Mt Cook and Air Nelson contract
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Mt Cook and Air Nelson contract
New contract tabled combining the two airlines into one. General concensus seems barely contained glee for the Nelson pilots and barely suppressed rage among the Cook boys and girls. How are those affected feeling about this?
Last edited by clemfandango; 11th Sep 2019 at 22:54. Reason: Grammar.
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I think it depends which ATR driver you ask. I think its decent, contract protections are well worth a small trade off in transport allowance etc. The term B scale has been thrown around, which shows a lack of understanding of the concept. A B scale salary would never have the possibility of increasing to the grandfathered ATR rate with the fleet changes adjusting the blended rate. What are your thoughts on it?
I’m no longer in the Link group but as an outsider looking in I find it hard to understand what the benefits are for the Pilots to combine the seniority lists. Can someone please explain what they are? Does big brother think it will help retain the Link Pilots with the promise of a jet job in the future (new course plan came out a few weeks back and everything is slowing down big time). With the issues the training department are having with the guys coming across to fly the jets there will soon be a sim ride and interview to assess suitability again.
If I was a new joiner today, I’d get my time up on the ATR/Dash and jump to Virgin/Jetstar/JetConnect for a bit of experience then back to AirNZ. I understand there is a stand down period if you go that avenue but I’m pretty sure you’d get an interview well before your number comes up on the jets. Average retirements per year is currently 20-30 a year. How many years is it for a new joiner til they get to pole around a 320 or become a S/O on a wide body. Do the maths. Good luck.
If I was a new joiner today, I’d get my time up on the ATR/Dash and jump to Virgin/Jetstar/JetConnect for a bit of experience then back to AirNZ. I understand there is a stand down period if you go that avenue but I’m pretty sure you’d get an interview well before your number comes up on the jets. Average retirements per year is currently 20-30 a year. How many years is it for a new joiner til they get to pole around a 320 or become a S/O on a wide body. Do the maths. Good luck.
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Swine lips.
Seems like classic divide and rule to me. Air NSN clearly frothing at all the gains and the Cook guys feeling gypped at their own meagre increases(losses in some cases) after months of showy promises. Bedlam if it doesn’t go through. I saw the contract today and it most certainly is a b scale obfuscated with some ‘blended’ bull**** that might take years to get in the ballpark. You’d be ripping off future hires no matter how you sell it to yourself. Lipstick on a swine.
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I’m no longer in the Link group but as an outsider looking in I find it hard to understand what the benefits are for the Pilots to combine the seniority lists. Can someone please explain what they are? Does big brother think it will help retain the Link Pilots with the promise of a jet job in the future (new course plan came out a few weeks back and everything is slowing down big time). With the issues the training department are having with the guys coming across to fly the jets there will soon be a sim ride and interview to assess suitability again.
If I was a new joiner today, I’d get my time up on the ATR/Dash and jump to Virgin/Jetstar/JetConnect for a bit of experience then back to AirNZ. I understand there is a stand down period if you go that avenue but I’m pretty sure you’d get an interview well before your number comes up on the jets. Average retirements per year is currently 20-30 a year. How many years is it for a new joiner til they get to pole around a 320 or become a S/O on a wide body. Do the maths. Good luck.
If I was a new joiner today, I’d get my time up on the ATR/Dash and jump to Virgin/Jetstar/JetConnect for a bit of experience then back to AirNZ. I understand there is a stand down period if you go that avenue but I’m pretty sure you’d get an interview well before your number comes up on the jets. Average retirements per year is currently 20-30 a year. How many years is it for a new joiner til they get to pole around a 320 or become a S/O on a wide body. Do the maths. Good luck.
The career pathways initiative is definitely just a showpiece from the company to stop regional pilots leaving the group and only benefiting a certain few as it currently is. Some of which are treating it as a holiday and subsequently failing the training.
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Seems like classic divide and rule to me. Air NSN clearly frothing at all the gains and the Cook guys feeling gypped at their own meagre increases(losses in some cases) after months of showy promises. Bedlam if it doesn’t go through. I saw the contract today and it most certainly is a b scale obfuscated with some ‘blended’ bull**** that might take years to get in the ballpark. You’d be ripping off future hires no matter how you sell it to yourself. Lipstick on a swine.
