Wikiposts
Search
Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

JQ563 BNE-MEL 13/01/20

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 14th Jan 2020, 03:15
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... It's Permanent!
Posts: 4,290
Received 169 Likes on 86 Posts
the shortest jet flight record - repositioning a TAA B727 from YMEN to YMML
Does a circuit count?
Capt Fathom is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2020, 03:38
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Most locked down city in the world
Posts: 546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Don't forget via the star SHEED-ASUKI-34
Turnleft080 is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2020, 05:03
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: In a house
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Green.Dot
CC- I’m guessing spotter vs operator. Some of the stuff that gets made up on the spot on this site... 🤦🏼‍♂️3000hrs 320/321 and I’m pretty sure I would have found out about these “weight limitations on short sectors” that CC speaks of by now!
I’ll double you. However it’s been 8 years since I flew an A321.

However back of the barmat figures. 200+ punters is around 20T

Empty weights for a 321 are around 55T. (From memory they are a bit heavier than that). Landing weight from memory was around 77T.

Chuck on 3 tonne for your arrival fuel and there’s your landing weight.

You wouldn’t want to go Melbourne min fuel. Add the 40 min traffic holding that was NOTAM’d yesterday and you’re out of luck.
Blueskymine is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2020, 05:13
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: In a house
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by clark y
Sunfish,
To answer to your question, no, plenty of time in the holding pattern.
Hahaha and so true
Blueskymine is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2020, 07:59
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Posts: 2,468
Received 310 Likes on 116 Posts
Originally Posted by Blueskymine
I’ll double you. However it’s been 8 years since I flew an A321.

However back of the barmat figures. 200+ punters is around 20T

Empty weights for a 321 are around 55T. (From memory they are a bit heavier than that). Landing weight from memory was around 77T.

Chuck on 3 tonne for your arrival fuel and there’s your landing weight.

You wouldn’t want to go Melbourne min fuel. Add the 40 min traffic holding that was NOTAM’d yesterday and you’re out of luck.
But it’s the same for any flight, the landing weight is going to be approximately the same. Just because it’s a short flight doesn’t make it any heavier
morno is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2020, 08:20
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Empty weight of an A321 is 50T, no issues whatsoever.
ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2020, 09:43
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: In a house
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by morno
But it’s the same for any flight, the landing weight is going to be approximately the same. Just because it’s a short flight doesn’t make it any heavier
Yes, but when you’re up around the landing weight for a normal flight and you divert to a close destination like say Avalon, you can’t put much gas on for the recovery.

So the landing weight would have played a part in it.
Blueskymine is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2020, 09:52
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: In a house
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE
Empty weight of an A321 is 50T, no issues whatsoever.
Well call it 50T

230 punters = 23T

Company fuel would be 3T for arrival.

Chuck in flight fuel 1T.

traffic 1.5T

Suddenly you’re blasting off and needing to hold to land. Regardless of traffic.

The min weight of a 321 is 47500kg. With crew, catering, equipment, cans etc it’d be well over 50T.
Blueskymine is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2020, 16:54
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Blueskymine
Well call it 50T

230 punters = 23T

Company fuel would be 3T for arrival.

Chuck in flight fuel 1T.

traffic 1.5T

Suddenly you’re blasting off and needing to hold to land. Regardless of traffic.

The min weight of a 321 is 47500kg. With crew, catering, equipment, cans etc it’d be well over 50T.
going off old flight plans, a fully loaded A321 has ZFW of around 71T. Max LW is 77.8T

so you can arrived overhead with 6 tonne, around 2 hours endurance, no issues.

How do you think we carry tempo/alternate fuel??
ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2020, 17:18
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Victoria
Age: 77
Posts: 17
Received 6 Likes on 2 Posts
But I’m sure they would do the landing briefing
Flingwing47 is online now  
Old 14th Jan 2020, 22:07
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: In a house
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE
going off old flight plans, a fully loaded A321 has ZFW of around 71T. Max LW is 77.8T

so you can arrived overhead with 6 tonne, around 2 hours endurance, no issues.

How do you think we carry tempo/alternate fuel??
I’ve got 6000 hours on type. Anytime you diverted, the landing weight was always the issue when you gassed up for another go. As generally you flew around with a full pax load and fuel on arrival was always landing weight limited. Especially for any transcontinental or when you stretched it’s legs.
Blueskymine is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2020, 22:26
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... It's Permanent!
Posts: 4,290
Received 169 Likes on 86 Posts
We'll call it a draw shall we....!
Capt Fathom is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2020, 00:04
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: HKG
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Blueskymine
I’ve got 6000 hours on type. Anytime you diverted, the landing weight was always the issue when you gassed up for another go. As generally you flew around with a full pax load and fuel on arrival was always landing weight limited. Especially for any transcontinental or when you stretched it’s legs.
Exactly- landing weight will be the limiting performance factor on ANY short leg, whether it be 10 mins flying time, or 1 hour. Hardly limiting for a flight from YMAV to YMML even with Tempo holding...
Green.Dot is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2020, 00:37
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,253
Received 195 Likes on 90 Posts
Sunfish if you are doing the job properly there are obvious reasons why you can’t do your landing checklist before you takeoff. Doing your landing briefing before takeoff is an entirely different part of the operation. Haven’t done the sector for a while but ATC would issue the STAR into SYD when issuing the SID out of CBR. The sector from AVV to MEL is not a challenge for a competent crew. If it’s a ferry then you don’t even bother using the AP.
Lookleft is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2020, 09:46
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 751
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Blueskymine
Yes, but when you’re up around the landing weight for a normal flight and you divert to a close destination like say Avalon, you can’t put much gas on for the recovery.

So the landing weight would have played a part in it.
Rubbish!!!
The Bullwinkle is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2020, 13:25
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I’m going to have to go back to flight school.

Because I don’t understand how you are more landing weight limited on a short sector than a longer one. Surely you can gas to MLW at destination and arrive with the same fuel as on a longer leg, or do I need to go back to school?
Derfred is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2020, 13:41
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Perth
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Im sure loosing the passengers would just make the whole diversion easier for the crew, guessing they would need to wait for a new MEL Harmony slot, 40mins plus traffic holding and most likely 20 pax would want to come off in AVV as they live in point cook then need to find their bags that would take 40 more mins. The pax most likely got to Melbourne quicker than the aircraft did flying empty.
AHDOCHARRY is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2020, 14:16
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Angle of Attack
It’s MEL, basketcase of additional 1 hour holding should be mandated in the CAR’s just for this pathetic airport.
Not 100% au fait with ATFM in Oz now but with GDP and CTOTs running for Tulla, you still get 40-60 min holding???? That’s ridiculous.
I assume you’re CTOT compliant?
Are they over estimating the airport acceptance rate or underestimating the demand??
LapSap is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2020, 20:32
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: no fixed address
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A quick query for the Airbus 321 experts here.. what is the max taxi speed? Taxiing down Tango for departure runway 34R in SYD in my 737, and every knot less than 30 sucks the life out of me, but the drivers of these 321’s regularly sit on 15-20 knots.
VH-ABC is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2020, 21:12
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,674
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Could it be simply that a couple of professional pilots decided that "company offered fuel" offers a way to demonstrate their disgust?
Are they still in contractual dispute at Jetstar?

Melbourne sounds the perfect dysfunctional airport to remind management that engaged pilots are far more an asset than they like to believe...
Rated De is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.