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Old 6th Mar 2020, 03:20
  #1661 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wingspar
Have a look at the bold in page 4 of the company document emailed today.
Cheers. Ok so that clears that up, 3 pilot up to HKG etc pay is the same as the 747 for CA and FO and SO will be on the new scale but would have those rules applied to their pay rate.

Originally Posted by dr dre
Well the latest email from AIPA makes it quite clear.

They’re not happy with how it has happened, but it’s pretty obvious that outsourcing will happen if a No vote occurs. Any external contact is likely to be inferior to what’s being offered at the moment in both pay and conditions.
Assuming that is consistent with the view of the legal advice that I’m sure they’ve sort at this point. It makes sense as much as I wish it didn’t.

”Fair Work”
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 03:48
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Originally Posted by FlexibleResponse
https://infosurhoy.com/news/airbus-d...after-boeings/


What are the chances that Qantas will delay ordering A350s, with the announcement to be delayed until after the vote is taken?

Zero. The deal is done, that is plainly clear. This is a hiccup, and will be gone by 2023.

What the pilot body has to realise is that in order to fight the company we actually need to stay in the fight. A No vote 'to stick it to the company' will actually do the opposite. The 350 flying will be offered externally on less money that is currently being offered to us and will be fully subscribed.

Sh1t happens, we grit our teeth and say 'well played' (you slimy pack of #$@%s) and plan our return salvo.
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 04:55
  #1663 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dragon man
Would you vote yes without an iron clad guarantee that those aircraft are coming regardless? I wouldn’t because quite simply you can lose what we have and not even get the 350s.
So true, now more than ever is a reason to sit on our hands. Pilots are unable to see through this virus and make a decision. Either QF delay the vote or as dragon says, guarantee the aircraft (which we know they can’t do in this business) or vote NO. It’s time to call ‘unstable’ so let’s go around Vote NO and have a second go when the WX calms down a bit.
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 05:03
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The execs will use this situation to their advantage, they’ve probably already gone back to Airbus (hell, Boeing too) with IATAs latest figures in hand asking for a redeal. If neither parties are willing to budge on price Sunrise could very much be DOA!
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 06:42
  #1665 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A little birdie
Nothing is lost if the A350s don’t turn up.

The proposed S/O pay scales only apply if the A350s turn up, and only apply when they start recruiting S/Os for the A350.

Avagoodone.
I thought you were on leave...
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 09:01
  #1666 (permalink)  
 
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He is. I’m not. Avagoodone.
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 10:32
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I’ll say this again. No board of directors WILL sign off on a multi billion dollar order in the current climate with every airline retreating given the Covid 19 BS asking staff to take leave etc etc....

Anyone who thinks otherwise is completely on the Cool Aide!

Stand up to the bully. And let them go...f@@rk they called our bluff. Once you give this YES to them, EVERY EBA is screwed and everyone will thank long haul for screwing it. Even Jetstar guys had the balls to take PIA....
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 11:06
  #1668 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flava Saver
I’ll say this again. No board of directors WILL sign off on a multi billion dollar order in the current climate with every airline retreating given the Covid 19 BS asking staff to take leave etc etc....

Anyone who thinks otherwise is completely on the Cool Aide!
Vote No, the board doesn’t proceed with sunrise, and in 6 months after winter is over and the Coronavirus has subsided (it won’t last forever you know) the board then makes the decision to approve Sunrise, and they also announce the formation of an external crewing company to crew them, as that’s exactly what they stated prior to the vote.

Don’t say you weren’t warned......
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 11:18
  #1669 (permalink)  
 
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Why is anyone considering more work for less money when everyone.knows Alan’s pay will only increase and the bonus pool will only increase?

Despite what you all may think, it IS possible to survive on just $10m a year (ie more than a 50% pay CUT) - without giving away any conditions at all!

ULH flying as well as back of clock 2 man flying is absolutely the worst combination of a working life it’s possible to imagine.

