Project Sunrise
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Unfortunately not the Orient
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
Received 88 Likes
on
32 Posts
How many posters in this thread, arguing for a NO vote, do you think are provocateurs from other airlines hoping to swoop in when the "New entity" is created? Can we be sure the neigh sayers are actually in QF? After all, they would have a lot to gain from a NO vote.
So we now have the President of AIPA, Neville Chamberlin, advocating for appeasement of the corporate bully. When has that ever worked? It would appear on here that he is aptly assisted by many sycophantic vassals.
If this threat works, when will you actually stand up to the bully? What will it take before you stand up and say enough?
If you don’t stand up now, despite your protestations, you never will.
If this threat works, when will you actually stand up to the bully? What will it take before you stand up and say enough?
If you don’t stand up now, despite your protestations, you never will.
"Here at DL most A350and 777 Captains makes $400,000 to $650,000 per year depending on much you want to work"
These numbers are WAY off, someone is playing with you.
And what makes you think QF in Australia should benchmark DL in the US when formulating pay and conditions.
These numbers are WAY off, someone is playing with you.
And what makes you think QF in Australia should benchmark DL in the US when formulating pay and conditions.
From Hong Kong eh. Says it all.
haha my thoughts exactly. Tony the Tiler in Hong Kong would love to come home is seems.
Was chatting to an ex-QF 767 FO the other day - now an A330/A350 Captain here in HK. As he described QF vs CX:
“Same sh!t, different airline. Cathay continuously undermines T&Cs by unilaterally introducing new contracts for future hires ..... QANTAS just sets up a new airline [Jetstar Intl. Or A350 green fields op]. The end result is reduction in pay & loss of career progression for the incumbents. Australia just gives you the illusion of industrial protections.”
“Same sh!t, different airline. Cathay continuously undermines T&Cs by unilaterally introducing new contracts for future hires ..... QANTAS just sets up a new airline [Jetstar Intl. Or A350 green fields op]. The end result is reduction in pay & loss of career progression for the incumbents. Australia just gives you the illusion of industrial protections.”
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 41
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So we now have the President of AIPA, Neville Chamberlin, advocating for appeasement of the corporate bully. When has that ever worked? It would appear on here that he is aptly assisted by many sycophantic vassals.
If this threat works, when will you actually stand up to the bully? What will it take before you stand up and say enough?
If you don’t stand up now, despite your protestations, you never will.
If this threat works, when will you actually stand up to the bully? What will it take before you stand up and say enough?
If you don’t stand up now, despite your protestations, you never will.
1) Protect jobs
2) Protect conditions
3) Protect pay
Securing the 350 is protecting OUR jobs. Very wise judgement displayed by the president. If you don't agree perhaps you should resign your AIPA membership. Maybe you can try and get AFAP to support you.
Just standing on the sidelines - I retired a few years back after 46 years flying with QF - it seems to me that AIPA needs to seek legal advice from Ron Bartch. Ron is the leading aviation lawyer in Oz so he has clout in any court given that he wrote the text book.
This whole thing makes me glad to be out. Would I really take such a big punt and fly these crazy TOD like 22+ hours?? Maybe when I was young and keen but no way after I grew up. What if it causes massive problems in 10 years? Who knows? I'm not immune to the lure of something new, I loved the long haul flying to BA over Antarctica and the operational problems needing to be solved. Actually I love flying, silly old me!!
This whole thing makes me glad to be out. Would I really take such a big punt and fly these crazy TOD like 22+ hours?? Maybe when I was young and keen but no way after I grew up. What if it causes massive problems in 10 years? Who knows? I'm not immune to the lure of something new, I loved the long haul flying to BA over Antarctica and the operational problems needing to be solved. Actually I love flying, silly old me!!
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Except on the return to land, the 350s are GONE. Finished. Over.
Good lucking negotiating the LH EBA 10 renewal with whats happening in the world now. Pay freezes for everyone. I can just see it coming.
