VA pilots worried about employment 2021
That mentality is exaclty what needs to be put aside.
It's the business going foward that needs to be considered, not past mis management.
My speculation as an outsider is that a new VA will closer resemble the original company anyway.
I think it's nothing more than childish for AJ saying Qantas should get $4B+ if virgin get thier $1.4B. Some of the populous get goverment handouts that I dont because they NEED them. Just because my neighbour gets a dole payment doesnt mean I need to (yet)
It's the business going foward that needs to be considered, not past mis management.
My speculation as an outsider is that a new VA will closer resemble the original company anyway.
I think it's nothing more than childish for AJ saying Qantas should get $4B+ if virgin get thier $1.4B. Some of the populous get goverment handouts that I dont because they NEED them. Just because my neighbour gets a dole payment doesnt mean I need to (yet)
The only argument you can make for a VA bailout is that it will benefit Australian's with increased competition; without that, there is very little incentive for a bailout. It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out.
Regardless, the hurt is going to be real for all their employee's, and I wish everyone the absolute best of luck and fortune,
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It appears VAH are looking to raise funds by selling their unencumbered B777-300ERs. Based on what Etihad received for their B777-300ERs the best VAH could expect in the current climate is just USD30M per pop. Sad days to be even sadder later in the year. With both Airbus and Boeing suspending production of new aircraft until further notice this in theory will help support the used aircraft market.
I’m not doubting you, but I would be interested to read any first hand information. A quick google search didn’t show up any articles.
is entirely fair Qantas receive proportional support, VA shouldn't be allowed to end up in a better relative position because of government support
Remember Qantas is not Australian owned either (admittedly more so that VA). The relevance of a funding agreement cannot be limited by who owns most of the company, as at the end of the day nearly every employee, contractor, and supplier IS Australian.
All going to plan the loan is repaid and no harm done, or it's not and the goverment takes an equity stake of a size none of us know - perhaps more than half. All of a sudden VA will no longer be majority foreign owned anyway.
Of course the cards might all collapse anyway but if that is delayed a couple of years then in all likeliness the rest of the economy will be in a better position to absorb the fall out.
Even if VAH in its current form files for administration, the "mk 2" carrier thar rises from the ashes by the administrators may not actually carry the "Virgin" name. Purely to save on $$ licensing fees to Branson himself.
Whatever airline(s) rises from a VAH bankruptcy may be called something else instead of 'Virgin Australia'.
Whatever airline(s) rises from a VAH bankruptcy may be called something else instead of 'Virgin Australia'.
Evertonian
It is entirely fair Qantas receive proportional support, VA shouldn't be allowed to end up in a better relative position because of government support and end up on a level playing field because QF didn't get the same support (yes, overly simplified for sure, but you know what I mean)
SMH - Small cargo door restricts Virgin
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https://www.health.gov.au/sites/defa...?itok=y7fyOd1X
Thought I post this. About 24/02 if we closed all our international borders to everything all domestic airlines
would be operating today still in a better capacity than now. All aussies wanting to come back would need that 14 day isolation.
It would of saved millions of jobs. Now we know what to do next time.
Thought I post this. About 24/02 if we closed all our international borders to everything all domestic airlines
would be operating today still in a better capacity than now. All aussies wanting to come back would need that 14 day isolation.
It would of saved millions of jobs. Now we know what to do next time.
Selfish question, what should I do with 450k velocity miles?
Transfer, throw a dart at the calendar and book a flight, buy a piece of tat from the online store.. or sit tight?
Mjb
Transfer, throw a dart at the calendar and book a flight, buy a piece of tat from the online store.. or sit tight?
Mjb
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Unable to read the full AFR article If (IF?) Virgin does go under, could we have ANZA (Air NZ Australia) eventually creating a single Aus/NZ airline market?
Or is that too hard?
Or is that too hard?
Here is the article
The federal government is likely to facilitate the entry of a new carrier into the domestic market, rather than bail out Virgin Australia, should the struggling airline not survive the coronavirus crisis.
While the government would prefer that Virgin survived the economic crisis, it has no intention of acceding to the airline's request for a $1.4 billion loan.
