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RIN 2020

Old 29th Mar 2020, 03:11
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RIN 2020

With the last B747 service, there would be a lot of pilots soon to retire, almost retire and then the ones who have been taking the cream for 15-20 years and haven’t taken a promotion. Anyhow, I digress.

RIN 2020. How will it work?

the company won’t have the money for a full RIN a55 kicking exercise going backwards... could they fire just the -400 guys, or could they keep the “stood down” permanently?
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 04:09
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How much $ is in the QF bank?

why would the EA not apply?



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Old 29th Mar 2020, 04:52
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Given the nature of the changes that are occurring every few hours let alone every day/ week, I’m not sure the company has yet had time to even look too deeply into how a RIN could work. I’m quite confident it’s not yet very high on their priority list.

Of course pilots being pilots (particularly with lots of idle time in our brains) are turning their minds to such things.

I suspect that’s it for the 747 but I’m pretty sure no final decision has yet been made. Again, what was current a few days ago is no longer current.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 04:52
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The chief pilot was asked this in a webinar the other day. His exact words were "at an appropriate time we will follow the RIN process". Make of that what you will.

My personal opinion is that the retirements and remaining 747 pilots would have already been accounted for with the next 3 787's.

With the head of training saying all courses have been deferred, I suspect those waiting for a RIN off the 747 will just stay stood down.

How they get all the wheels turning again is going to be a big task.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 04:57
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And the 380?????
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 05:49
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If we get to the point where we are doing a RIN then that's a positive because it means we are flying again.
Nothing is certain.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 06:17
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Cathay’s debt profile as of Dec 19. 90% debt:equity. The shake down hasn’t even started yet. It’s far too early to be making decisions.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 07:35
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One hell of a mess, where as most wanted to go to the 380 IMO they will now go to the 787.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 07:42
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Can’t really RIN anyone to any fleet when they aren’t flying, and no line training can be conducted.

I’m told VA have said the redundant Tiger pilots are on stand down until there’s cash to pay them a redundancy.

It may be a case that the 744 and excess 380 pilots are just held on indefinite standown until there’s 787s or even some 350s for them to go to and they get by on either leave or the government’s wage subsidy until then. Natural attrition will probably take care of a decent chunk of pilots in that case.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 08:01
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My reading of 15.6 is that once restrictions are lifted on international operations and pilots are called back from Stand down then its one back all back. The fact that there are not enough customers is not the pilots problem.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 08:08
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I think this is another case of sit on your hands and don’t listen to rumours. When the 767 was retired on the back of a $2B loss, all these same rumours were being thrown out there, company wasn’t going to follow the EA, FWA would throw the award out etc etc etc.

As history will show, the 767 RIN followed the EA at great expense right after a $2B loss. Don’t listen to the scaremongering.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 08:12
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I think you need to re read 15.6 Dragonman. It all refers to a pilot, singular, not plural.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 08:15
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Originally Posted by dragon man View Post
The fact that there are not enough customers is not the pilots problem.
It sure will be the pilots problem should it eventuate. Your employment is directly linked to your employers circumstances. Only public servants get to ignore reality.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 08:24
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Correct.

The Company may deduct payments from the pay of an Australian based pilot for any day the pilot cannot be usefully employed because of any strike, stoppage or other limitation of work for which the Company cannot be held responsible, subject to the following conditions:

Then each individual pilot can return to work once those limitations for which the company cannot be held responsible are lifted, in other words planes can fly unrestricted the fact there are not customers is not the pilots responsibility.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 08:47
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If you are on a fleet that has no flying, then you cannot be usefully employed and will remain stood down.

That's how I read it?
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 08:51
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Originally Posted by normanton View Post
If you are on a fleet that has no flying, then you cannot be usefully employed and will remain stood down.

That's how I read it?
In the case of the 747 there is no fleet therefore a RIN.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 08:55
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And as the CP said two days ago "at an appropriate time we will follow the RIN process". What he meant by "an appropriate time" is anyone's guess. The way he stumbled at the answer made it sound like it wont be happening anytime soon.

We are in uncharted territory. A lot of the 747 crew will have to make the decision: RIN to 380 and remain stood down, or RIN to the 787 and wait for a training course. That's assuming the rumours are correct. Only two days ago management denied it.

Last edited by normanton; 29th Mar 2020 at 09:00. Reason: nly two
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 09:01
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That’s your opinion it does not mean it’s correct. Fair work stand down provisions are quite explicit that lack of customers when there are no restrictions on your business are not reasons for standing down staff.


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Old 29th Mar 2020, 09:04
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Dragonman, If you are stood down and the 747 is gone, whats the trigger that says you can be usefully employed when the individual(s) have no aircraft to be usefully employed on? Therefore a RIN cannot take place until the company can see a place where you can be usefully employed, then you are entitled under the award to a RIN process. Thats the way I read it.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 09:07
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And that's your opinion dragon_man. It also doesn't mean its correct.

If your fleet is grounded and therefore you cannot be usefully employed then they are within their rights to stand you down.

If the corona-virus has destroyed international travel to the point where large commercial aircraft are not viable, then that's out of the company's control, and within the stand down rights.
in other words planes can fly unrestricted the fact there are not customers is not the pilots responsibility.
No, that's your words, not the law.
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