When you're playing poker, it can be a winning move to fold when appropriate. Your comments recommend an all in. Unfortunately an all in on this occasion will destroy mainlines future.
False statements.
You will be paid more to work more flight hours.
Don't want to do the flying? DON'T OPT IN!
Good lucking negotiating the LH EBA 10 renewal with whats happening in the world now. Pay freezes for everyone. I can just see it coming.
When you're playing poker, it can be a winning move to fold when appropriate. Your comments recommend an all in. Unfortunately an all in on this occasion will destroy mainlines future.
False statements.
You will be paid more to work more flight hours.
Don't want to do the flying? DON'T OPT IN!
If there was ever an operation that deserves premium pay, 20.5 hours of ULH stick is it!!
And how much of that 20.5 hours will be spent in the bunk watching movies and sleeping?
And how much of that 20.5 hours will be spent in the bunk watching movies and sleeping?
a. It’s the middle of the day body clock time, or
b. It’s turbulent.
I might be ‘in the bunk’ but I’m still at work and should be duly compensated for being so.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Window Seat
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you don’t like working back of the clock bugger off and find a new career. And if you’re motivated by large money and that offsets the brain frying fatigue then bugger off to China once the flu is over and collect your tax free $400k.
I don’t like how this deal was presented, it’s ****ed. I don’t like that it wasn’t a negotiation at all. I would like to see more dollars on the table, I would like to see the training freeze apply to movements from
CA/FO 787 to CA/FO 350 to maintain an ability to change things up once in a while. I absolutely agree with previous comments that Joyce’s bonus is mental and this $300mil may well end up in management’s pockets if we vote yes.
But where do you think that $300mil is going if we loose this “opportunity” to expand. I can tell you it’s certainly not going in our pockets.
You ever think that management actually want us to vote NO? We would play right into their hands. The perfect excuse to set up a new entity with a roo on the tail gifted by the pilots who couldn’t accept that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: HKG
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The amount of people saying think about your health and vote NO, blah blah blah! Yes 22 hour flights are bad for you. Hell 14 hour flights are bad for aircrew. I personally find 3 pilot 10 hour sectors the worst nodding off on descent in to some sh$thole. Or what about the poor Low Cost jet pilots taking off at 9pm (2 pilot, 2 sectors) and landing back where they started from at 6-7am and having to drive home trying not to nod off and die in a car crash.
One positive I see though is pilots are smarter with their lifestyle. Don’t get maggot drunk when you do a layover, stay close to Australia time if you can, exercise when away. Frankly nobody out there gives a f@:k if you aren’t social even if you want to be, it’s about providing and being a good person for your family.
Lots of Qantas pilots who started in the jet age in the 60s lost their mind a couple years after they retired and died before they got to use their 500k wage and they didn’t even do ULH. I dare say it was more long term alcohol induced. That was what we used to do.
Airline flying is bad for your health FULL STOP but we either accept the future (If ULH doesn’t happen now it will one day) or you just QUIT the industry and find a nice 9-5 job you will hate. Another upside is you won’t waste your time on PPRUNE 😉
One positive I see though is pilots are smarter with their lifestyle. Don’t get maggot drunk when you do a layover, stay close to Australia time if you can, exercise when away. Frankly nobody out there gives a f@:k if you aren’t social even if you want to be, it’s about providing and being a good person for your family.
Lots of Qantas pilots who started in the jet age in the 60s lost their mind a couple years after they retired and died before they got to use their 500k wage and they didn’t even do ULH. I dare say it was more long term alcohol induced. That was what we used to do.
Airline flying is bad for your health FULL STOP but we either accept the future (If ULH doesn’t happen now it will one day) or you just QUIT the industry and find a nice 9-5 job you will hate. Another upside is you won’t waste your time on PPRUNE 😉
The amount of people saying think about your health and vote NO, blah blah blah! Yes 22 hour flights are bad for you. Hell 14 hour flights are bad for aircrew. I personally find 3 pilot 10 hour sectors the worst nodding off on descent in to some sh$thole. Or what about the poor Low Cost jet pilots taking off at 9pm (2 pilot, 2 sectors) and landing back where they started from at 6-7am and having to drive home trying not to nod off and die in a car crash.
