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Qantas’ search for female pilots has led to more workplace harassment - Quartz

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Qantas’ search for female pilots has led to more workplace harassment - Quartz

Old 7th Nov 2019, 07:37
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Originally Posted by DutchRoll View Post
The fact that "someone" would know is irrelevant to the original comment
You should re-read what I wrote.

No individual knows whether the quota affected them, but clearly some are there due to a quota, and some others also missed out due to not being the correct gender. No-one knows who it is, and they never will. Does it matter? Probably not.

I just think that when you start veering away from “best person for the job” and start recruiting based on “social responsibility”, you’re opening a can of worms. Imagine if Qantas said “we need to recruit more Catholics...”

Now, for the record, I see no difference between male and female pilots in terms of ability. Of those that I have flown with, some were great, most were good, and some were shite: just like the blokes. If we want more female pilots we should be actively encouraging them to become pilots so that they make up a greater percentage of applicants for a job, not just recruiting a greater number from a low percentage of applicants.

PS why would you stab your own eye. If you stab the captain we all get a promotion...

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Old 7th Nov 2019, 10:22
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Imagine if Qantas said “we need to recruit more Catholics...
Unlikely given AJ’s predilections...
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 18:09
  #63 (permalink)  
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After checking most of the other diversity boxes for decades in the U.S. the new progressive workplace campaign is for 'neurodiversity' i.e. recruiting folks with mental disorders. No, I'm not joking.

It's only a matter of time before corporate quotas for neurodiversity clash with medical requirements in pilot hiring in the socially engineered airline workplace.

From an article in today's news feed:

Designing a truly inclusive workplace is a messy task.

Heightened awareness of neurodiversity —an umbrella term that refers to the breadth of human neurocognitive functioning—has made that project more complex and all the more urgent.

Companies like SAP, JPMorgan Chase, Goldman Sachs, and Microsoft attest to the advantages of hiring workers diagnosed with autism, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), dyslexia, Tourette’s syndrome, anxiety, obsessive-compulsive disorder, depression, and schizophrenia. In proven cases, neurodivergent employees tend to have terrific capacity for creative problem-solving and greater attention to detail.


https://qz.com/work/1741745/how-to-d...eurodiversity/
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 19:33
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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There is no quota, there is a target. Recruitment decisions are based on de identified data. Perhaps the fact that a slightly higher percentage of female candidates are coming through then that currently training means they are stronger candidates?

Many current female pilots are mentoring those studying , actively visiting schools and encouraging girls. Perhaps that explains the increase also?

Leaving the dinosaurs’ comments aside (“men work, women have babies so they can’t possibly contribute equally” 😒 ) It’s great to read comments from those who’ve stood up to defend the rational perspective and try to talk some sense in to the vocal minority.

Given the lack of competition from motivated women at the time they got their jobs, it’s likely some of those minority wouldn’t have met the standard had their been the same number of women applying as today. I suspect deep down they know it.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 20:05
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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But what about quota for wimmin honey cart drivers!!

didnt tink so👎👎👎👎🤯🤯😡😡😡😡😡😡😡🍆🍆🍆🍆🍅💦
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 20:07
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Recruitment decisions are based on de identified data.
Not true. Did you make it up or did you just believe what someone else told you?
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 20:20
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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“A 20% recruitment "target" when the percentage of female CPL holders in Australia is low single digit, is a quota by any other name.”

No, its a target, a lofty one at that which the CEO has acknowledged is optimistic.

Many here misunderstand how QF propose to narrow the gender gap At no point have they had quotas and at no point have they proposed them.

Remember, the aim here for Qantas and any other airline on the planet is to alleviate the unfolding pilot shortage and a quota will not achieve this.

In fact, in the present market, a quota would undermine this aim.

The motivation is to expand the talent pool from which to draw from, not to prioritize women over men from the present lop sided pool of applicants.

How Qantas intends to grow the female side of the pool is anyones guess however I suspect they are coming to the same conclusion as other (most) airlines are that the biggest obstacle is the complete lack of visible female role models.

I dont know how far Qantas has progressed down the path in solving this however many airlines have become active in sending female pilots out to schools to discuss the career as an option with kids and to demonstrate that women can and do occupy pilot eats in airliners.

Others methods are being employed upstream to encourage women to participate in the industry and much has been written on the subject.

A quick scan of the internet reveals many articles on the subject of how airlines the world over are coming to the conclusion that increasing the participation of women and minorities is key to solving the shrinking pilot applicant pool.

“Forget these stupid quota ideas. Simply hire the best qualified person for the job.”

Correct, by increasing the participation rate of women airlines are growing the talent pool which makes it easier to hire the best qualified person for the job.

Previously when the industry was 100% male dominated, often the best person for the job was not permitted to even apply and thus the system discriminated in favor of men.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 20:57
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 73qanda View Post

Not true. Did you make it up or did you just believe what someone else told you?
Sigh. It certainly is true. Or did you make it up or believe what someone else told you?
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 21:11
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Do Qantas have a 20% target for female LAME recruitment - no.

Do Qantas have a target for more equality in check-in jobs where men are under-represented - no.

This is simply political agenda pushing and free PR - because if it were ACTUALLY about equality, the answer to the above questions would be yes.

You can’t fix discrimination by discriminating.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 21:14
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Slippery_Pete View Post
Do Qantas have a 20% target for female LAME recruitment - no.

Do Qantas have a target for more equality in check-in jobs where men are under-represented - no.

