Virgin Australia : 315 Million Loss - How long can they survive?
I’m referring to the comment that they could kick off Sunrise with them. If the older 777’s can do those distances, why are QF waiting for Boeing (discounting Airbus at the moment) to get the 777X to do those distances?
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,674
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Share buy backs provide a far better return...for appropriately "incentivised" insiders.
On a side note, could someone explain the reasoning behind parking the ATR fleet and then getting Alliance to operate the flying? I understand the ATR leases were overly expensive, but surely its better to fly the aircraft rather than pay the lease while it's backed against a fence and simultaneously pay Alliance for their services.....??
They are unable to crew them, no takers! You can’t blame the new guys, knowing you could be stuck on the fleet for a long time. They will only allow 10% of the ATR pilots to transition to B737 per year. It was MD’s answer to stabilise the fleet. I think it may have backfired.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 465
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They are unable to crew them, no takers! You can’t blame the new guys, knowing you could be stuck on the fleet for a long time. They will only allow 10% of the ATR pilots to transition to B737 per year. It was MD’s answer to stabilise the fleet. I think it may have backfired.
Right now the 787 is too small for Santiago, hasn’t got the etops for joburg (and is too small) and the Japanese don’t want the A380 in Haneda,
Last edited by Blueskymine; 2nd Sep 2019 at 02:28.
Morno, reduce the pax load and the 777 will do east coast oz to New York or to London ok.
it will do it at 28-35000 ft but it will do it!
the pax load would be a fair bit lower than now and no freight, but it would be a way to dip the toe into the market I guess.
the A330-200 can and has done Europe to Melbourne direct, and can do it with about 35-40 punters. Obviously not enough to make a quid.
it will do it at 28-35000 ft but it will do it!
the pax load would be a fair bit lower than now and no freight, but it would be a way to dip the toe into the market I guess.
the A330-200 can and has done Europe to Melbourne direct, and can do it with about 35-40 punters. Obviously not enough to make a quid.
It’d be interesting if someone got on the phone and offered the entire 777 fleet (and pilots during the establishment phase, and then seniority where it took them) to Qantas. They’d be able to cull the 747 operation early and use the VA 777s to get the sunrise operation up and running.
The 777s would also be ideal for Haneda and Joberg.
The 777s would also be ideal for Haneda and Joberg.
Redundancy or a job. That’d be what it would boil down to.
VA will probably offload their Longhaul jets. It’s just a question of when.
Qantas is expanding in that space. With probably/possibly the equipment VA are using.
Qantas has done this in the past. Ansett 767 Pilots worked in previous rank for a period in the Qantas uniform. They then had to apply for their jobs and join the company on the bottom of the list. I’d imagine with a 2-3 year contract for the EIS phase, and number on the bottom of the list, once they lost their 777 seat, they’d still find suitable seats with a reasonable income elsewhere in the fleet. Year 3 pay as an A380 SO would probably pay the same as a VA 777 FO. (With overtime). A QF 737 FO would be close if you’re working and chasing hours.
At the end end of the day, if QF got the whole shebang cheap, it’d be a great way to kick it off. And help out a mate. If it were done sensibly, I’m sure the crews and unions would support it too.
VA will probably offload their Longhaul jets. It’s just a question of when.
Qantas is expanding in that space. With probably/possibly the equipment VA are using.
Qantas has done this in the past. Ansett 767 Pilots worked in previous rank for a period in the Qantas uniform. They then had to apply for their jobs and join the company on the bottom of the list. I’d imagine with a 2-3 year contract for the EIS phase, and number on the bottom of the list, once they lost their 777 seat, they’d still find suitable seats with a reasonable income elsewhere in the fleet. Year 3 pay as an A380 SO would probably pay the same as a VA 777 FO. (With overtime). A QF 737 FO would be close if you’re working and chasing hours.
At the end end of the day, if QF got the whole shebang cheap, it’d be a great way to kick it off. And help out a mate. If it were done sensibly, I’m sure the crews and unions would support it too.
Qantas' Project Sunrise is about flying SYD-LHR and SYD-JFK direct (ie non-stop for about 20 hours). Are you sure VA's B777's can do that with a viable commercial load? If so why are QF going through the process of getting Airbus and Boeing to offer proposals on how to do it?