One positive I see though is pilots are smarter with their lifestyle. Don’t get maggot drunk when you do a layover, stay close to Australia time if you can, exercise when away. Frankly nobody out there gives a f@:k if you aren’t social even if you want to be, it’s about providing and being a good person for your family.
Lots of Qantas pilots who started in the jet age in the 60s lost their mind a couple years after they retired and died before they got to use their 500k wage and they didn’t even do ULH. I dare say it was more long term alcohol induced. That was what we used to do.
Airline flying is bad for your health FULL STOP but we either accept the future (If ULH doesn’t happen now it will one day) or you just QUIT the industry and find a nice 9-5 job you will hate. Another upside is you won’t waste your time on PPRUNE 😉
One positive I see though is pilots are smarter with their lifestyle. Don’t get maggot drunk when you do a layover, stay close to Australia time if you can, exercise when away. Frankly nobody out there gives a f@:k if you aren’t social even if you want to be, it’s about providing and being a good person for your family.
Lots of Qantas pilots who started in the jet age in the 60s lost their mind a couple years after they retired and died before they got to use their 500k wage and they didn’t even do ULH. I dare say it was more long term alcohol induced. That was what we used to do.
Airline flying is bad for your health FULL STOP but we either accept the future (If ULH doesn’t happen now it will one day) or you just QUIT the industry and find a nice 9-5 job you will hate. Another upside is you won’t waste your time on PPRUNE 😉
Its all about how you manage it. Do some exercise and eat well and all the above.
The days of getting hammered are over. Enjoy your vino alfresco down at Chelsea but don’t write yourself off.
Maybe those mortality stats for pilots will improve with a bit of the above?
Also the EA has many protections if your not fit to fly.
Use them!
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 41
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The very worst thing you can do to your brain is work when you are tired, work back of clock, shift work, fry your brain for 20.5 hours at FL390, end up in a **** hotel, drink on your layover, only to expose your body to it all again on the return leg and to create all this carnage to one’s mind/body AND give away 300 million bucks for the privilege is absolutely crazy in the extreme. What’s your health worth? When you die, they wipe you off Workday in a heart beat and you will be forgotten. They don’t give a sh#t about you. This is a no brainer NO vote if you value your health. If there was ever an operation that deserves premium pay, 20.5 hours of ULH stick is it!! But maybe Normanton is right, it now appears the ar#e lickers could get up. Time will tell but the email from AIPA president was very disappointing. Is that what it takes to get a seat in QF pilot management??
Your probably one of those pilots who drop the line "see you down at 5pm for drinks". Despite it being 6am in your local time. Learn how to control your mind and health my friend. Your a pilot for god sake, not a 8am-5pm office worker.
Get a grip
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: HKG
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Try skipping the grog on the next layover or drink less!
Nice article on NBC just out warning about daylight saving on Sunday.
There are also a list of handy hints to help
deal with the problem.
An hour lost may not seem like much, but it’s just enough change to be potentially disruptive and possibly even pose health risks. Studies have found that fatal accidents are slightly more likely to occur on the Monday after DST goes into effect, as is the chance of heart attack and that of ischemic stroke.
The most common problem associated with DST though, is fatigue and just feeling off. This, as Beth Malow, MD, professor and director of Sleep Disorders Division at Vanderbilt Kennedy Center, explains, comes down to the fact that “our circadian clock gets dysregulated. Some people are more sensitive than others based on genetics, age (younger people usually adapt better), morning versus evening types “
The most common problem associated with DST though, is fatigue and just feeling off. This, as Beth Malow, MD, professor and director of Sleep Disorders Division at Vanderbilt Kennedy Center, explains, comes down to the fact that “our circadian clock gets dysregulated. Some people are more sensitive than others based on genetics, age (younger people usually adapt better), morning versus evening types “
deal with the problem.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: australia
Age: 74
Posts: 907
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You lot of Sanctimonious , pontificating , millennial keyboard ,schoolgirls must be an absolute hoot to fly with !
