Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

NSW burns but where is the 737?

Wikiposts
Search
Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

NSW burns but where is the 737?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 5th Dec 2019, 05:21
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Sydney
Posts: 42
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
NSW burns but where is the 737?

I read that the 737 Large Air Tanker can’t fly because CASA have not approved it to carry firefighter pax. It will be on the ground for the entire season. Unbelievable. This is red tape gone berserk. Will CASA take responsibility for lost property and (God forbid) lost lives that otherwise may have been saved?
Lazyload is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 05:50
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 11
Received 17 Likes on 6 Posts
It can still carry and drop water/retardant...

Parrot Pilot is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 05:50
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 4,294
Received 139 Likes on 63 Posts
Originally Posted by Lazyload
I read that the 737 Large Air Tanker can’t fly because CASA have not approved it to carry firefighter pax. It will be on the ground for the entire season. Unbelievable. This is red tape gone berserk. Will CASA take responsibility for lost property and (God forbid) lost lives that otherwise may have been saved?
Not quite.... It cannot carry firefighters from A to B. It can only carry the water and retardant and essential crew (eg pilots loadmaster etc). No pax.

Big difference. The red tape of which you speak prevents the aircraft which probably does not meet passenger certification requirements due to the nature of its modifications from carrying what would be non essential pax.
compressor stall is online now  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 06:15
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Age: 68
Posts: 1,913
Received 295 Likes on 124 Posts
It’s a fire bombing machine not a passenger transport vessel.

Plenty of GA charters ferrying everyone around inland. Most just fly airline ops. I had a group of 40 a few weeks back ML-SY.

Its usually easier to put to put them on airline ops. Melbourne to Sydney flight every 15/30mins.

Who should be moving them about is the Air Force with all these big A330s that sit around doing sweet F All. Too much procedural military bull$hit makes it easier to dump them on a loco.

Last edited by PoppaJo; 5th Dec 2019 at 06:30.
PoppaJo is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 06:15
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Doomagee
Age: 11
Posts: 721
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Essential service should go free of charge on any major.
Berealgetreal is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 06:22
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,674
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
When minutes count, CASA take months...
Rated De is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 06:36
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 3,071
Received 138 Likes on 63 Posts
I have read that CASA want flight attendants on board due to the number of passengers being carried. Can only assume under the N rego this was not an issue.
neville_nobody is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 06:39
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 46 Likes on 20 Posts
Originally Posted by neville_nobody
I have read that CASA want flight attendants on board due to the number of passengers being carried. Can only assume under the N rego this was not an issue.
In the US it’s 1 flight attendant per 50 pax.
havick is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 06:45
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A lot of firies have been chartered on regional flights in the past months. Great for getting them closer to some of the fires. So in the end, probably better to let the 737 continue bombing instead of paxing.
bazza_p is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 08:15
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Big picture. Men going to fight fires and risk their lives, What are the odds that they will get hurt on the way in the back of the fire fighting maggot because it’s not airline standard? Have a look at the way soldiers travel in the back of mil tpt on ops.
CASA and Oz appear rooted.
ernestkgann is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 08:27
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 1A
Posts: 8,551
Received 73 Likes on 42 Posts
In the US it’s 1 flight attendant per 50 pax.
As it is for approved pax ops here, Havick, in big jets, what's more!

Originally Posted by Lazyload
It will be on the ground for the entire season. Unbelievable.
"On the ground" or "can't carry pax"?
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 08:33
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Posts: 2,468
Received 310 Likes on 116 Posts
The Air Force has been transporting fire fighters around, and the 737 has been doing plenty of water bombing. Where’s the problem?
morno is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 09:23
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: All over the Planet
Posts: 868
Received 12 Likes on 5 Posts
Surely the Rural Fire Service would have fully investigated the possibility of pax carriage on this 737 before they signed on the dotted line? It’s a tad unfair to blame CASA.
Ken Borough is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 10:09
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Rockhampton
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 2 Posts
Would the B747 Air Tanker assist, why not bring it to Aussie?

Surely the B747 air tanker would make a worthwhile addition to the fire fighting effort.
Is there an existing Operator that would host the operator and assist with any CASA issues?.
Office Update is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 10:54
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Tana
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
(VERY offtop)

I'm a huge fan of finding non-passenger/cargo use for old airplanes, but... They seriously named it the Large Air Tanker? It's literally the SMALLEST jet-powered firebomber in the world!!! By that logic, Il-76 would be the Giant Air Tanker, the DC-10 fire bomber would be the DC-10 Humongous Air Tanker, and Boeing 747 Supertanker would be the Boeing 747 Big-Ay Air Tanker. Or maybe just call it the Compared-to-what Air Tanker?

And an on-topic.
Originally Posted by Ken Borough
It’s a tad unfair to blame CASA.
It's NEVER unfair to blame CASA even if, in this particular case, they aren't really doing anything blame-worthy... Or are they?
UltraFan is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 10:56
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ground
Posts: 75
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
It has been very busy for a long time, and will continue to be. Good job getting offended on Chinese whispers.

they’re are also Hercs, RJs and the VLAT too. All operational.
Jabberwocky82 is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 11:38
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: moon
Posts: 3,564
Received 89 Likes on 32 Posts
saw the 737 and Canadian Bae 146 working at Coffs a week or two ago. I came up by Qantas link charter and back to Vic by RAAF C17. It’s all working as it should. Latest advice is that the work is very hard right now. More teams went up today. May go again late next week if wife permits and fire situation calls for it. But that’s scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Sunfish is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 14:39
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Approaching the MAP
Posts: 66
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
The 737 has been flying just about every day all day long dropping retardant. People that are all bent out of shape that it isn’t carrying passengers don’t realize that you would have to remove it from the retardant dropping missions in order to transport passengers and it is much easier to use standard commercial transports instead. Right now Oz has the DC-10, the 737, a couple of C-130s, and an RJ that are flying retardant and removing the 737 from that role would have a large impact on the amount of retardant being dropped.

The pax outcry is based on either incomplete information or a lack of understanding of the process to get the 737 approved for passenger transport. When the airplane got its FAA certification, it included a 72 passenger standard interior. The contract that NSW has with the operator doesn’t include cabin personnel so that is something that will have to be sorted before CASA will issue a passenger carrying certificate. It’s only a question of time.
Mast Bumper is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 18:10
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Micks Place
Posts: 49
Received 11 Likes on 9 Posts
Originally Posted by Lazyload
I read that the 737 Large Air Tanker can’t fly because CASA have not approved it to carry firefighter pax.
Ironically, this is just a huge beat up.

​​​​
belongamick is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2019, 19:26
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kichin
Posts: 1,048
Received 694 Likes on 190 Posts
https://www.boeing.com/news/frontier...st/i_ids4.html

Shame we don’t use this system, excellent real world training/currency for our RAAFies.
gordonfvckingramsay is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.