Why would -anyone- want to do that? Aside from taking a pay cut so Alan gets a commensurate pay rise??
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 11:30
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Because AJ's pay has got F@#k all to do with our future. And you know that.
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 11:32
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Originally Posted by V-Jet
Why is anyone considering more work for less money when everyone.knows Alan’s pay will only increase and the bonus pool will only increase?

Despite what you all may think, it IS possible to survive on just $10m a year (ie more than a 50% pay CUT) - without giving away any conditions at all!

ULH flying as well as back of clock 2 man flying is absolutely the worst combination of a working life it’s possible to imagine.

Why would -anyone- want to do that? Aside from taking a pay cut so Alan gets a commensurate pay rise??
will you be forced to do this?
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 12:01
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Originally Posted by dr dre
Vote No, the board doesn’t proceed with sunrise, and in 6 months after winter is over and the Coronavirus has subsided (it won’t last forever you know) the board then makes the decision to approve Sunrise, and they also announce the formation of an external crewing company to crew them, as that’s exactly what they stated prior to the vote.

Don’t say you weren’t warned......
Oh dear! Another person addicted...
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 12:33
  #1673 (permalink)  
 
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"ULH flying as well as back of clock 2 man flying is absolutely the worst combination of a working life it’s possible to imagine."

So let's get this straight - you won't fly ULH whatever the money? Or is it (just) possible that enough $$$ will lead to an adjustment in your life/work balance??
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 16:27
  #1674 (permalink)  
 
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2 crew back of clock PLUS ULH is the problem I have! Either is bad enough, combined it’s atrocious.

I keep going back to the point that for all intents and purposes pay will remain the same - just that the people doing the work (pilots) won’t be getting it.
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 19:21
  #1675 (permalink)  
 
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I would suggest that anyone who thinks the corona virus will be over in a few months is naive.

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/wor...rus-cases-june
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 20:44
  #1676 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dragon man
I would suggest that anyone who thinks the corona virus will be over in a few months is naive.

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/wor...rus-cases-june
Hmm an artical written by someone with a character name from Fightclub. Very credible. Here is a quote from Wikipedia about the website

Over time, Zero Hedge expanded into non-financial analysis,[c] advocating what CNN Business called an anti-establishment and conspiratorial worldview, and which has been associated with alt-right views,[4][11] and a pro-Russian bias.
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 20:51
  #1677 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=dragon man;10705236]Rather than play the man play the ball, it’s factual with numbers please refute the numbers. The numbers quoted were from the Japanese Bank Nomura.If you think it’s crap have a look at this and the increases especially in Europe. If you chose to bury your head in the sand that’s not my problem
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 20:58
  #1678 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by V-Jet
2 crew back of clock PLUS ULH is the problem I have! Either is bad enough, combined it’s atrocious.

I keep going back to the point that for all intents and purposes pay will remain the same - just that the people doing the work (pilots) won’t be getting it.
will you be forced to do this flying?
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 21:05
  #1679 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=dragon man;10705239]
Originally Posted by dragon man
Rather than play the man play the ball, it’s factual with numbers please refute the numbers. The numbers quoted were from the Japanese Bank Nomura.If you think it’s crap have a look at this and the increases especially in Europe. If you chose to bury your head in the sand that’s not my problem
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 21:09
  #1680 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dragon man
Would you vote yes without an iron clad guarantee that those aircraft are coming regardless? I wouldn’t because quite simply you can lose what we have and not even get the 350s.
dragon_man its pretty abysmal that you are still claiming the 350's won't come with a YES vote. It's been confirmed multiple times in webinars, emails, and media correspondence. Even Allan confirms it in the interview someone linked above. If you are after a guaranteed scope clause - forget it. Even someone with your distinguish knows that won't ever happen in a Qantas EBA.

The virus will be short-term. Sunrise is 3 years away. Stop with your ridiculous reasoning for a no vote when it can't be any further from the truth.

It's great you will be retiring soon. But don't post scaremongering and false facts on here in the hopes to scare other pilots into your delusional reasons for voting NO!
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