I would cringe just thinking about having to spend 1 hour , let alone 20+ hours on a flight deck listening to your lecturing ,superior than thou diatribe on how everybody else should be more like you and your vegan tofu toasting ,lotus eating ,wheatgrass swilling , Marxist Millennial crap!
Will be interesting listening to your ilk in a decade or two when you have a few life skill ground into you with this ULR crap.
The most interesting part I found when I flew was the meeting down in the lobby at 5 having a few beers, heading out for a meal and actually getting to know your fellow crew members . There is a novel concept , getting a measure of the person sitting beside you for the next 16 hours .
I must admit I probably learned more through this type of personal interaction both professionally and personally than I would have if all I did was look at myself in the mirror at the gym whilst swiping through grinder that you lot appear to fit the profile for !
Good luck , you’re going to need it .
I would cringe just thinking about having to spend 1 hour , let alone 20+ hours on a flight deck listening to your lecturing ,superior than thou diatribe on how everybody else should be more like you and your vegan tofu toasting ,lotus eating ,wheatgrass swilling , Marxist Millennial crap!
Will be interesting listening to your ilk in a decade or two when you have a few life skill ground into you with this ULR crap.
The most interesting part I found when I flew was the meeting down in the lobby at 5 having a few beers, heading out for a meal and actually getting to know your fellow crew members . There is a novel concept , getting a measure of the person sitting beside you for the next 16 hours .
I must admit I probably learned more through this type of personal interaction both professionally and personally than I would have if all I did was look at myself in the mirror at the gym whilst swiping through grinder that you lot appear to fit the profile for !
Good luck , you’re going to need it .
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 41
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You lot of Sanctimonious , pontificating , millennial keyboard ,schoolgirls must be an absolute hoot to fly with !
I would cringe just thinking about having to spend 1 hour , let alone 20+ hours on a flight deck listening to your lecturing ,superior than thou diatribe on how everybody else should be more like you and your vegan tofu toasting ,lotus eating ,wheatgrass swilling , Marxist Millennial crap!
Will be interesting listening to your ilk in a decade or two when you have a few life skill ground into you with this ULR crap.
The most interesting part I found when I flew was the meeting down in the lobby at 5 having a few beers, heading out for a meal and actually getting to know your fellow crew members . There is a novel concept , getting a measure of the person sitting beside you for the next 16 hours .
I must admit I probably learned more through this type of personal interaction both professionally and personally than I would have if all I did was look at myself in the mirror at the gym whilst swiping through grinder that you lot appear to fit the profile for !
Good luck , you’re going to need it .
I would cringe just thinking about having to spend 1 hour , let alone 20+ hours on a flight deck listening to your lecturing ,superior than thou diatribe on how everybody else should be more like you and your vegan tofu toasting ,lotus eating ,wheatgrass swilling , Marxist Millennial crap!
Will be interesting listening to your ilk in a decade or two when you have a few life skill ground into you with this ULR crap.
The most interesting part I found when I flew was the meeting down in the lobby at 5 having a few beers, heading out for a meal and actually getting to know your fellow crew members . There is a novel concept , getting a measure of the person sitting beside you for the next 16 hours .
I must admit I probably learned more through this type of personal interaction both professionally and personally than I would have if all I did was look at myself in the mirror at the gym whilst swiping through grinder that you lot appear to fit the profile for !
Good luck , you’re going to need it .
Let me ask you this. Have you bought enough toilet paper yet?
Your not one of those LHS pilots who whinge about needing to push on a few more years because your 3rd X wife took your super are you?
Isn't it funny how the NO voters turn this discussion into something really personal. They can't give you a solid answer to your questions. Thats because they know the reasoning doesn't stand up to the facts. Keep the personal attacks coming. It's hilarious.
Perhaps you should heed the warnings of the AIPA President & VP.
Last edited by normanton; 7th Mar 2020 at 22:52.
