Qantas stand down 20,000 employees till end of May

[Led Zeppelin]

Sick Leave is an interesting one - Annual leave and sick leave are generally both accrued as part of many employment agreements.

I don't know whether it will hinge on the fact that employees are still employed, even though stand down clauses of applicable agreements have been enacted and whether those stand down clauses specifically provide for the cancellation of sick leave during this period.

Annual leave accrues during a stand down because the employee is not "redundant", so the issue of sick leave will probably be a significant decision if it ever gets to a formal tribunal.

Everyone needs to be a bit careful what they wish for, because if a tribunal sick leave decision goes against a company, that may well result in immediate redundancies, which is clearly not desirable.

[junior.VH-LFA]

I've heard the 747 retirement has officially been brought forward, anyone able to confirm this?

[Sunfish]

Qantas is correct about sick leave.

[crosscutter]

Originally Posted by Sunfish

Qantas is correct about sick leave.

The EAs have specific stand down provisions which take precedence over FWA legislation. Unfortunately for pilots the NES (min employment standards) do not include stood down provisions.

So yes, correct legally...but that’s the only way it is right.

[Vindiesel]

Stand down is generally available under section 524 of the Fair Work Act. Nothing to do with the NES.

[crosscutter]

And section 524 and 525 does not apply because the collective EAs take precedence over FWA legislation. However, the NES conditions (about 10) are non negotiable and are included even if not included in an EA.

All I’m saying is look at your EA for guidance...not the legislation.

[Paragraph377]

F#cking Joyce and Morrison. If people are put out of work because of a decision by our Government then the Government should be paying every cent of their wages. They spend hundreds of billions on foreign aid and on armaments each year so how about some help for their own people for once! Otherwise they need to be prepared for what happens when you make 2 million desperate people unemployed overnight.

[Asturias56]

"If people are put out of work because of a decision by our Government then the Government should be paying every cent of their wages."

For a start it's not just the Australian Govt. If there were no restrictions in Australia Qantas would still be in a hole as they can't fly to most destinations internationally

Second it isn't the Govt's job to pay every cent of everyone's wages - in an emergency it's their job to make sure everyone is safe and survives . That may mean paying everyone the absolute minimum to keep body & soul together rather than the salaries they've been pulling down for years. They may ask you where your savings are..

[Paragraph377]

Originally Posted by Asturias56

"If people are put out of work because of a decision by our Government then the Government should be paying every cent of their wages."

For a start it's not just the Australian Govt. If there were no restrictions in Australia Qantas would still be in a hole as they can't fly to most destinations internationally

Second it isn't the Govt's job to pay every cent of everyone's wages - in an emergency it's their job to make sure everyone is safe and survives . That may mean paying everyone the absolute minimum to keep body & soul together rather than the salaries they've been pulling down for years. They may ask you where your savings are..

Well mate they are on a gaurenteed salary and their super is protected by legislation so they are fine. It’s not their cafe’s, hair salons or cleaning businesses being closed. It’s not the Politicians who are being destroyed and devastated at the moment. They aren’t being told to go home with no weekly pay packet. Those f#ckers always have a ‘get out of jail free card’ and escape the pain that everyone else goes through. I don’t recall Morrison, Turnbull, Rudd, Keating, Hawke, Howard, Abbott, Gillard , Whitlam, Frazer, Holt or others fighting in a trench in Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan, do you? Gutless finger pointers who don’t feel the effects of bad decisions. Parasites sitting in their ivory towers in fantasy land of Canberra. Let’s put them in the Centrelink que, take away half of their super and destroy their careers and future. See how they like it. Pr#cks

[morno]

Originally Posted by Paragraph377

Well mate they are on a gaurenteed salary and their super is protected by legislation so they are fine. It’s not their cafe’s, hair salons or cleaning businesses being closed. It’s not the Politicians who are being destroyed and devastated at the moment. They aren’t being told to go home with no weekly pay packet. Those f#ckers always have a ‘get out of jail free card’ and escape the pain that everyone else goes through. I don’t recall Morrison, Turnbull, Rudd, Keating, Hawke, Howard, Abbott, Gillard , Whitlam, Frazer, Holt or others fighting in a trench in Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan, do you? Gutless finger pointers who don’t feel the effects of bad decisions. Parasites sitting in their ivory towers in fantasy land of Canberra. Let’s put them in the Centrelink que, take away half of their super and destroy their careers and future. See how they like it. Pr#cks

So would you prefer that we just carry on as normal and kill a few thousand people instead?

