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RIN 2020

Old 29th Mar 2020, 09:07
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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If you are not RINed then in my option a VR/CR must be offered. We have different opinions and they will not be solved here, in the coming months we will find out I guess.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 09:14
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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You could lead by example and retire.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 09:17
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dragon man View Post
If you are not RINed then in my option a VR/CR must be offered. We have different opinions and they will not be solved here, in the coming months we will find out I guess.
Unfortunately I think on the 747 and maybe some of the 380 you can almost bank on CRs, no RIN and positions offered on fleets that can absorb bit of a surplus. I just hope redundancies are at the LH agreement formula and not Fair works.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 09:32
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Have you been fibbing to us dragon_man? I thought you were retired.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 09:34
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Troo believer View Post
You could lead by example and retire.
As could you.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 11:42
  #26 (permalink)  
Keg

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You can’t CR on the 747 fleet. The EA doesn’t permit it. The company could certainly offer VR to those pilots though. Any pilot that decided to not take up such an offer would then be subject to a RIN.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 14:21
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dragon man View Post
Thatís your opinion it does not mean itís correct. Fair work stand down provisions are quite explicit that lack of customers when there are no restrictions on your business are not reasons for standing down staff.
Theyíve been stood down under the LHEA, not FW provisions.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 20:28
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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I agree with dragon man that the way the stand down provisions state, EA or FW, that a lack of demand is not not a valid reason.
Kegs right as well about CR.
Interesting how this will play out.
Also those on the 400 who were going to retire will be no doubt be thinking how they will play this?
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 04:55
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Well that is interesting having a category of pilots who "cannot" be made redundant

Would be interested to see the wording on that (& not suggesting it isn't true) - but it does sound like job security

Which I thought AJ said would never happen & this would make me a little skeptical about a black & white statement "747 crew cannot be made redundant"

Do you really think QF would go through the very significant costs of retraining 747 crews onto other types when any recovery comes , when the
airline is fighting for its survival . & I don't know how to put a band aid on , absolutely zero medical knowledge but I understand numbers & we are at 4000 positive now , 1000 seven days ago , 250 14 days ago
& about 70 21 days ago. Very consistent increase 400% per week for three weeks now. We aren't going to get a quick fix & planes back in the air with this growth rate

Then again I guess the cruise ships & larger arrivals of returnee Australians had some thing to do with it. If we are at 16,000 in seven days , that will not be good

Clearly that will get interesting in both SH & LH , who is recalled first from stand down , how is that done ? , is it done by seniority , by fleet , by base or
a combination of all. If seniority & the A330 were going back then it would largely be 4 engine crews taking over that flying

What about SH ? , base dependent ?

There doesn't seem to be any mention & in any employment contract about how a recall from a stand down would work & no case law to use as guidance

So company likely to do it in most economical way ? , meaning they won't do massive retraining programs

Last edited by Telfer86; 30th Mar 2020 at 05:29.
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 05:44
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Telfer86 View Post
Well that is interesting having a category of pilots who "cannot" be made redundant

Would be interested to see the wording on that (& not suggesting it isn't true) - but it does sound like job security

Which I thought AJ said would never happen & this would make me a little skeptical about a black & white statement "747 crew cannot be made redundant"

Do you really think QF would go through the very significant costs of retraining 747 crews onto other types when any recovery comes , when the
airline is fighting for its survival . & I don't know how to put a band aid on , absolutely zero medical knowledge but I understand numbers & we are at 4000 positive now , 1000 seven days ago , 250 14 days ago
& about 70 21 days ago. Very consistent increase 400% per week for three weeks now. We aren't going to get a quick fix & planes back in the air with this growth rate

Then again I guess the cruise ships & larger arrivals of returnee Australians had some thing to do with it. If we are at 16,000 in seven days , that will not be good

Clearly that will get interesting in both SH & LH , who is recalled first from stand down , how is that done ? , is it done by seniority , by fleet , by base or
a combination of all. If seniority & the A330 were going back then it would largely be 4 engine crews taking over that flying

What about SH ? , base dependent ?

There doesn't seem to be any mention & in any employment contract about how a recall from a stand down would work & no case law to use as guidance

So company likely to do it in most economical way ? , meaning they won't do massive retraining programs
So group seniority lists are worthless?
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 06:25
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
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The seniority lists are used to determine promotion eligibility & bidding for trips in LH

Think some detail on how seniority can be used for return to work following redundancy, ie: 15.10 etc . CR looks like the best deal doesn't it
you still get paid out & then have your name placed on the "redundancy list" & get re-employed at your old Seniority number - that's juicy. VR must
be better than CR , which at 3 weeks per year (up to 5 years) and 4 weeks per year over 5 years is a Hollywood redundancy by Australian standards

But no mention of how seniority can be used for return to work following a stand down , clearly AIPA thought it would never happen
so they never bothered putting any 'flesh on the bone' in this part of their employment contract . Also not certain any case law about
(could be wrong)

AIPA had redundancy covered off quite well , but let "stand down" go through to the keeper

Clearly if seniority is used , it is no big secret there are plenty of former Ansett guys who joined QF after collapse & have elected to remain SOs
on the A380/747 (obviously as is their right) who would replace SOs hired in last few years of recruitment. Likely many of the four engine Capts & FOs would
also replace the A330/787 Capts & FOs . This could delay by years the return to work of the 400 + hired since late 2016

Got tad diverted , but the answer to your question is the seniority lists work perfectly for what they are "given effect" for , ie: promotion , bidding , and holidays etc on LH

They pilot association just forgot to worry about stand downs , maybe too much time spent on whether they get night credits at rate A or rate B for the new AC
& didn't focus on the big picture , the "Black Swan" event

Last edited by Telfer86; 30th Mar 2020 at 08:26.
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