Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Steve Purvinas, legend

Old 8th Nov 2019, 03:28
  #241 (permalink)  
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Qantas lie, never, just a small error.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 03:30
  #242 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MickG0105 View Post
Where did you get that quote from? The SMH article doesn't say that. It says,

(My bolding)

This was the article this morning.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 03:50
  #243 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by j3pipercub View Post
Was just querying the as of what 'date and time' comment. Seems strange to request those details down to the date and time. As of this week, end of last week, sure. Why would you need that level of detail? Not trying to be an ass, just seems strange.
With up to 6-7 cycles per day, having a handle on when on a particular day we're talking about is helpful from an accuracy perspective. One aircraft, VH-VYJ, was approaching the 22,600 flight cycle mark. I was keen to understand whether as of this morning it had reached that number.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 03:57
  #244 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ALAEA Fed Sec View Post
The data can only increase....not decrease.
Yes, I understand that.

Originally Posted by ALAEA Fed Sec View Post
Very strange though that you are seeking such detail.
Really? I was looking at VYJ. The data showed that it was approaching the FAA's lower cycle count threshold of 22,600 cycles. I wanted to understand if it had reached that threshold yet. In order to determine that I needed to understand when the data was accurate to. Based on the information you've provided it has.

Originally Posted by ALAEA Fed Sec View Post
If you are leading a Qantas witch hunt to find those leaking information to me, don't waste your time.
That'd be no concern of mine.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 03:58
  #245 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Beer Baron View Post



This was the article this morning.
Thank you for that.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 06:08
  #246 (permalink)  
 
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I understand there is not currently an approved repair for this cracking. Is that correct?
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 06:42
  #247 (permalink)  
 
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Shit Steve, your game putting snap shots of 73 cycles up on PPRuNe, or providing them to the media?

Would Boeing be sending their own techs’ (or have reliable independent ones) out to verify the existence and extent or reported cracks, Jakarta perhaps?



Last edited by Iron Bar; 8th Nov 2019 at 07:23.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 06:50
  #248 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ALAEA Fed Sec View Post
The article as published this morning said 18,000. I rang the writer Patrick Hatch and yes, Qantas told him they had no aircraft between 18,000 and 22.600 cycles. He subsequently rang Qantas providing the cycles chart I have and they changed their statement. They had initially lied to him.

Where did it come from? Our members about 2 weeks ago when we were told the first crack had been found.
Well in the interests of integrity and journalistic independence, one might wonder what young Patrick Hatch is to do.
Where is the follow up story refuting Qantas assertions and providing the data showing that they misled the media, the shareholders and the regulator?

Where is Andrew David? Why hasn't he issued a sternly worded rebuttal?



For Patrick, an all expenses paid junket on the "research flight" lots of well timed stories, a real quid pro quo... The "research flights" generated a flurry of articles and then some well timed pieces outlining the "productivity roadblock" Little Napoleon faced.

Does he "risk" his go to guy status for Little Napoleon in the interests of journalistic integrity and publish a correction?


Michael West would.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 08:25
  #249 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Going Boeing View Post
Offshore maintenance "is always done to a price". In the late 1980's Qantas lost a lot of engineers because the Federal government wouldn't allow them to pay market rates (Accord). This meant that a number of B747's were sent overseas for heavy maintenance, the results were very poor so there was at least five different maintenance facilities used - most of them were major airlines. One was a United airlines facility at Oakland. I recall flying EBM after if returned from UA maintenance and we were delayed out of Sydney as the APU Bleed Air valve was U/S. Our engineers changed it and brought the dud part to the flight deck to show us. It was a dirty bronze colour (not the usual Aluminium alloy colour) and had no serial numbers on it. A cheap, non approved part had been fitted in place of the serviceable part that was there prior to maintenance. Our next question was how many other non standard parts were fitted to the aircraft we were about to fly.

The Dollar will always drive the quality of offshore maintenance - not the skill level.
Fair enough, I was not aware of those sort of instances. I do recall though that the original 747s were maintained by UA in SFO and there was never any complaints back in the 70s so that was really the basis of my assertion.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 09:19
  #250 (permalink)  
 
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Sounds to me that MickG is QF management.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 10:26
  #251 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
Sounds to me that MickG is QF management.
It makes me sadder than sad that I read that and think you might speak truth.

It is inconceivable to me that people who built Qantas could even have that ‘as an accusation’ levelled at them.

That it might be true, is another whole level.