I’m on stand down like many others, I don’t expect the government to pay me what I was earning beforehand. I expect to get through this by finding general work or using what savings I have, like a responsible adult should.

[SRFred]

Notice you left Gorton out of your list. Fair enough as he had some scruples and did fight in WW2.

[SecretAngel]

Originally Posted by Paragraph377

Well mate they are on a gaurenteed salary and their super is protected by legislation so they are fine. It’s not their cafe’s, hair salons or cleaning businesses being closed. It’s not the Politicians who are being destroyed and devastated at the moment. They aren’t being told to go home with no weekly pay packet. Those f#ckers always have a ‘get out of jail free card’ and escape the pain that everyone else goes through. I don’t recall Morrison, Turnbull, Rudd, Keating, Hawke, Howard, Abbott, Gillard , Whitlam, Frazer, Holt or others fighting in a trench in Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan, do you? Gutless finger pointers who don’t feel the effects of bad decisions. Parasites sitting in their ivory towers in fantasy land of Canberra. Let’s put them in the Centrelink que, take away half of their super and destroy their careers and future. See how they like it. Pr#cks

Mate, I get that you're hurting and angry. But locking the country down will save thousands of lives. It's the right thing to do - even if it sucks for us.

We're in a pretty privileged position as pilots. We get paid a lot. Multiple times the average income (and more than most politicians). We earn enough to save for a rainy to day, unlike thousands of hospo workers, cleaners and the like. We get to sit this out at home (or stacking shelves) while the doctors and nurses and police put their lives on the line to save others. Bizarre though it is - I can actually feel for some of the politicians right now, who are under the pressure of making massive decisions that will affect millions of people in Australia, without any manual or checklist.

Now's the time to support and look out for each other, however we can.

[josephfeatherweight]

SecretAngel - nicely put, thanks.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Originally Posted by SecretAngel

Mate, I get that you're hurting and angry. But locking the country down will save thousands of lives. It's the right thing to do - even if it sucks for us.

We're in a pretty privileged position as pilots. We get paid a lot. Multiple times the average income (and more than most politicians). We earn enough to save for a rainy to day,getb unlike thousands of hospo workers, cleaners and the like. We get to sit this out at home (or stacking shelves) while the doctors and nurses and police put their lives on the line to save others. Bizarre though it is - I can actually feel for some of the politicians right now, who are under the pressure of making massive decisions that will affect millions of people in Australia, without any manual or checklist.

Now's the time to support and look out for each other, however we can.

And that may be by letting those who are impacted the hardest do shelf-stacking jobs as a means of getting by......

I agree with you though, this is a nightmare no politician would want or deserves. They need the chattering classes to stick together and follow the guidelines to get through this. Debrief usually happens after the stricken aircraft has safely landed not before.

[Asturias56]

"So would you prefer that we just carry on as normal and kill a few thousand people instead?"

Without lockdown it won't be thousands - it'll be hundreds of thousands

I heard an Italian doctor on the radio last week calling from Bergamo -

"Get this straight. There is no cure. There is no vaccine. There is no way to stop transmission but to self isolate and close down business's and leisure. Deaths are increasing all the time here. "

he was recovering from the virus an was about to go back to working in hospital.

[AerialPerspective]

Originally Posted by dr dre

Noted “expert at everything” Alan Jones, who until just last week was still spruiking the debunked “herd immunity” theory and was downplaying the pandemic as “hysteria” and “nonsense” a few weeks ago.

After going onto his FB page to read what he had written I’ve noticed he writes very short sentences and paragraphs loaded with very emotional language for people who obviously don’t think too hard about anything.

Alan Jones has no experience or skill in anything apart from his own big mouth and should be listened to by no one with a brain.

Agreed. What was that big controversy years back about talking up companies and getting paid for it... was that him?

This bloke is just a windbag. He is the first to complain about people's 'freedom of speech' and people being 'offended' and 'PC gone mad'. Yet, when Alan Joyce, whether one likes him or not, simply states a fact Jones immediately jumps on the band wagon and pontificates about it.

