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Government Loan to Virgin Australia

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Government Loan to Virgin Australia

Old 13th May 2020, 05:24
  #1181 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 114
I could start with #1175 .....
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Old 13th May 2020, 08:07
  #1182 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: BBN
Posts: 191
QLD Government are making a bid for Virgin “Project Maroon”. I guess Palaszczuk fell for the sales pitch.
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Old 13th May 2020, 08:46
  #1183 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 394
Project Moron would be a better description.
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Old 13th May 2020, 08:56
  #1184 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SA
Age: 59
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perhaps "Rhinella 123", or "Toader 123" or even "Annastacia 123"
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Old 13th May 2020, 08:58
  #1185 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Aust
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
Project Moron would be a better description.
Lol.

As if QLD isn't already in enough debt...
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Old 13th May 2020, 09:07
  #1186 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Australia
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It is OK, it is other people’s money! It is worth it to see Lookleft and Ragnor reaction!!!

On the plus side it should speed up the opening of state borders....if it goes ahead

Last edited by ozbiggles; 13th May 2020 at 10:24.
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Old 13th May 2020, 10:31
  #1187 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oz
Posts: 299
Qld Govt buying Virgin...well that brightened my day😁😁😁😁.

Only laugh I’ve had since “furlough”.
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Old 14th May 2020, 00:05
  #1188 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 1,295
The Courier-Mail's Department of Clever Headlines couldn't help itself.



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Old 14th May 2020, 03:14
  #1189 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: S.O.E.
Posts: 138
DICK BIDS FOR VIRGIN

This headline says it all very succinctly.
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Old 14th May 2020, 06:56
  #1190 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 382
https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...13-p54snq.html

Sounds like the administrators are quite delusional about the post COVID19 aviation market


Virgin Australia’s administrators have proposed the airline buy a fleet of new long-range Boeing Dreamliner 787 aircraft, but prospective buyers are concerned its plan for the collapsed airline ignores how fundamentally COVID-19 has changed the aviation industry.

Nineteen parties are weighing up rescue bids for Virgin following its collapse last month, with preliminary bids due by 6pm Friday, and they have been presented with a confidential management business plan for the relaunched carrier called "Virgin v2.0".
Deloitte and Virgin management's plan for the airline includes a new international fleet. CREDITDWINA PICKLES

Several sources close to the process, who spoke on the condition of anonymity due to strict confidentiality agreements, said the plan includes buying eight Boeing 787 Dreamliners to replace Virgin's existing international fleet of five Boeing 777s and six Airbus A330s.

Boeing 787s have a "list price" of between $US250 million and $US338 million ($388 million to $525 million) depending on the model, although airlines normally negotiate significant discounts.
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Simplifying Virgin's fleet to reduce costs was a core part of chief executive Paul Scurrah's turnaround plan for the airline prior to it entering administration.

The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald previously revealed the business plan, detailed in a memorandum distributed to key bidders, involves maintaining an international network, which was under a cloud because it was a source of heavy financial losses.

'Fundamentally changed'

Those details come amid growing frustration from potential bidders that Virgin’s administrator, Deloitte, is asking them to buy a business largely as it was before it collapsed and before the COVID-19 pandemic brought the global aviation industry to a standstill.

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Airlines around the world have been devastated by the pandemic and major industry players expect it to take two to five years for passenger demand to recover. Deloitte hopes to secure a new owner for Virgin by mid-August.

More than half a dozen people close to potential bidders or working in senior aviation industry roles expressed concern and disbelief Deloitte was not using its administration powers to more aggressively restructure the airline by reducing its aircraft fleet and considering employee redundancies in recognition that a relaunched Virgin will operate in a significantly smaller aviation market.
“There’s no recognition that the market has fundamentally changed," said one source, adding administrators were setting up the winning bidder as the "bad guy" who would have to cut its fleet and workforce after they take ownership.

“They are setting themselves up for the most catastrophic failure - some of the consortiums are close to saying ‘ok, fine we’ll see you in the liquidation'."

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“This is the time to fix it,” another source close to one bidder said of the loss-making company. A third said the administration appeared to be controlled by Virgin management, with Deloitte adopting its long-term plan for the airline.

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AVIATION

Andrew Forrest joins 20 bidders circling Virgin Australia

Add to shortlistIntelligence firm CAPA - Centre for Aviation this week projected that Austrlaia's domestic airline capacity will be at only 49 per cent of last year's levels by October and at 60 per cent by December. International flights will be at just 15 per cent of 2019 capacity by the end of the year.

Deloitte has told potential buyers Virgin could triple its earnings to $1.2 billion in the 2022 financial year, which would be a drastic change in fortunes after being unprofitable for the past seven years and racking up combined losses of $1.9 billion.

Deloitte's lead administrator, Vaughan Strawbridge, has said he does not plan to make any workers redundant. Virgin employed around 9300 people prior to administration, most of whom have been stood down from work during the pandemic. Virgin made 1000 workers redundant in March as the pandemic started to bite.

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RELATED ARTICLE

AVIATION

The week that Virgin Australia hit the ground hard

Add to shortlistCOVID-19 has devastated airlines around the world. British Airways is making up to 12,000 staff redundant, while US carriers have signalled significant layoffs. Air New Zealand has said it will lay off about a third of its workforce, or around 3500 employees in the coming months.

Ed Bastian, chief executive of Delta Air Lines, which is the world's largest carrier, said last month that a full industry recovery would take two to three years, while jet maker Airbus has said it could take up to five years before passengers travel is at pre-pandemic levels again.

