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Mt Cook and Air Nelson contract

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Mt Cook and Air Nelson contract

Old 9th Oct 2019, 02:32
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: The Couch
Posts: 81
So it's the ALPA President that ruffled your feathers?
Nope, it was the regional admin head who said that the majority of the GROUP were onside with the concept, and pitched that as a fait-accompli to the ATC-ers. They should not be allowed to put out untruths to an unaffected group within the union, who will have no idea, nor care of the impact. ATC as part of the Airline PILOTS Association is an anathema, I understand why it is in a small country like ours but they effectively become a bloc to lobby so that
We see no room for factional, orchestrated personal agendas
can be advanced.

There won't be another Eagle debacle given you have a RSL - just another "make-weight." #RSL=jobsecurity

On to the sim ride, having a six monthly sim isn’t specific to Air NZ Pilots!! So that’s not the issue
only that it was, "why should i have to do a sim" as part of the interview was the common refrain? "I'm entitled"...

the old guard who have never carried out an assessment/interview or sim are already in your ranks.
Yep, they flew planes that landed on water and got shot at during Vietnam. Relevance? That was then, this is now. Name another job anywhere in the world where you get a job without an interview? Oh, but the Air Force and ex-Cathay Captains should still do them aye?

How would you better off the "old way"? Well you would not be waiting 10 years for a turboprop command, unable to progress to the AirNZ job you covet so much as you sit in the RHS (or barely into the LHS) while those above you put in an EOI just because "it's the way the game's played", with no real motivation to upsticks and move, nor do an Airbus rating. It's likely you would also make a better fist of the process and not put a massive target on everybody behind you...If you were motivated, not entitled and passed the interview I guarantee you, you would be in sooner than you now will. But have it your way, I'm sure the company isn't 4 steps ahead of you, that cadets into your operation won't put downward pressure on your COS, that in a bust cycle the company won't require a "re"-interview of those waiting 3,4,5 years, and in a boom cycle they'll absolutely detrimentally decimate their own domestic operation in order to keep those disloyal "externals" out and take all of you forthwith.....
RubberDogPoop is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2019, 04:27
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 139
It's always good to see this debate start after the votes happened
Lindstrim is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2019, 05:10
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: New Zealand
Age: 37
Posts: 19
Man, I can’t see why so many of you seem to be in such a rush to get into a jet!? Must be a generational thing!😂 Yes there are quite a few F/Os that have joined the links since the RSL was voted through, but for the majority of them joining with some of their experience worrying about when you’ll get a jet job should be further down the priority list.........
Terrorhawk81 is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2019, 05:33
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ardmore, New Zealand
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by Lindstrim View Post
It's always good to see this debate start after the votes happened
They’re not debating the RANCAP though so the fact voting closed on that’s not an issue. Career pathways, which did have it’s own thread on here is what’s getting bashed to death.

Taking contract advice from people with a see through agenda will clearly put you in good shape though
KiwiAvi8er is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2019, 05:46
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ardmore, New Zealand
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by ElZilcho View Post


In 6 years at Air NZ, I’ve averaged about 20 slots per year on seniority. Even at 80:20, how long will it take number 600 on the RSL to see a Jet?


Being last on a list of 600 is going to take forever to get on the company jet fleet regardless, I'm sure most of them plan on getting an ATPL and leaving if they need to expedite themselves in to a jet.

Lets not beat around the bush, the “Job security” was sold on the back of Eagle by a bunch of Senior Link Pilots to the juniors who didn’t know any better. Most (if not every) recently hired Link Pilots I’ve flown with have admitted they dodged a massive bullet getting hired before RSL came into effect... now that they’ve done the math.
Shock horror, guys who were hired just prior to the RSL process are happy they got in before it changed. That isn't a startling revelation....

Before externals were hired in droves, Link pilots had their turn, amazing how quickly people forget that... when Link Pilots we’re getting interviews as soon as their bonds were up. Some with as little as 6 months Command time.... others with none!

Just wait until the next expansion (Jet or Link)... we’ll see just how much loyalty is worth when the company is faced with parking aircraft.

A group of tired Link Pilots who can’t pass a jet type rating and require “stress leave on MBF” got their cake, so who cares about the next generations aye?
How many haven't passed a type rating out of interest since you keep bringing it up? I know of one person.....there's nothing like a stereotype and innuendo though.
KiwiAvi8er is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2019, 05:58
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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Originally Posted by KiwiAvi8er View Post
Being last on a list of 600 is going to take forever to get on the company jet fleet regardless, I'm sure most of them plan on getting an ATPL and leaving if they need to expedite themselves in to a jet.



Shock horror, guys who were hired just prior to the RSL process are happy they got in before it changed. That isn't a startling revelation....



How many haven't passed a type rating out of interest since you keep bringing it up? I know of one person.....there's nothing like a stereotype and innuendo though.
Some cold hard truths seem to hurt a wee bit do they? Let's hope the RSL works and keeps you far from jet for years to come.
Kittykat2704 is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2019, 06:16
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ardmore, New Zealand
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by Kittykat2704 View Post
Some cold hard truths seem to hurt a wee bit do they? Let's hope the RSL works and keeps you far from jet for years to come.
We’ll see. It must have been painful having a start taken away from you with the lockout period coming in to force?
KiwiAvi8er is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2019, 06:21
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: I'm a wanderer
Age: 39
Posts: 394
Wow, from an outsider this is starting to sound a lot like some jet pilots giving the impression they are gods because they have the jet job and the turboprop guys don't, therefore all turboprop guys don't deserve the job. While the turboprop guys are throwing their toys out of the cots because even or though the planes are painted the same, wear the same uniform and soon to be under the same AOC, should be recognised as part of Air New Zealand.