Senior government sources told The Australian Financial Review that when the government insisted repeatedly that Australia must still have two strong airlines on the other side of the coronavirus catastrophe, that did not necessarily include Virgin.
It would not grant Virgin's wish for a $1.4 billion loan because it did not want to be saddled with an equity stake in a business that was already doing it tough before the virus crisis.
Neither did it want to create a precedent by stepping in to save a specific business.
"That is not our role,'' said a source.
Updated: Apr 2, 2020 – 7.12am. Data is 20 mins delayed.
View VAH related articles
Advertisement"Do we want two strong airlines at the end of this? Yes, we do.
"But support can't be specific for one business. It must be systemic.
"There comes a time when the government can't run every business around the country.''
We do not take sides. We make judgments on an economy-wide and industry-wide basis.
— Mathias Cormann
Should Virgin fail, the government would facilitate the entry of another carrier.
It is generally accepted that unless it secured extra capital, Virgin could burn through its cash reserves in three months. Rival Qantas could last for up to 11 months.
The government believed initial responsibility lay with two of Virgin's sovereign-backed co-owners, Singapore Airlines and Etihad.
So far, the government has announced about $1 billion in general support for the aviation industry, which largely involves waiving of fees and taxes, some of which, such as fuel excise, they are not incurring because they are hardly flying.
It also said Virgin could draw on the $1500-per-fortnight wage subsidiesannounced this week for workers who have either been stood down or who are still clinging on to their jobs at struggling companies.
As of 5pm on Wednesday, 452,236 businesses had applied for the subsidies under the $130 billion JobKeeper program. Parliament will sit on Wednesday next week to pass legislation for the program following an agreement struck between Scott Morrison and Anthony Albanese.
Virgin's listed retail bonds, issued late last year to fund the partial buy-back of its loyalty division, are trading close to levels investors say are equivalent to a recovery rate if they were to default.
But should the airline fail, "steps will be taken to get another carrier to enter the market'', a government source said. "Barriers would be lowered.''
Virgin's request for a $1.4 billion loan will not be granted. Edwina Pickles
Australia already has one of the most liberal markets in the world when it comes to allowing foreign competitors in.
An entrant would have access to Virgin's infrastructure such as hangars and terminals. There would be a ready-made workforce from which to draw upon and it would be guaranteed take-off and landing slots.
Federal government approvals would be largely regulatory, said an industry source.
The source said that if Virgin did go under, a likely entrant would be British budget carrier Ryanair.
On top of the general measures announced so far, Senator Cormann signalled more industry help that may or may not save Virgin but he specifically ruled out a loan or other specific support.
"We do not take sides. We make judgments on an economy-wide and industry-wide basis. We do not pick winners,'' he said.
"We make judgments based on what is good policy. That is what we will continue to do here. We do want competition between two strong and viable airline businesses on the other side.
"What that will look like on the way through, we will have to see how that plays out.
Senator Birmingham has stated previously that "not having airlines in Australia is not negotiable for a country like us and would cripple our recovery''.
-with Jemima Whyte and Lucas Baird
While the government would prefer that Virgin survived the economic crisis, it has no intention of acceding to the airline's request for a $1.4 billion loan.
Senior government sources told The Australian Financial Review that when the government insisted repeatedly that Australia must still have two strong airlines on the other side of the coronavirus catastrophe, that did not necessarily include Virgin.
It would not grant Virgin's wish for a $1.4 billion loan because it did not want to be saddled with an equity stake in a business that was already doing it tough before the virus crisis.
Neither did it want to create a precedent by stepping in to save a specific business.
"That is not our role,'' said a source.
RELATED QUOTES
VAHVirgin Australia
$0.090.001 year1 dayMay 19Aug 19Nov 19Feb 200.050.100.150.20Updated: Apr 2, 2020 – 7.12am. Data is 20 mins delayed.
View VAH related articles
QANQantas
$3.380.00May 19Aug 19Nov 19Feb 202.004.006.008.00Advertisement"Do we want two strong airlines at the end of this? Yes, we do.
"But support can't be specific for one business. It must be systemic.