Please let me be wrong.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 10:34
  #252 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
Sounds to me that MickG is QF management.
Good grief! It never ceases to amaze me how whenever anyone questions the anti-QF, anti-Joyce, anti-CASA, anti-ATSB (insert your own favourite anti-something here) mob, they're branded as management or a journalist or whatever else passes for what I'm sure sounds to you like something clever to say.

I'm retired! I have never worked for Qantas and, apart from having a couple of mates who fly for Qantas, I have no connection to Qantas whatsoever.

I know that considered and cogent thinking can be challenging but give it a go, try mounting an argument based on facts and logical reasoning rather than this petty ad hominen nonsense. Who knows, you might find that you like thinking!

Last edited by MickG0105; 8th Nov 2019 at 10:36. Reason: Typo
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 10:46
  #253 (permalink)  
 
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Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Just because you attack the question does not mean the questions are not valid.

For a retired person you have a very deep interest in tail numbers and cycles.

Please let me be wrong. Tell me Qantas hasn’t come to this to ‘prove’ safety that was once beyond reproach. And when I say beyond reproach, I mean that in an era when aircraft travel WAS risky it was ‘BEYOND REPROACH’.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 11:13
  #254 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by V-Jet View Post
Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Just because you attack the question does not mean the questions are not valid.
Okay, so that's not an example of the post hoc fallacy. The post hoc ergo propter hoc (literally 'after this, therefore because of this') fallacy is easiest described as just because this came after that does not mean that caused this.

In any event, it's entirely irrelevant to whatever point you were trying to make about the validity of questioning someone's background. A somewhat more relevant aphorism would be to 'Play the ball, not the man.'

Originally Posted by V-Jet View Post
For a retired person you have a very deep interest in tail numbers and cycles.
Yes, and? I have a very deep interest in a good many topics. That's the wonderful thing about retirement; you get to indulge those interests.

Originally Posted by V-Jet View Post
Please let me be wrong.
Good news, you are.

Originally Posted by V-Jet View Post
Tell me Qantas hasn’t come to this to ‘prove’ safety that was once beyond reproach. And when I say beyond reproach, I mean that in an era when aircraft travel WAS risky it was ‘BEYOND REPROACH’.
You fellows have a seriously inflated view of yourselves if you think Qantas needs to run some sort of dark ops, counter-campaign on PPRuNe.org.

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Old 8th Nov 2019, 11:24
  #255 (permalink)  
 
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You're a stooge.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 11:45
  #256 (permalink)  
 
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Nice reply, thank you.

Post hoc still seems relevant. You question the questions. Because of this, that does not necessarily follow. Fallacy is a good word to use. Cracks happen because of cycles or cracks are going to happen when they are looked for?

I don’t and didn’t question the background, or the man. Unless she has a demonstrable history of obfuscation, diffusion, deflection, lying and subterfuge. You write better than Alan so I suspect I think more highly of you. Competition in that arena however, is not strong. I merely questioned the questioning.

Given you are retired and have no interest in Qf at all (excepting you know a pilot or two) please provide the evidence that will allow me to sleep soundly in my reclining semi bed at 35,000’ that says Qf hasn’t stooped to verbiage to prove its safety culture. I have the deepest respect for anyone who works as an Engineer on jet fleets and though I’ve only met Mr Purvinas once (he didn’t know it at the time) his word on anything airframe related is better than gold to me. Saying ‘Good news - you are (wrong)’ just doesn’t quite cut it in the conversation we are having.

If ‘we’ (and I am so far from ‘we’ as to be laughable) are countering a ‘dark counter campaign’ then surely it would be all too easy to debunk? Given it would be so easy, please debunk.

Steve’s given what I see as very credible evidence of cycles/tail numbers etc. It’s clearly wrong or upsetting you deeply. Obviously you have a counter argument.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 12:14
  #257 (permalink)  
 
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He is not who he purports to be, company stooge.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 12:40
  #258 (permalink)  
 
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So where did we end up on the whole 'do you stand by your calls to ground the fleet' question? Did Steve ever answer and is Mick still asking the question?
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 19:30
  #259 (permalink)  
 
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I've never moved from the "ground your fleet" question. You can see this in my request to the FAA to amend the AD.

therefore all aircraft need to be checked immediately
This call applies to all aircraft in the world. The checks take an hour at most. It is not much of an imposition.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 20:01
  #260 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ALAEA Fed Sec View Post
It is not much of an imposition.
It is if they find something.
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