I have listened to and read what AJ said more than once. What I took from it was if a strong company or one with a decent balance sheet (putting aside various opinions about how it was arrived at, etc.) has reserves to weather this sort of crisis and another which has not been profitible hasn't, then that other company should not be bailed out but rather, the industry should be helped as a sector, not company specific. That is a perfectly rational comment to make. It's akin to having a neighbour who never mows their lawn, let's the grass grow 6 feet, refuses requests or directions from the council to clean it up, doesn't bother getting insurance where, say, their mortgage requires it. The person who they are next to does all the right things, insures their house, keeps their property clean, clears out their guttering, etc.

Both houses burn down or are substantially damaged by a fire, a natural occurrence. The good neighbour claims on their insurance and has to have their insurance premiums go up and pay a hefty excess.
The lazy neighbour who broke all the rules cries poor and gets his/her house rebuilt by the government or the government takes the re-building as equity in their house.

Is that fair?

If not, what's different about what Joyce said?

[Dragun]

Originally Posted by AerialPerspective

Agreed. What was that big controversy years back about talking up companies and getting paid for it... was that him?

This bloke is just a windbag. He is the first to complain about people's 'freedom of speech' and people being 'offended' and 'PC gone mad'. Yet, when Alan Joyce, whether one likes him or not, simply states a fact Jones immediately jumps on the band wagon and pontificates about it.

I have listened to and read what AJ said more than once. What I took from it was if a strong company or one with a decent balance sheet (putting aside various opinions about how it was arrived at, etc.) has reserves to weather this sort of crisis and another which has not been profitible hasn't, then that other company should not be bailed out but rather, the industry should be helped as a sector, not company specific. That is a perfectly rational comment to make. It's akin to having a neighbour who never mows their lawn, let's the grass grow 6 feet, refuses requests or directions from the council to clean it up, doesn't bother getting insurance where, say, their mortgage requires it. The person who they are next to does all the right things, insures their house, keeps their property clean, clears out their guttering, etc.

Both houses burn down or are substantially damaged by a fire, a natural occurrence. The good neighbour claims on their insurance and has to have their insurance premiums go up and pay a hefty excess.
The lazy neighbour who broke all the rules cries poor and gets his/her house rebuilt by the government or the government takes the re-building as equity in their house.

Is that fair?

If not, what's different about what Joyce said?

In this terrible analogy, did the rebuilding of the country's economy depend on the bloke's house who had the long grass?

[Warragul]

Originally Posted by SRFred

Notice you left Gorton out of your list. Fair enough as he had some scruples and did fight in WW2.

As did Whitlam and Holt (Holt did not get past initial training).

[IsDon01]

Originally Posted by Dragun

In this terrible analogy, did the rebuilding of the country's economy depend on the bloke's house who had the long grass?

Are you seriously suggesting the rebuilding of the country depends upon one tiny, tinpot, poorly run, foreign owned airline that was close to bankruptcy before this COVID mess and will likely be bankrupt a within a year regardless of whether the government throws millions at their foreign owners or not?

Get a reality grip!

I was unemployed after the Ansett debacle. I get where these comments come from, I was there less than 20 years ago. Looking back though, the government baling out of Ansett would have been a bad idea then, and it would be a bad idea if they did it with Virgin today.

I empathise with employees of Virgin, I really do. Just like I empathise with those that lost their jobs when Holden closed their doors after sucking billions of taxpayer dollars, of your money, to prop up an industry that was always going to fail. It’s not your fault that you company has been run into the ground by a bunch of self-serving, incompetent, corporate psychopaths. As is always the case, those that caused the mess never suffer hurt they cause. Look at those that created the GFC. Most walked away with their corporate golden parachutes intact. The fact is though that throwing taxpayer dollars at a company to temporarily save it from going under is a bad idea. You would be far better off taking the hundreds of millions required and splitting that money up equally between the employees. That has far more economic impact than throwing good money after bad.

Put this mess behind you. Move on with your lives, as I had to in 2001.

[blubak]

Originally Posted by junior.VH-LFA

I've heard the 747 retirement has officially been brought forward, anyone able to confirm this?

Yes correct,last 747 flight arrives into sydney later today.
Word is 5 remaining er's have been bought by GE,hopefully somebody has the insight to let them continue flying well into the future.Very sad to see them go,really the end of an era.