NZ flight cancellations over Xmas, thanks to Rolls Royce
tdracer,
Spot on re the 3 or 4 engines....
In fact it was common policy to stagger the engines so none had same or similar times, just in case .. The bigger the turbo compound engines got the bigger the fireworks display when they let go.
Spot on re the 3 or 4 engines....
In fact it was common policy to stagger the engines so none had same or similar times, just in case .. The bigger the turbo compound engines got the bigger the fireworks display when they let go.
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These issues have been going on in one way or another for over two years. Rolls Royce have continually moved the goalposts plus new issues have arisen. In the meantime air nz have got rid of perfectly good 767s when they had ongoing 787 issues at the time. They then got lease 777s and again, have started getting rid of them before 787 issues fully resolved. All the talk now about getting 787 10s and getting rid of the 777 200 in 2022. Yes, new GE engines but who’s not to say they’ll have issues. Wouldn’t be releasing one more perfectly reliable 777 until all 787s run seamlessly. Company and accountants being tight! All they see are fuel savings re fleet composition. Not prepared to have an extra cent on the bottom line re 777s over 787 a moment longer than they have to. Customers and brand the losers. Meanwhile managers get bonuses
These issues have been going on in one way or another for over two years. Rolls Royce have continually moved the goalposts plus new issues have arisen. In the meantime air nz have got rid of perfectly good 767s when they had ongoing 787 issues at the time. They then got lease 777s and again, have started getting rid of them before 787 issues fully resolved. All the talk now about getting 787 10s and getting rid of the 777 200 in 2022. Yes, new GE engines but who’s not to say they’ll have issues. Wouldn’t be releasing one more perfectly reliable 777 until all 787s run seamlessly. Company and accountants being tight! All they see are fuel savings re fleet composition. Not prepared to have an extra cent on the bottom line re 777s over 787 a moment longer than they have to. Customers and brand the losers. Meanwhile managers get bonuses
The issues with the Package C engines, for the most part, is resolved/managed. The current issues with the TEN engines (which effect 4 of our 787's) was only communicated by RR a week ago (at best). And lets not forget, the TEN engines were touted by RR to be the fix for the Pack C issues. In reality, they're even worse.
Could the GE's have issues? Of course. Could the the Trent 800 engines (on our 772's) also have unknown issues? Hard to say. Does a 737-800 have cracked pickle forks?! Perhaps all 737 NG operators should have held onto their Classic 300/400's for an extra decade "just in case". There comes a point when holding onto old frames "just in case" is simply not viable. Especially when the Engine manufacturer sells you (and ever other Airlines) a lie that the newer version of an Engine has resolved the issues at hand. I guarantee, every 787 operator worldwide would happily operate a fleet of old, reliable 767's with the benefit of hindsight.
The lease 772's from Singapore got parked up in the desert. We still have the -300 lease from EVA. I doubt any 772's will get parked up anytime soon. With 8 orders for 787-10's and another 12 options... there's enough orders to start replacing RR 789's before retiring the 772's.
Imagine that... surely then Air NZ's line of "we have commercial agreements with RR" with regards to compensation go out the window and the lawyers get called in. It's already beyond a joke, if they start getting rid of 5 year old air frames (5 years as of 2019) it's time to nail RR to the wall.
Last edited by Slezy9; 19th Nov 2019 at 15:34. Reason: Typo
Imagine that... surely then Air NZ's line of "we have commercial agreements with RR" with regards to compensation go out the window and the lawyers get called in. It's already beyond a joke, if they start getting rid of 5 year old air frames (5 years as of 2019) it's time to nail RR to the wall.
Hogwash 
Even with the ongoing issues with the Trent (and others), the overall reliability of the latest generation of engines is an order of magnitude better than it was 40 years ago. You just notice it more because today few aircraft have more than two engines.
There was a good reason why 40 years ago, all long range aircraft had three or four engines...
Even with the ongoing issues with the Trent (and others), the overall reliability of the latest generation of engines is an order of magnitude better than it was 40 years ago. You just notice it more because today few aircraft have more than two engines.
There was a good reason why 40 years ago, all long range aircraft had three or four engines...
But the latest offerings have all had issues
RR - we know all about
PWh- PW1100G so bad that Qatar are switching to CFM Leap
GE - real problems with the 9X
SAFFRAN - had to pay Dassault $280 million due to their inability to get the "Silvercrest" to work
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I’ve been told that it’s fully possible to re-engine the 78 with GEs, it’s just expensive obviously including purchasing a new pylon. On the other hand an AirNZ exec told me that that was “never going to happen at AirNZ”
any idea why why that would be?
any idea why why that would be?
TD I agree over 20, 40 and even more so 50 years the main engine providers have been amazing in their ability to improve reliability and performance
But the latest offerings have all had issues
RR - we know all about
PWh- PW1100G so bad that Qatar are switching to CFM Leap
GE - real problems with the 9X
SAFFRAN - had to pay Dassault $280 million due to their inability to get the "Silvercrest" to work
But the latest offerings have all had issues
RR - we know all about
PWh- PW1100G so bad that Qatar are switching to CFM Leap
GE - real problems with the 9X
SAFFRAN - had to pay Dassault $280 million due to their inability to get the "Silvercrest" to work
Yes, Pratt is struggling with their GTF - something that doesn't surprise me in the least. But since Pratt has pretty much bet the farm on the GTF concept, they'll either figure it out or be forced out of the commercial engine business.
GE is looking quite strong currently - 'real problems with the 9X'? REALLY? You're going to criticize an uncertified engine that is still in the development stage and is at least a year away from entry into service because it's behind schedule? Welcome to the real world...
The LEAP has had an uneventful EIS (MAX aircraft issues not withstanding - the engine has been good). The GEnx had issues with Ice Crystal Icing (which some 30 year old engine designs have also struggled with) but those have been sorted - and the basic engine has been excellent with a shutdown rate around 1/200,000 hours (disclaimer - I don't have access to the latest data since I retired but I've seen no indications it's gone down hill since then).
There is a rather predictable shutdown characteristic for new engines after initial EIS. The initial shutdown rate isn't very good as certain teething pains occur - as much as they try, it's very had to predict and account everything that's going to happen in the real world. As those issues are worked out, the shutdown rate gradually improves until it plateau's - and it'll stay pretty steady around that number for many years. Then, gradually, the rate starts getting worse again as the engine find their way to second tier operators who don't maintain them as well, and things simply get old and wear out. Some very popular, currently very reliable engines had plenty of issues early on (GE90 and PW2000, and PW4000/49" immediately come to mind).
Mattyj, the 787 was designed for the engines to be 'plug and play' - not even the pylon should need to change between GE and Rolls. That being said, I don't know that the task of switching out engine manufactures was ever certified. Further, the LRU cost of a GEnx-1B or Trent 1000 is close to $20 million (USD) - changing out your fleet has a huge price tag, especially if no one really wants your old engines...
Last edited by tdracer; 20th Nov 2019 at 23:04.
