Project Sunrise
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Sydney Australia
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You mean the recent COM election where as little as 15% of the AIPA membership voting for a candidate was enough to get on the COM and where even the candidate with the highest vote only got 28% of the membership's vote? Not exactly a massive mandate for anything iMHO.
This doesn’t discredit those incumbent members, already elected on a different term who may also side industrially /politically with the newly elected representatives.
AIPA elections are always traditionally low numerical returns (I think the highest return was IW’s led ARG quite some years ago) therein I would suggest an implicit mandate (by any margin) exists and the new collective majority committee now have the sanctioned ability to change industrial course as desired or determined.
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This is an awful deal. It's really just a threat its so poor.
Fly 2 variants for free. Get frozen for 5 years. Get no fatigue compensation for the worst flying you can imagine.
So bad in fact that it is currently illegal to fly for so bloody long .No pilot i fly with wants to do it. Especially if your not getting paid or compensated for how its going to completely F$#% your body. I would not trust a word NS says. Getting F11 and a bonus if a deal gets up to try to lessen conditions for fellow pilots.That part is as bad as the deal. Even the company pilots and angels on here can not make this look ok.
Poor pay and no protections for the Sunrise part.
Sunrise is a shot duck anyway. This is just a way to try to finish off the LH contract for the A330/A380. A380 Replacement admitted in the webinar.
They are even trying to silence dissenters like WM on Qrewroom it is that bad a deal.
Fly 2 variants for free. Get frozen for 5 years. Get no fatigue compensation for the worst flying you can imagine.
So bad in fact that it is currently illegal to fly for so bloody long .No pilot i fly with wants to do it. Especially if your not getting paid or compensated for how its going to completely F$#% your body. I would not trust a word NS says. Getting F11 and a bonus if a deal gets up to try to lessen conditions for fellow pilots.That part is as bad as the deal. Even the company pilots and angels on here can not make this look ok.
Poor pay and no protections for the Sunrise part.
Sunrise is a shot duck anyway. This is just a way to try to finish off the LH contract for the A330/A380. A380 Replacement admitted in the webinar.
They are even trying to silence dissenters like WM on Qrewroom it is that bad a deal.
No one I talk to wants anything to do with Project Sunrise in its current form and offer!
No pilot i fly with wants to do it.
However, as the others have said, that is contingent on putting in place suitable conditions (crew complement, crew rest, fatigue mitigation, additional pay above 330/787 rates, etc.)
Join Date: Jan 2003
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I think this "Sunrise" remains hypothetical for the moment. Qantas just rejected the offers from B and A, asked them to grap the pencil again to make a better offer…
interesting from investors day.
Pilot with most to gain if Project Sunrise goes ahead: On the matter of a new enterprise agreement with pilots, La Spina said the discussions with the pilots’ union was about productivity improvements.
“In no way are we asking any of our pilots to take a pay cut. We’re not doing that,” La Spina said.
“We are saying, ‘yes you might have to be more productive to get the same pay’. We’re not going to apologise for that. We’ve been doing that since we started transformation.”
Further, La Spina said pilots had the most to gain from the growth in the fleet that will follow from the introduction of new aircraft for these ultra long-haul flights.
La Spina noted that up until the arrival of the 787-9 in the Qantas fleet in 2017 the airline had first and second officers that were unable to achieve promotion because the captains above them were not retiring and not leaving the company.
“It is only through growth that you unlock new growth opportunities, promotion opportunities for our people,” La Spina said.
“If we get growth aircraft that means we need more pilots to fly. More pilots to fly means we get more, let’s call it, from the street, which create a ripple effect through the organisation as you start to promote pilots.
“A promotion for a pilot is the biggest payrise they are going to get in their career.”
“In no way are we asking any of our pilots to take a pay cut. We’re not doing that,” La Spina said.
“We are saying, ‘yes you might have to be more productive to get the same pay’. We’re not going to apologise for that. We’ve been doing that since we started transformation.”
Further, La Spina said pilots had the most to gain from the growth in the fleet that will follow from the introduction of new aircraft for these ultra long-haul flights.
La Spina noted that up until the arrival of the 787-9 in the Qantas fleet in 2017 the airline had first and second officers that were unable to achieve promotion because the captains above them were not retiring and not leaving the company.
“It is only through growth that you unlock new growth opportunities, promotion opportunities for our people,” La Spina said.
“If we get growth aircraft that means we need more pilots to fly. More pilots to fly means we get more, let’s call it, from the street, which create a ripple effect through the organisation as you start to promote pilots.
“A promotion for a pilot is the biggest payrise they are going to get in their career.”
“In no way are we asking any of our pilots to take a pay cut. We’re not doing that,” La Spina said.
“We are saying, ‘yes you might have to be more productive to get the same pay’. We’re not going to apologise for that. We’ve been doing that since we started transformation.”
“We are saying, ‘yes you might have to be more productive to get the same pay’. We’re not going to apologise for that. We’ve been doing that since we started transformation.”
Join Date: Jun 2015
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Working more for the same pay is a pay cut.
Doing an extra endorsement for free is a pay cut.
Flying a fatiguing Sunrise mission for 23 hours with less flying credits is a pay cut. Worse as it is a health cut.
Getting a massive B scale as an SO is a pay cut.