Meanwhile I'm sure the HR types are rubbing their hands in glee, why have 1,600 pilots all on one side (which would be an awesome force to be reckoned with when it comes to negotiating) against just us. When they can divide them all and let them fight amongst themselves.

Keep it up guys, I'm enjoying the entertainment.
empacher48 is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2019, 06:35
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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Posts: 12
Originally Posted by KiwiAvi8er View Post


We’ll see. It must have been painful having a start taken away from you with the lockout period coming in to force?
😂 I'm not too sure what your angle is here. 1 a lockout period is not applicable considering I've never stepped foot into a link flight deck. 2 the arrogance is unbelievable.
Kittykat2704 is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2019, 09:20
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Lalaland
Posts: 24
I can’t see why so many of you seem to be in such a rush to get into a jet!?
Lol, seriously? Money dude. The new link salary that old mates voted through ain't going to pay the mortgage in Auckland/Wellington.
dctPub is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2019, 23:54
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Enzed
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Originally Posted by dctPub View Post
Lol, seriously? Money dude. The new link salary that old mates voted through ain't going to pay the mortgage in Auckland/Wellington.
I don't know how the salary has ever measured up with respect to Auckland/Wellington mortgages. However I do know basing Link crew in these cities has never been a recipe for keeping pilots at the Links. Why would you want to live in either place on a turbo prop salary when you could earn a jet salary? The move a few years ago to shift away from regional bases was a very dumb idea.
27/09 is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2019, 23:55
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Originally Posted by empacher48 View Post
Wow, from an outsider this is starting to sound a lot like some jet pilots giving the impression they are gods because they have the jet job and the turboprop guys don't, therefore all turboprop guys don't deserve the job. While the turboprop guys are throwing their toys out of the cots because even or though the planes are painted the same, wear the same uniform and soon to be under the same AOC, should be recognised as part of Air New Zealand.
Got it in one.
27/09 is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 22:10
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Perth
Age: 33
Posts: 1
I believe these issues go a bit deeper than simply having external Jet Pilots from other carriers getting the jobs in Air NZ instead of the Link Pilots. If it were as simple as that then it would have ruffled a few Link Pilots feathers but we wouldn't have seen the retention issues that has been experienced over the last 3-4 years.

The first problem was the decision to close the regional bases. We saw the Napier Q300 base closed with forced moves for all involved, the remaining regional bases were all told "you're on borrowed time and will be next".

The only bases on offer for all new hires, and new commands was AKL,WLG and if you were lucky CHC. That was it.

The second problem was the introduction of the new schedule in the later part of 2016 which instantly saw time away from base skyrocket. Some Pilots were doing 280-300 hours every 28 days capture time and going away for 2-3 nights at a time. Due to the scaling back of all regional bases through natural attrition allot of the overnights were in places where there was a base.


The expansion of Mount Cook and the Jet fleet simultaneously meant that there was no choice but to take external Jet Pilots from other operators. This created a situation where there was no negative effect to leave the Links - better pay which was important for the main cities, better lifestyle and probably a quicker route to Air NZ Jet anyway.

The merger and the reintroduction of regional bases is definitely a good thing, but it think it needs to go a step further. Open up regional bases in more places similar to the old Eagle footprint, this will allow Pilots to live pretty much anywhere (within reason), the more career driven ones will naturally take commands in the less desirable bases and move onto the Jets sooner, the lifestylers will stay in the regions and wait for their command there.

More bases means less overnights and more day duties which reduces the time away from home for everyone. Keep the 1 year Left seat requirement to qualify for Tag and Release on the Jet Fleet. Do that and you will ensure even number 600 on the list will probably stay, because if someone way down the list gets a quick command in a main centre then you'll find they won't be number 600 in line for a Jet job as they will jump all the ones choosing a lifestyle base over career progression.
kiwipilot1 is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 23:52
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: new zealand
Posts: 1
Still cannot understand why alpa and the pilots have ratified this New contract. Defies belief. Firstly all incoming ATR pilots being payed substantially less then existing pilots on a crappy blended rate. From what I’ve seen, up to $10,000 difference in the f/o ranks and up to $25,000 in the captain ranks. Yes, this blended rate will eventually disappear when the dash disappears. But how long will this be. Adds up to a lot of lost income in a short space of time. And secondly, introducing an even lower graduate pilot salary into the contract.this to me goes against everything that the union and pilots should be standing for. No one should be worse off than before. There was already a starting salary in the links. No need to negotiate a c scale into the contract! When the company tried to introduce a graduate pilot salary into the jet fleet they were told bluntly from members, no way in hell. We have a starting year 1 salary in the contract thank you very much.
zinny is offline  
Old 9th Nov 2019, 10:31
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: aus
Posts: 5
What an Ignoramus

Actually, the weight size cost wah means that the Q300 makes a shit load more money than the Air NZ 787 !!
you dipstick




Originally Posted by go123 View Post
Unfortunately the Q300 is a smaller aircraft that doesn’t make the company as much money, simple economics, been that way since it all began
yellowelly is offline  
Old 9th Nov 2019, 10:37
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: aus
Posts: 5
Mate...
Have you forgotten how NZ aviation works ?
yellowelly is offline  
Old 9th Nov 2019, 10:40
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: aus
Posts: 5
Mate,
Obfuscated only to uneducated like you.
Are you reading the same contract ******** ?
Really

yellowelly is offline  

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