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Mt Erebus Disaster 40th Anniversary

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Mt Erebus Disaster 40th Anniversary

Old 28th Nov 2019, 00:30
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Rest In Peace. I believe that there is a memorial service at Scott Base at the moment.
The perhaps presciently named peaks of Terror (l) and Erebus (r) McMurdo Station and Sound is off the RHS of the image.
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 01:23
  #102 (permalink)  

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This thread has become far too much emotion. Nothing will change history and certainly not some of the libelous posts that were in this thread.

Cool it - or the thread gets closed!
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 01:45
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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I did warn you Tailie.
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 01:57
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Despite the slurs he has lobbed at me over the last decade after relating my thoughts on various aspects of this accident, his truculent and opprobrious posts of yesterday and last night followed by the silence today does cause me to have some concern for his welfare today. To be so vociferous and dedicate so much time over the years posting on here, it would appear that he has some deep connection to this tragedy and is still dealing with it. I hope he can get the closure he needs.

Last edited by compressor stall; 28th Nov 2019 at 02:12. Reason: punctuation
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 03:00
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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The only good that will come out of this, 40 years on, is to keep the memory of this tragedy alive. That's the only way these people wouldn't have died in vain. Think about it, this has only made victims. Respect to the families and loved ones who lost someone on TE 901.
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 03:15
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Post 100# qanda

Post #100 by qanda - eloquent, mature, succinct and sane. Excellent comment. Best yet. Well done sir (or maíam).
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 03:59
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern apologises for Erebus disaster, 'the time has come'

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117...40-years-later


And a link to a transcript of the PMs speech: https://mch.govt.nz/prime-minster-de...erebus-apology
which also includes an apology from AirNZ Chair Dame Therese Walsh
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 04:10
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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I support the apology by Air New Zealand: Captain Collins, after all, was an employee of the company.

Does anyone know how to upload PDF files?
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 04:14
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Paragraph377 View Post
TWT, I am more than aware of Chippendales death. I was simply saying that ampan sounds very much like Mr Chippendale - rude, arrogant and obtuse. Out of decency I won’t say what I would like to say about Chippendale though. It’s a pity others aren’t as respectful to the departed Capt. Collins.

ampan, you sound very much like a former NZ labor politician from the 70’s who has an axe to grind with Capt. Collins over the pressure that the accident brought on the Muldoon Government. I hope I’m wrong.
I'll stand up and defend Ron. He was my tutor at University and one of the most honest men I have ever met in 30 years in Aviation. He had no axe to grind with anyone on any investigation. He reported what he found. You might not like what he said but his reports were factual and his Erebus report is still the ONLY factual legal document about the accident.

Did he tolerate idiots? No. He didn't think Aviation had any room for them. I tend to agree.

Try to argue with any of the facts in the report. They are all facts and none have ever been argued.

Killed by a kid who was late for work and was doing up his shoe laces while driving his car. Mounted the footpath and killed Ron instantly as Ron was walking home with the paper.

And people still send his widow hate mail on the Erebus anniversary. Grow up people. Ron told the facts as related directly to the accident. That was his job. The report is considered ground breaking in the world of Air Accident Investigation.
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 04:32
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Chippindale's problem was communicating his findings. There are some very strange parts of his report, and then there was the sentence stating that there was "no evidence" that the change to the co-ordinates misled the crew. It was ridiculous statement then and it's just as ridiculous now. But there was a background to the sentence. Trouble was, he made no reference to the background.
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 04:47
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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And there is also the misleading thought that it was "his" report.

His name is on the front and he had a large part to play but reports like this are a team effort.

When I sign out an aircraft after maintenance, it is my name that releases it for flight but I didn't do all the work. I'd be there for months if it was just me! I sign that it is airworthy on behalf of all those behind me who worked on it.

Just like Ron stood for all those who worked on the report.
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 05:40
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by noooby View Post
And there is also the misleading thought that it was "his" report.

His name is on the front and he had a large part to play but reports like this are a team effort.

When I sign out an aircraft after maintenance, it is my name that releases it for flight but I didn't do all the work. I'd be there for months if it was just me! I sign that it is airworthy on behalf of all those behind me who worked on it.

Just like Ron stood for all those who worked on the report.

Thats cool, I met Ron when I worked with the department. A good man carried himself in the most professional way.
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 06:14
  #113 (permalink)  
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"In particular, the Privy Council said, and I quote, ďthe Royal Commission Report convincingly clears Captain Collins and First Officer Cassin of any suggestion that negligence on their part had in any way contributed to the disaster. That is unchallenged.Ē

Those findings stood then, and they stand now. The pilots were not responsible for this tragedy, and I stand here today to state that again."

Prime Minister of New Zealand Jacinda Ardern. 28th November 2019.
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 06:31
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 3 Holer View Post
"In particular, the Privy Council said, and I quote, ďthe Royal Commission Report convincingly clears Captain Collins and First Officer Cassin of any suggestion that negligence on their part had in any way contributed to the disaster. That is unchallenged.Ē

Those findings stood then, and they stand now. The pilots were not responsible for this tragedy, and I stand here today to state that again."

Prime Minister of New Zealand Jacinda Ardern. 28th November 2019.

Where is this world going ? She was not even alive when this tragedy occurred she canít apologise for sins of our heroes. TOTAL. DISRESPECT
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 06:34
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by noooby View Post
And there is also the misleading thought that it was "his" report.