"There comes a time when the government can't run every business around the country.''
We do not take sides. We make judgments on an economy-wide and industry-wide basis.
— Mathias Cormann
Should Virgin fail, the government would facilitate the entry of another carrier.
It is generally accepted that unless it secured extra capital, Virgin could burn through its cash reserves in three months. Rival Qantas could last for up to 11 months.
The government believed initial responsibility lay with two of Virgin's sovereign-backed co-owners, Singapore Airlines and Etihad.
So far, the government has announced about $1 billion in general support for the aviation industry, which largely involves waiving of fees and taxes, some of which, such as fuel excise, they are not incurring because they are hardly flying.
It also said Virgin could draw on the $1500-per-fortnight wage subsidiesannounced this week for workers who have either been stood down or who are still clinging on to their jobs at struggling companies.
As of 5pm on Wednesday, 452,236 businesses had applied for the subsidies under the $130 billion JobKeeper program. Parliament will sit on Wednesday next week to pass legislation for the program following an agreement struck between Scott Morrison and Anthony Albanese.
'Barriers would be lowered'
Virgin's cash position would improve with the JobKeeper allowance, and it was also seeking to improve liquidity by pushing for rent relief from landlords.Virgin's listed retail bonds, issued late last year to fund the partial buy-back of its loyalty division, are trading close to levels investors say are equivalent to a recovery rate if they were to default.
But should the airline fail, "steps will be taken to get another carrier to enter the market'', a government source said. "Barriers would be lowered.''
Virgin's request for a $1.4 billion loan will not be granted. Edwina PicklesAustralia already has one of the most liberal markets in the world when it comes to allowing foreign competitors in.
An entrant would have access to Virgin's infrastructure such as hangars and terminals. There would be a ready-made workforce from which to draw upon and it would be guaranteed take-off and landing slots.
Federal government approvals would be largely regulatory, said an industry source.
The source said that if Virgin did go under, a likely entrant would be British budget carrier Ryanair.
RELATED
How long have Virgin and Qantas got?
In recent days, Finance Minister Mathias Cormann and Trade and Tourism Minister Simon Birmingham have stressed the need for Australia to have two strong domestic airlines once the coronavirus crisis abated.On top of the general measures announced so far, Senator Cormann signalled more industry help that may or may not save Virgin but he specifically ruled out a loan or other specific support.
"We do not take sides. We make judgments on an economy-wide and industry-wide basis. We do not pick winners,'' he said.
"We make judgments based on what is good policy. That is what we will continue to do here. We do want competition between two strong and viable airline businesses on the other side.
"What that will look like on the way through, we will have to see how that plays out.
RELATED
Government set to reject Virgin's $1.4b opening gambit
"It is not our plan to take equity in an aviation business. But we are continuing to assess what appropriate supports, in a competitively neutral basis might be able to be provided moving forward."Senator Birmingham has stated previously that "not having airlines in Australia is not negotiable for a country like us and would cripple our recovery''.
-with Jemima Whyte and Lucas Baird
So its ok for the previous governments to give billions of dollars to car manufacturers during good times, but when everything goes to s^%t, they wont LOAN the money to Virgin, Qantas etc.
Little Irish F%^K got his wish. Asshole.
Little Irish F%^K got his wish. Asshole.
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The company's net worth is between $500-800m with daily stock movements. Why would the government loan them $1.4b, when they already have $4b in debt. In 2-3 years when Virgin don't pay it back, the government acquires a debt ridden company! Doesn't make sense to me.
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One reason they won't lend to airlines is the very example of the car industry above and the individual companies that received benefits. That was a total disaster and a waste of hundreds of millions dollars.
This would be the same.
"Competitively neutral" assistance is another matter altogether and would be absolutely reasonable, but I doubt even that would save VAH because of how it would be targeted and it wouldn't provide an immediate cash injection which is what this company desperately needs to survive over this period.
This would be the same.
"Competitively neutral" assistance is another matter altogether and would be absolutely reasonable, but I doubt even that would save VAH because of how it would be targeted and it wouldn't provide an immediate cash injection which is what this company desperately needs to survive over this period.