Enough promotions with retirements.Promotions are available now anyway. Sunrise will not be a growth type. Getting a promotion to get marginally more reward for far more work is a pay cut.The promotion as the only reward for less money.
Numbers are dodgy. No guarantees.History of continued lies. Sorry Tino. It is a PAY CUT
Doing an extra endorsement for free is a pay cut.
Flying a fatiguing Sunrise mission for 23 hours with less flying credits is a pay cut. Worse as it is a health cut.
Getting a massive B scale as an SO is a pay cut.
Enough promotions with retirements.Promotions are available now anyway. Sunrise will not be a growth type. Getting a promotion to get marginally more reward for far more work is a pay cut.The promotion as the only reward for less money.
Numbers are dodgy. No guarantees.History of continued lies. Sorry Tino. It is a PAY CUT
Working more for the same pay is a pay cut.
Doing an extra endorsement for free is a pay cut.
Flying a fatiguing Sunrise mission for 23 hours with less flying credits is a pay cut. Worse as it is a health cut.
Getting a massive B scale as an SO is a pay cut.
Enough promotions with retirements.Promotions are available now anyway. Sunrise will not be a growth type. Getting a promotion to get marginally more reward for far more work is a pay cut.The promotion as the only reward for less money.
Numbers are dodgy. No guarantees.History of continued lies. Sorry Tino. It is a PAY CUT
Doing an extra endorsement for free is a pay cut.
Flying a fatiguing Sunrise mission for 23 hours with less flying credits is a pay cut. Worse as it is a health cut.
Getting a massive B scale as an SO is a pay cut.
Enough promotions with retirements.Promotions are available now anyway. Sunrise will not be a growth type. Getting a promotion to get marginally more reward for far more work is a pay cut.The promotion as the only reward for less money.
Numbers are dodgy. No guarantees.History of continued lies. Sorry Tino. It is a PAY CUT
Qantas are not making pilots wear special headbands monitoring brainwaves and pissing into Laboratory bottles because the Sunrise flight is easy.
It's exceeding the limits of the human body and Aviation law. If the ex AIPA president tells me everyone prefers to do that flying anyway and are happy to do it for less then I'm certainly not seeing any willing pilots putting their hands up.
It is a pay cut.
CASA won’t agree with anything unless AIPA are on board.
That is the pilots are on board.
You need to come up with something substantially better Mr. La Spina. A lot better!
You are running out of time.
It would be a shame to see the sky high share price take a hit with a failure of this size project.
That is the pilots are on board.
You need to come up with something substantially better Mr. La Spina. A lot better!
You are running out of time.
It would be a shame to see the sky high share price take a hit with a failure of this size project.
CASA won’t agree with anything unless AIPA are on board.
That is the pilots are on board.
That is the pilots are on board.
That is not to say they aren’t listening, more that AIPA is the only contrary voice they are hearing amongst a great deal of ‘positive’ Sunrise communication.
La Spina noted that up until the arrival of the 787-9 in the Qantas fleet in 2017 the airline had first and second officers that were unable to achieve promotion because the captains above them were not retiring and not leaving the company.
No, the airline had first and second officers that were unable to achieve promotion because the airline had been shrunk, routes were dropped, and resources were sent elsewhere. Pilots have always had their careers, then retired and been replaced by other pilots. To suggest that there was some sort of new phenomenon of captains not retiring is bull**** of the highest order.
Working more for the same pay is a pay cut.
Doing an extra endorsement for free is a pay cut.
Flying a fatiguing Sunrise mission for 23 hours with less flying credits is a pay cut. Worse as it is a health cut.
Getting a massive B scale as an SO is a pay cut.
Enough promotions with retirements.Promotions are available now anyway. Sunrise will not be a growth type. Getting a promotion to get marginally more reward for far more work is a pay cut.The promotion as the only reward for less money.
Numbers are dodgy. No guarantees.History of continued lies. Sorry Tino. It is a PAY CUT
Doing an extra endorsement for free is a pay cut.
Flying a fatiguing Sunrise mission for 23 hours with less flying credits is a pay cut. Worse as it is a health cut.
Getting a massive B scale as an SO is a pay cut.
Enough promotions with retirements.Promotions are available now anyway. Sunrise will not be a growth type. Getting a promotion to get marginally more reward for far more work is a pay cut.The promotion as the only reward for less money.
Numbers are dodgy. No guarantees.History of continued lies. Sorry Tino. It is a PAY CUT
Twenty years ago maybe. Discussions with those at AIPA who are regularly dealing with CASA suggest otherwise.
That is not to say they aren’t listening, more that AIPA is the only contrary voice they are hearing amongst a great deal of ‘positive’ Sunrise communication.
That is not to say they aren’t listening, more that AIPA is the only contrary voice they are hearing amongst a great deal of ‘positive’ Sunrise communication.
Three research flights where the data is arguably invalid.
No precedent anywhere for extreme TOD and flight times.
A complete lack of any evidence anywhere.
Will CASA agree to this world first in regulatory limits?
I know, as well as others in the industry, that FRMS regulation is a game of darts....blindfolded!
No one knows anything. Completely subjective void of anything scientific.
An ounce of doubt and anyone with a sound mind in CASA will run like a startled reindeer come Christmas time.