This is simply political agenda pushing and free PR - because if it were ACTUALLY about equality, the answer to the above questions would be yes.

You can’t fix discrimination by discriminating.
Eloquently said Pete.
It is what QF has become: A vehicle for social discourse, selling gym memberships and car insurance, with the odd manufactured crisis to make Little Napoleon seem big.

Last edited by Rated De; 7th Nov 2019 at 22:06.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 22:04
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Sigh. It certainly is true. Or did you make it up or believe what someone else told you?
Neither. I observed it.
CV photos, names, gender, Nationalities, hobbies, sports records, school records etc . Reference checks to determine ‘fit’ and ‘suitability’. In my opinion the process of recruitment is centred around someone’s identity.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 22:35
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Initially, the recruitment data was not de identified. The recruiters saw applicants of a certain gender being offered positions when they had ranked lower in the process. (This was only a small number). The pilot responsible for the recruiting data made some change that completely de identified the applicants. Shortly after, said pilot was told by HR to de-deidentify 🤯 applicants so that ‘targets’ could be met.

From my experience so far after 18 years in QF, until recently I’ve never flown with a female pilot I didn’t like, or didn’t get along with, and every single one of them deserved their position based on personality, knowledge and skill. Unfortunately, there are 1 or 2 new joiners that have taken it upon themselves to champion women’s rights to such a level that you do sometimes prefer not to speak at all in case you inadvertently say something which someone may find offensive. This is the absolute minority of people. In 18 years, as someone said above, with male counterparts I’ve often considered poking both eyes out with a blunt plastic fork.

moral of the story.....no one will get along with everyone...regardless of gender. So how about we just assume that everyone who got in did so based on merit. It’s easier. Sure, at times throughout QF’s long history, there are people who got in when ranked well down the list of applicants. How can you be so certain you weren’t one of them?
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 00:09
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Can we do away with this 'shrinking talent pool' boloney? QF hand out the 'thanks but no thanks' to a large number of applicants with solid experience, pre interview/sim, each hiring round. You'd think they were in the same boat as Queensland farmers going by the press releases.
Everyone gets that it's very competitive, so let's leave it at that.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 00:58
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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In the HR office of A Major Airline were 3 female pilots vying for one slot, and all have proven to be equal up till now. The HR genius decides to ask a question, as the Senior Recruiter looks on:
"What is one and one?"

First girl: "Two."

Second girl: 'Eleven."

Third girl: "It can be anything you want it to be."

The girls leave, and the HR genius talks to the Senior Recruiter.
"The first girl is straight-forward, says "two" and that is the straight-up answer. No mucking about.
The second girl is a lateral thinker, put the two ones side by side and you have eleven. Could be a really good problem-solver.
The third girl has a free-flowing thought pattern, you can use any method to get the problem solved.
Which one would you hire?"

Senior Recruiter: "The one with the big t**s".
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 01:00
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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’said pilot was told by HR to de-deidentify �� applicants so that ‘targets’ could be met’

In other words, HR rendering the recruitment role obsolete?
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 01:17
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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“Do Qantas have a 20% target for female LAME recruitment - no.”

Not sure about the actual target but yes they have been actively trying to up the participation rate of women in the engineering field.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 01:36
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Over the years, I have shared flight decks with the former Qantas Chairman's son, at least three different Chief Pilot's son's, sons and daughters of Senior Check Captains, sons and daughters of the 1990's Manager Pilot Recruitment (I think 3 are in the airline), a Director's love child, two son's of a Duty Dispatch Manager and so it goes on.

One or two, I would describe their flying as "agricultural" however they all passed initial training, all made it passed S/O to F/O and a lot are Captains now days.

Did some type of "positive" discrimination get all of these people onto an assessment day? Who knows.

Did they all have to stand on their own once in for assessment, and jump through the process like I did? Yes...

Do they hold their own as pilots? Largely, yes.

I don't see a lot of difference between that in the past and some type of weighting to increase the throughput of females in the assessment process - but they have to hold their own from there.

I'm on a type that gets a lot of the new recruits and my right seat usually changes soon into the flight with one of the two S/O's and I have found thus far the new recruits regardless of gender to be of a very high quality and standard.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 02:17
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jetstarpilot View Post
But what about quota for wimmin honey cart drivers!!

didnt tink so��������������������������������������

Intellectual genuis! Women have been lifes shit cart driver for a millennium.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 02:31
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post

I have seen both extremes. Women who leave work to have their baby and cannot get back to work quick enough, leaving their offspring in the care of a professional organisation not family. Then there are those that never come back because they love motherhood. Surely it is their choice? Some seem to be suggesting you can be in two places at once.
lololololol. Like I said , you can't make this shit up! You automatically slam the woman, what, the father had no say, he couldn't take unpaid leave and do the childcare? You prove my point Icarus, you automatically assume the woman is responsible for parenting and the man isn't, and that's the issue and it's wide spread throughout the community, women are EXPECTED to do it all and if they have children they are accused of "wanting it all'!
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 02:44
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by exfocx View Post

To the idiot who complained that quotas were discriminatory, guess what, that's what females have faced since forever.
Cool. So now let's do to men what happened to women and that will set the world straight.

Quotas are bs. They have been around in government departments since the 70/80s and have only become worse with time, with many incompetent people becoming Head of a Department due to their gender. Now we have them in a safety related career where the best person for the role should be employed, not the person who has the correct gender. I couldn't care less if that means that male to female ratio is 80:20 or 20: 80, this is about people getting the role because they are talented and right for it, not because they are male and female.
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