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Year 3 pay as an A380 SO would probably pay the same as a VA 777 FO. (With overtime).
http://vipa.asn.au/wp-content/upload...-Agreement.pdf
EXISTING FIRST OFFICERS
Clause 54.1 Virgin Australia expects that all 38 existing First Officers will obtain a command position within the Virgin Australia Group by 30 June 2016. If this does not occur, Virgin Australia will pay each of the remaining 38 First Officers at that time the applicable Captain’s rates (starting at the entry level rate). For any relevant First Officers, these payments will be made from the first full pay period after 30 June 2016 until such time as they obtain a command.
Last edited by Harbour Dweller; 2nd Sep 2019 at 04:14.
Qantas has done this in the past. Ansett 767 Pilots worked in previous rank for a period in the Qantas uniform. They then had to apply for their jobs and join the company on the bottom of the list. I’d imagine with a 2-3 year contract for the EIS phase, and number on the bottom of the list, once they lost their 777 seat, they’d still find suitable seats with a reasonable income elsewhere in the fleet. Year 3 pay as an A380 SO would probably pay the same as a VA 777 FO. (With overtime). A QF 737 FO would be close if you’re working and chasing hours.
Maybe not when you consider there are a large number of VAA B777 FO's being remunerated to Captain salaries.
http://vipa.asn.au/wp-content/upload...-Agreement.pdf
http://vipa.asn.au/wp-content/upload...-Agreement.pdf
EXISTING FIRST OFFICERS
Clause 54.1 Virgin Australia expects that all 38 existing First Officers will obtain a command position within the Virgin Australia Group by 30 June 2016. If this does not occur, Virgin Australia will pay each of the remaining 38 First Officers at that time the applicable Captain’s rates (starting at the entry level rate). For any relevant First Officers, these payments will be
made from the first full pay period after 30 June 2016 until such time as they obtain a command.
Clause 54.1 Virgin Australia expects that all 38 existing First Officers will obtain a command position within the Virgin Australia Group by 30 June 2016. If this does not occur, Virgin Australia will pay each of the remaining 38 First Officers at that time the applicable Captain’s rates (starting at the entry level rate). For any relevant First Officers, these payments will be
made from the first full pay period after 30 June 2016 until such time as they obtain a command.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Sydney Australia
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some time ago a few mates over at Virgin told me that the rear cargo door hinders Virgin Australia’s ability to release, sell or lease back their B-777.
Virgin's decision on ordering the aircraft from Boeing was apparently to opt for smaller rear cargo doors which means (or so I am told) that the 777s cannot take standard international freight pallets.
I assume, if true, this makes them less appealing to other Airlines and Aircraft Leasing companies. Maybe not too suitable for what Qantas is looking to achieve in Project Sunrise?
Certainly, freight features as a supplementary form of income to offset weak passenger loads on flights between Australia and International destinations by carrying large cargo.
Is this true and another factor in Virgins current fiscal stress?
Virgin's decision on ordering the aircraft from Boeing was apparently to opt for smaller rear cargo doors which means (or so I am told) that the 777s cannot take standard international freight pallets.
I assume, if true, this makes them less appealing to other Airlines and Aircraft Leasing companies. Maybe not too suitable for what Qantas is looking to achieve in Project Sunrise?
Certainly, freight features as a supplementary form of income to offset weak passenger loads on flights between Australia and International destinations by carrying large cargo.
Is this true and another factor in Virgins current fiscal stress?
Last edited by Capt Colonial; 2nd Sep 2019 at 11:58.
Qantas' Project Sunrise is about flying SYD-LHR and SYD-JFK direct (ie non-stop for about 20 hours). Are you sure VA's B777's can do that with a viable commercial load? If so why are QF going through the process of getting Airbus and Boeing to offer proposals on how to do it?
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,674
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some of the best ideas originate from the people who actually do the job, but operationally most employees are hamstrung by "cost leadership" management and over arching HR.
Yeah I think you’re dreaming. I don’t think QF need some ****ty old 777’s with no provision for cargo to go onto some routes that would be very freight heavy I imagine (refer old comments about the amount of freight coming out of, or it might have been into, Jo’Burg). Operationally, I doubt they would gain any benefit out of training crews earlier than they need them. It’s just another aircraft.
