Scurrah is working on a restructuring plan with investment bank Houlihan Lokey and, with the backing of Labor, he *believes the airline is crucial to Australia’s economic recovery and the government should take an *equity stake to secure its future.
But the Prime Minister and Josh Frydenberg insisted any further support for the aviation sector would be spread across the industry. “We haven’t been picking any winners or picking any favourites here,” Mr Morrison told the Nine Network. “What we’ve been doing is ensuring we’re giving sector-wide support. So we’ll continue to deal with the sector on a sector-wide basis.”
The Treasurer also ruled out a Virgin-specific rescue package and suggested talk of the airline’s collapse was “speculating about the future”.
“Nobody knows where those issues will end up,” Mr Frydenberg said. “Australia’s been well served by having two major airlines operating in the domestic market. But Virgin and Qantas are both publicly listed companies, both with substantial shareholders.”