His name is on the front and he had a large part to play but reports like this are a team effort.

When I sign out an aircraft after maintenance, it is my name that releases it for flight but I didn't do all the work. I'd be there for months if it was just me! I sign that it is airworthy on behalf of all those behind me who worked on it.

Just like Ron stood for all those who worked on the report.
... actually his name is not even on the front, at least not on the copy in my possession, just once on Page 2. Anyway Chippendale Report sounds better than "REPORT No. 79-139"
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 06:40
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post

The navigator quoted in the podcast excerpt below was from the U.S. Air Force, not the Navy. If Lieutenant Knock's narrative given in the podcast is correct the radio call probably came after the crash had ended the CVR recording.
...

....
Fair points. It is a pity his narrative wasn't recorded immediately when it would've been more accurate, rather than nearly 40 years after the event.
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 06:42
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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In loving memory of 28 November 1979

The Ardern Government has taken a small step in the right direction. The 1979 Government of the day and Air New Zealandís CEO and Board were a disgrace. They alone tainted the countryís reputation for the past 40 years. An act of complete bastardry and dishonesty at the highest levels.

Today, 28 November 2019, I ponder in solitude about the lives of some dear friends and colleagues and how those lives may have turned out. Their deaths were unnecessary, but graciously fast. The Crew had an inkling for around 3 seconds, the rest of the souls onboard knew nothing. In the mountains of NZ I raise a glass of fine wine, light another cigar and painfully remember a day that I will never forget. From me, itís goodnight and farewell until next year.

In Godís speed.









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Old 28th Nov 2019, 06:48
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Paragraph377 View Post
...

And ampan, I doubt very much that you didnít realise Pip Collins was still around these days...
Pip was one of the daughters, Maria the wife. Mrs Mahon still around and also interviewed for the podcasts too.
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 06:59
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Paragraph377 View Post
The Ardern Government has taken a small step in the right direction. The 1979 Government of the day and Air New Zealandís CEO and Board were a disgrace. They alone tainted the countryís reputation for the past 40 years. An act of complete bastardry and dishonesty at the highest levels.

Today, 28 November 2019, I ponder in solitude about the lives of some dear friends and colleagues and how those lives may have turned out. Their deaths were unnecessary, but graciously fast. The Crew had an inkling for around 3 seconds, the rest of the souls onboard knew nothing. In the mountains of NZ I raise a glass of fine wine, light another cigar and painfully remember a day that I will never forget. From me, itís goodnight and farewell until next year.

In Godís speed.











Cheers n beers
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 12:22
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Dopey glorified schoolgirl
About the level of observation we've come to expect. I said back at post #3 this thread was a bad idea. Of all the Erebus threads this has reached a new low, thanks to one poster with his bile, invectiveness and libellous statements (I read all the posts prior to deletion). I can't fathom how he has not been banned, this thread is beyond the pall, and the likes of it I've not seen on PPRuNe.
More controversially, however, the Judge went on to find that witnesses from Air New Zealand had conspired to give false evidence to his inquiry. This led to his report being severely criticised by both Air New Zealand and the then Prime Minister. When the airline took judicial review proceedings, both the Court of Appeal and the Privy Council found the Judge’s findings of conspiracy and deception unsupported and contrary to the principles of natural justice.But what was lost in all this was the fact that no challenge was made to the Judge’s findings as to the cause of the accident. On the contrary, the Law Lords placed on record their tribute to the brilliant and painstaking investigative work undertaken by the Judge in the course of his inquiry. They said there was ample supportive evidence at the Judge’s inquiry for his conclusions about causation, and noted that his different conclusion from the Chief Inspector was based in part on new evidence before the Judge that was not available to the Chief Inspector.In particular, the Privy Council said, and I quote, “the Royal Commission Report convincingly clears Captain Collins and First Officer Cassin of any suggestion that negligence on their part had in any way contributed to the disaster. That is unchallenged.”
I've come to the conclusion that our poster is a relative of the briefing officer or the navigation officer, and is attempting to shine the spotlight away from their involvement.

This accident was seminal in showing James Reasons Swiss Cheese model in action, lack of training (never been to the ice previously), failure to follow SOPs by most if not all flights, airline culture, lackadaisical administration being just a few. Military flights were not permitted to overfly Erebus, it's a Strombolian volcano after all capable of throwing debris over 6,500 feet in hight ie to 18,950 feet, lava bombs 10 metres in diameter were known to go to 15,700. LSALT was 16,000, what was the airline thinking, military aircraft were not permitted to overfly Erebus, it's merely a demonstration of how out of their depth the airline was and the lack of planning involved. Why would you overfly Erebus? The military required crews to ride on three trips to Antarctica before flying themselves. I flew for many years with a chap who captained the first RAAF C-130 to the ice, he had his indoctrination with a RNZAF C-130 crew, on boarding the aircraft the Commander said "you can have the left seat" rather than the expected jump, and was absolutely gob smacked of the offer, but also with the instruction for him to run the show as he saw fit. Of course he had the backup of all the high experience in the right and jump seat, unlike ANZ crews.

A heartfelt salutation to all who have suffered, it's an event that has taught the professionals within the aviation industry much.

Last edited by megan; 28th Nov 2019 at 13:10.
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