I don’t know which ‘Cook’ guys you’re talking to but is definitely not the only view held within the ranks. The guys who have been around a while clearly stated we want more time at home and roster/contract improvements. Has that occurred? Well you have the contract. I’m sure you can make your mind up.
Have you noticed who the new hires are going to be? Did you read the bit about ‘graduate pilots’? Once that’s approved by CAA, thats where the vast majority will be coming from. Do you have an issue with the remuneration that they’ll receive for the first year or so?
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The benefit is becoming employed by Air NZ. It’s that simple. Both the Nelson and Cook AOC’s are going to Air NZ in Nov and early next year. Without merging into one regional group within Air NZ both airlines will operate under service agreements with Air NZ aka contractors aka Jetconnect.
The career pathways initiative is definitely just a showpiece from the company to stop regional pilots leaving the group and only benefiting a certain few as it currently is. Some of which are treating it as a holiday and subsequently failing the training.
Aren't Mount Cook and Air Nelson subsidiaries atm anyway? Very much like Jetconnect?
I haven’t seen the contract, only the new payscales, and I do think it’s a bit strange to have a blended rate. At Air New Zealand, we have a blended rate on the 777 to allow for -200/300 variants, the same will most likely occur for the 787 when we operate both -9&10 variants. This is because Pilots on type actually operate all variants. We don’t, for example, blend the A320 rates with Widebody rates just because they’re on the same AOC, so why do it for the links?
I appreciate there’s a bit of a first day lottery between fleets when joining the regionals but the same is true at Air New Zealand. If there’s a combined regional seniority list, then surely pilots can move between fleets as vacancies and seniority allows?
I appreciate there’s a bit of a first day lottery between fleets when joining the regionals but the same is true at Air New Zealand. If there’s a combined regional seniority list, then surely pilots can move between fleets as vacancies and seniority allows?
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Given the "success" of said "seniors" in the flight librarian role, how do you think they'd go direct into the left seat?
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For someone across the pond currently going through the interview process (I'm aware where this question is being asked), what sort of time period are we talking about for progressing to a jet from link?
Sure a jet is not the be all to end all, but at the same time it's nice to know what could be given time.
Sure a jet is not the be all to end all, but at the same time it's nice to know what could be given time.
Over 10 years if you join the links now to be a second officer on the jet
The ad says type rated dash and ATR pilots. No mention of time on type. So they want you to pay for your own rating? Or are they just trying to poach people from Qlink and Virgin?
They wouldn’t have a wide body command yet. Current crop of 787 skips have been 24 years! Your point is noted though
Last edited by fly real fast; 14th Sep 2019 at 21:32.
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Very much like Jetconnect until Jetconnect transferred their ‘feet’ of 737’s to Qantas and switched to VH rego’s. They’re no longer a subsidiary airline but solely employ pilots and flight attendants to operate Qantas services. Not in either Cook or Nelson’s interest to replicate that.
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A few can’t even get through the IPT let alone pass a Jet command check, I don’t think we need to worry
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I believe Air NZ ALPA members are shortly voting on an amendment to the CEA which tightens the wording to prevent the thought of any such PG. But we won’t let that get in the way of a good yarn....
Last edited by KiwiAvi8er; 16th Sep 2019 at 02:58. Reason: Typo
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For a Q driver that is directly affected, I am all in really for this contract. Yes i wish the pay divide was addressed as im still earn $12k less than an FO at the same level flying the ATR and skippers are still earning a lot less. The blended scale that will be adopted has its issues but it is what it is, new emoyees dont have to sign it if they dont want the job. Eventually when a certain percentage of the fleet is mostly ATR then we migrate to the ATR payscale that is kept for current atr pilots. Conditions are good, security is good. Long term its good. If this doesnt get passed I dont like the idea of the alternatives from big brother ie: possible service level agreement... Is it a threat not really its just the way it goes with bith flerts joining the Air NZ AOC. With this deal everyone is still getting more money (not much more but its still a rise) and good conditions
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You’re right. No need to worry. You’ll know as well as anyone that the seniority between Jet and Regional isn’t merging, nor was that ever proposed. Added to the bottom was the initial aim.
I believe Air NZ ALPA members are shortly voting on an amendment to the CEA which tightens the wording to prevent the thought of any such PG. But we won’t let that get in the way of a good yarn....