Groups known to be considering a bid for Virgin include US private equity firm Bain Capital, local private equity group BGH Capital and Canadian asset manager Brookfield. The Queensland government on Wednesday announced its intention to bid for the airline, while co-founder Richard Branson is said to be waiting in the wings to join a leading consortium.
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Old 14th May 2020, 07:00
  #1191 (permalink)  
rmm
 
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It might be pitched towards the QLD Govt.
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Old 14th May 2020, 07:36
  #1192 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 73
These administrators just get more laughable by the day, I know airplanes are cheap right now but who cares, could be many years before anyone is able to fill a 787 long haul. Why not also suggest the lucky buyer purchase a fleet of Saturn V rockets as well. Could launch them next to Movie World, QLD to LHR in 18 minutes, NASA may offer them a good deal.

I truly hope I’m wrong but it sounds more likely that this is not going to end well.
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Old 14th May 2020, 07:54
  #1193 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
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Originally Posted by chookcooker View Post
Meanwhile IATA thinks international travel to recover in 2023

https://amp.news.com.au/travel/trave...fc5fa0b325b073

it’s well accepted domestic to recover much sooner.

the article referring to CAPA predictions for second half 2020 is ridiculous. Pretty sure every interested party is thinking slightly longer term than this year.
2023 would be great, I’ve seen estimates ranging from December this year through 2027 by experts now.

You’re right that any buyer would be looking longer term, I guess it depends how much money they bring to the table with them and how long they can hold out til things get better someday, whenever that may be. I still think these administrators from all accounts are selling a farcically impossible dream and according to a few articles now, buyers appear to be catching on to the game.
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Old 14th May 2020, 08:10
  #1194 (permalink)  
 
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Genuine question, can someone please explain to me how any business in administration is able to make demands on potential mew owners/investors about how they should run said business? I know it's not the same by a long shot but it feels like buying a train set and being told when and how you can use it.
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Old 14th May 2020, 08:13
  #1195 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NT
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by LostWanderer View Post
2023 would be great, I’ve seen estimates ranging from December this year through 2027 by experts now.

You’re right that any buyer would be looking longer term, I guess it depends how much money they bring to the table with them and how long they can hold out til things get better someday, whenever that may be. I still think these administrators from all accounts are selling a farcically impossible dream and according to a few articles now, buyers appear to be catching on to the game.
got any links to experts predicting up to 2027?
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Old 14th May 2020, 08:39
  #1196 (permalink)  
 
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I think LFA what is happening is the media are making up inch columns with anonymous sources and half truths. Virgin always had a plan to consolidate their wide body fleet, they have already retrenched a thousand pilots and cabin crew and I think it was 750 from the office. It is all old news you can read in Aus Aviation, but never waste a good crisis, this was probably always the plan pre covid but got sped up by a few years. All the stuff I keep seeing is elements of what should/could/:might/won’t happen and what is coming out now is just a mish mash of what was and what was planned and the new reality. The sources the media keep ‘using’ are the usual half wits trying to make them selves relevant in a world where what was in the morning is not what is in the afternoon. VA in its present form can say whatever they had planned going forward, the new owner will make their decisions.
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Old 14th May 2020, 08:56
  #1197 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
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Originally Posted by junior.VH-LFA View Post
Genuine question, can someone please explain to me how any business in administration is able to make demands on potential mew owners/investors about how they should run said business? I know it's not the same by a long shot but it feels like buying a train set and being told when and how you can use it.
The Administrator can lay out whatever provisions and conditions they like in the information memorandum but at the end of the day it's up to the proponents to submit the bid that they want. Without knowing exactly how Deloitte are running the process I'm just speculating but having seen not dissimilar processes run in the past they may have asked for proponents to submit a 'conforming bid' - that is one embracing let's just call it the Scurrah-Strawbridge Delusion - and then provide the option to submit a non-conforming bid as well. The non-conforming bid will be what the proponent wants to acquire and how much they will pay for/how much of the existing debt they will take-on/roll-over.

For all the hoopla about twenty interested parties and sophisticated bidders, it will all be resolved tomorrow when the non-binding bids are submitted. I'd be surprised if there are more than four bids (maybe five) and none of them will be buying into the Delusion.
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Old 14th May 2020, 09:06
  #1198 (permalink)  
 
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And the stressed out Virgin employee is left in the dark trying to work out what is going on and do they have a job. It was said at the beginning that it was going to be a roller-coaster ride for them and what is being published would be contributing to that. Unfortunately they might be thinking that the meeting tomorrow will provide some certainty but all it will do is provide a lot more uncertainty and no clearer picture as to when their nightmare ends.
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Old 14th May 2020, 11:24
  #1199 (permalink)  
 
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Location: Fliegensville, Gold Coast Australia
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And the stressed out Virgin employee is left in the dark trying to work out what is going on and do they have a job. It was said at the beginning that it was going to be a roller-coaster ride for them and what is being published would be contributing to that. Unfortunately they might be thinking that the meeting tomorrow will provide some certainty but all it will do is provide a lot more uncertainty and no clearer picture as to when their nightmare ends.

Yeah, pretty much that is so I would say Lookleft. .... and for realistic sake...did u think anything else was going to happen?
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Old 14th May 2020, 12:21
  #1200 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
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No I didn’t think it would be any different. Thankfully I don’t work for Virgin but I went through the whole Ansett debacle so I know how it feels. I wish them all the best during what will be a crap time.
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